2015 Pistons draft (poll)

[MrBigShot]

Nah, I'm definitely not trying to justify them taking him at 10. Didn't think he should've gone that high back then, and still don't. But that's a matter of talent...I probably could've used a better example but my point was that supposed attitude problems on prospects don't always end up being as legitimate as people say sometimes.

And I haven't watched enough to say definitively, but I think Hezonja's problems off the ball have more to do with effort and lack of discipline rather than simply not having the tools/athletic ability to hang. Those can both be addressed.

[whitehops]

personally I don't even factor in off-court things when I evaluate prospects. the only thing one would have to go off of was reports and it is near impossible to gauge anything accurately that way. teams have psychologists that listen/participate in the interviews and they would determine what the prospect's mental makeup is.

my advice would be to just stick to what you see/read about their on-court ability.

That's unforunate as SVG has said he values high character. I am sure the rockets will rethink their approach after Royce White fiasco. Prospects are coached to pass character evals and interviews and media sessions. As that can be the difference between 1st and 2nd round pick. The fact that he's known to check out defensively, but is also known to get after teammates, makes me think he's a hypocrite. You must lead by example. When you combine the character reports with, the fact he's been playing against Euro comp, he doesn't show much ability to create his shot, he's not as appealing. Especially in this draft with other prospects at his position who's concerns are more development driven and have been playing against comp more similar to the NBA style.

if I was an NBA GM I would factor character very highly and think it might be the single most underrated aspect of prospects. but the fact is that in my current situation I have very limited knowledge about the prospects' mental makeup, and I don't want to judge them based off of some reports (because reports have never been wrong, right?) or what I see tape. if I judged players like kawhi or Duncan it would look they like didn't care about basketball at all.

so for me personally, I just stick to what I see on tape.

[Blkbrd671]

if I was an NBA GM I would factor character very highly and think it might be the single most underrated aspect of prospects. but the fact is that in my current situation I have very limited knowledge about the prospects' mental makeup, and I don't want to judge them based off of some reports (because reports have never been wrong, right?) or what I see tape. if I judged players like kawhi or Duncan it would look they like didn't care about basketball at all.

so for me personally, I just stick to what I see on tape.

My problem is that none of these character reports are being contested and as matter of fact his proponents are trying to make it seem like a good thing, ie endorsing it. As i repeated, my main concern is that mentally he checks out of games, and that's on film, and further more the reports of him getting on teammates. At 19, that should be concerning, or can be chalked up to youth development. If we are going to punish Oubre for checking out of games, then why aren't we punishing Hez? cuz he's from Euro!?

[Blkbrd671]

Nah, I'm definitely not trying to justify them taking him at 10. Didn't think he should've gone that high back then, and still don't. But that's a matter of talent...I probably could've used a better example but my point was that supposed attitude problems on prospects don't always end up being as legitimate as people say sometimes.

Ya probably a poor example in Rivers, also i dn't really remember him having that big of Character issues. But that's another discussion. I normally don't mind players with a edge and i posted here that our team lacks that attitude to never back down. My concern though isn't Hez attitude but mindset. Its okay to be confident in yourself and abilities and also to expect teh best out of your teammates each night. My problem is that in his head he thinks its okay to mouth off but not lead by example (ie defense). While yes this isn't something that is completely un-fixable and a deal breaker, it is when you consider other prospects available on his same tier in the top 10 with no reports of character issues , are more physically mature day 1 and actual positive relationships with our current players. Why would you go Hez route? High risk same reward makes little sense.

And I haven't watched enough to say definitively, but I think Hezonja's problems off the ball have more to do with effort and lack of discipline rather than simply not having the tools/athletic ability to hang. Those can both be addressed.

Hez is very much capable of fixing most of his weaknesses , however from a physical standpoint, he's goign to have to get a lot stronger. Something that other SF prospects at #8 already have. i have more confidence that SJ will develop more range on his 3 than i have of Hez developing a defensive mindset and technique.

[Pharaoh]

What exactly are the character issues? What's been seen or heard about Mario that is such a turn off?

I'm starting my scouting this weekend so might as well get him out if the way first.

From what I've seen/read so far Johnson is my pick simply due to defensive potential

A 19 year old player that is known to check out on Defense, yelling at his teammates to play harder.

As long as they're taking their own advice I've got no problem with players telling team mates to play harder.

[/quote]Its funny how we value offense so highly, when the NBA is a 2 way game and teams that contend typically have good defense as oppose to high power offense.[/quote]

I'm the dude that wants to sign Aminu in the off-season so you don't have to preach to me about defense and how important that side of the ball is.

Having said that, SJ is much more than a potentially great defender. He's versatile, his physical attributes are unique for his position, his offensive game is not as further along, however he definitely can score the ball, and is increasing his offensive skill set. Also high character and relationship with our core players already.

I've stated numerous times that based on what I've seen/read/heard thus far Johnson is my pick.

Just really wanted something concrete on the Mario "character" issues and to be honest no one is coming up with much of anything, at least not enough for me to put a black line through his name.

Yes he's young. Yes he's not a finished product. His D is his weakness, like a lot of prospects. He wants his team mates to work harder - which is great if he's willing to take his own advice.

Euro or not don't matter to me.

[bkseven]

Pretty sure KCP gonna be nothing more than a 2nd or 3rd string SG in his career. So while SG is not a "glaring need," it is still a position of need. Booker's jumpshot looks a lot more smooth than KCP's.

Bump. Should have picked booker.

[Todd3]

Pretty sure KCP gonna be nothing more than a 2nd or 3rd string SG in his career. So while SG is not a "glaring need," it is still a position of need. Booker's jumpshot looks a lot more smooth than KCP's.

Bump. Should have picked booker.

I liked Booker too, but SJ could end up being our SG as well and has shown just as much potential (not as a shooter, but overall). Don't get the point of this anyways when the draft is over and we can't pick Booker.

Would make for an interesting trade topic though. With SJ going to college in ARI and Booker being from MI. I'd rather see what Stanley can do first before going there though. He is only playing 20 mpg and Booker only 12 mpg. Too little sample to draw any conclusions either way right now. Booker's shooting would definitely help, but Johnson is 67% from the right corner himself so he is showing potential from 3 too. We just need to have him taking more from there and less from the front. He is only 6-37 from the front. Makes no sense why Stan has him taking so many from there instead of the right corner. Poor coaching in my opinion and I don't think Stan is doing a very good job developing him in general. Always yelling at him after good games, and then seems like he is over thinking the next game and can never build any confidence from it. He needs to just let him play through his rookie mistakes and learn from it through experience. Let him feel good after a good game for a change. Gotta give young players room to grow.

[Pharaoh]

SJ is exactly what this team required in every possible way.

Give him time

[El Chivo]

Booker looks amazing. Stanley doesn't. Hope he gets better.

[princeofpalace]

Pretty sure KCP gonna be nothing more than a 2nd or 3rd string SG in his career. So while SG is not a "glaring need," it is still a position of need. Booker's jumpshot looks a lot more smooth than KCP's.

Bump. Should have picked booker.

Way too soon to write off SJ. That said, I had Booker ahead of SJ on my board and still prefer him. He's looked great in his limited PT. The next Klay Thompson IMO. We def would look better with that type of shooting but I understand why SVG went with SJ given that he can play the 3 and the 2 while Booker is just a 2.

[DocRI]

While I typically hate it when old threads get bumped like this, there's actually an interesting point to be made by this one ... it's just a point no one has brought up yet. Yes, hindsight is 20/20 and all, but only NINE PEOPLE originally voted to draft Porzingis at #8. Think about that for a second, knowing what we know now — prior to the draft, the vast majority of voters would have PASSED on Porzingis ... AT NUMBER EIGHT!!! I get that this was bumped by a Booker fan looking to troll SJ fans, but really, it's a well-deserved troll to ALL of us except for those 9 voters who picked Kristaps (and for the record, I apparently voted for Hezonja, so that includes me as well!).

Just a little "humble pie" for most of us to share and something to think about whenever opinions get so strong as we debate players and prospects.

[bkseven]

Pretty sure KCP gonna be nothing more than a 2nd or 3rd string SG in his career. So while SG is not a "glaring need," it is still a position of need. Booker's jumpshot looks a lot more smooth than KCP's.

Bump. Should have picked booker.

I liked Booker too, but SJ could end up being our SG as well and has shown just as much potential (not as a shooter, but overall). Don't get the point of this anyways when the draft is over and we can't pick Booker.

Would make for an interesting trade topic though. With SJ going to college in ARI and Booker being from MI. I'd rather see what Stanley can do first before going there though. He is only playing 20 mpg and Booker only 12 mpg. Too little sample to draw any conclusions either way right now. Booker's shooting would definitely help, but Johnson is 67% from the right corner himself so he is showing potential from 3 too. We just need to have him taking more from there and less from the front. He is only 6-37 from the front. Makes no sense why Stan has him taking so many from there instead of the right corner. Poor coaching in my opinion and I don't think Stan is doing a very good job developing him in general. Always yelling at him after good games, and then seems like he is over thinking the next game and can never build any confidence from it. He needs to just let him play through his rookie mistakes and learn from it through experience. Let him feel good after a good game for a change. Gotta give young players room to grow.

Am I the only one who thinks SJ's jumper is a little flat. I'm fine with him developing at the SF position.

[Montanabadboy]

While I typically hate it when old threads get bumped like this, there's actually an interesting point to be made by this one ... it's just a point no one has brought up yet. Yes, hindsight is 20/20 and all, but only NINE PEOPLE originally voted to draft Porzingis at #8. Think about that for a second, knowing what we know now — prior to the draft, the vast majority of voters would have PASSED on Porzingis ... AT NUMBER EIGHT!!! I get that this was bumped by a Booker fan looking to troll SJ fans, but really, it's a well-deserved troll to ALL of us except for those 9 voters who picked Kristaps (and for the record, I apparently voted for Hezonja, so that includes me as well!).

Just a little "humble pie" for most of us to share and something to think about whenever opinions get so strong as we debate players and prospects.

That's true, I remember being so torn on Porzingis leading up to the draft. So little was known about him and how many times have we seen these skinny big men get eaten alive in the NBA? It's fun to look back now, but at the time, I'm glad we weren't the ones who had to make the call on him.

[Kilo]

I mentioned in the PHX vs Detroit game thread I really liked Booker. Kid is so smooth and so young still. And he was a local boy.

Booker with his shooting, while working against KCP every day in practice - man, that would have been nice. Stanley will never be great at anything - jack of all, master of none type. We should have took the elite skill and hopes to build the rest. Booker's shooting is exactly what this team needs.

That being said, attitude was a big selling point I believe. Booker is sorta quiet, whereas Stanley is all confidence and swagger. I think Stan wanted a peer to Dre who could drive him to be great (this is the first season Dre isn't the youngest person on the team).