Game 27: Detroit Pistons (14-12) vs. Boston Celtics (14-11) - 7:30 PM ET

[zeebneeb]

A win and no post from Maker. Wonder if that's a coincidence. I don't think he ever post in the threads when they win, well unless of course they're down by 12 or more in the fourth and he is saying they suck we lose and they comeback and win.

Alot of posters were like that. Prince "pop" has been M.I.A since the Pistons have played well. Maybe at the Bucks board following Moose around?

[joedumars1]

A win and no post from Maker. Wonder if that's a coincidence. I don't think he ever post in the threads when they win, well unless of course they're down by 12 or more in the fourth and he is saying they suck we lose and they comeback and win.

Alot of posters were like that. Prince "pop" has been M.I.A since the Pistons have played well. Maybe at the Bucks board following Moose around?

True. At least when he/she post it isn't this team sucks. It might be pretty crazy thought process, but at least has something besides this team sucks.

[Han Solo]

Reggie has been great for us.. He's got to be close to all-star level.. How's he comparing to Wall - Statistically?

[zeebneeb]

Reggie has been great for us.. He's got to be close to all-star level.. How's he comparing to Wall - Statistically?

STATS JACKSON/WALL

REGGIE

PPG RPG APG SPG BPG FG% FT% 3P% MPG
20.1 4.1 6.3 1.0 0.1 .436 .869 .357 30.9 +4.8

WALL

PPG RPG APG SPG BPG FG% FT% 3P% MPG
19.6 4.1 8.9 2.1 0.7 .443 .782 .343 34.8 -0.7

Wall plays 4 more mpg.

Reggie is just a game winner type of player so I give him the edge and hes a great great pick and roll player. Pretty even but in terms of value to a club ill take Jackson.

[Han Solo]

Reggie has been great for us.. He's got to be close to all-star level.. How's he comparing to Wall - Statistically?

STATS JACKSON/WALL

REGGIE

PPG RPG APG SPG BPG FG% FT% 3P% MPG
20.1 4.1 6.3 1.0 0.1 .436 .869 .357 30.9 +4.8

WALL

PPG RPG APG SPG BPG FG% FT% 3P% MPG
19.6 4.1 8.9 2.1 0.7 .443 .782 .343 34.8 -0.7

Wall plays 4 more mpg.

Reggie is just a game winner type of player so I give him the edge and hes a great great pick and roll player. Pretty even but in terms of value to a club ill take Jackson.

Thanks bro!

[bstein14]

Stats wise, not knowing who was who, I'd give Wall's numbers the edge because of his assists. Jackson's clutch stats are pretty great though, so I think so far this year its pretty much a wash. Wall has the name recognition though when it comes down to being an all-star I can see Wall getting the edge because of that if he can keep his team hovering around .500

[detroitKG]

SJ and Dre are living together right...I couldn't tell...

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ZGerovac/status/677493725052932096[/tweet]

Not gonna lie,but that is creepy..Hopefuly jackson isnt the jealous type,at least not until stanley 2-3rd year when he really takes off.

lol why would he be jealous? Dre did it so Stanley wouldn't have to live alone with his mother passing and everything...if anything it speaks volumes about the kind of guy Dre is.

[detroitKG]

Stanley Johnson quietly had another good game wed night...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZzdNam2Gho

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZzdNam2Gho[/youtube]

[Jackattaq]

I wonder if there is a thread about whether or not the HACK A DRE/DEANDRE is something the NBA should do away with. I see posts in every game thread complaining about how much posters hate it. How it slows the game, how it mucks it all up. Do you think fans would feel the same way if we didn't have Andre bricking 7 out of every 10 FREE THROWS? If the Pistons got 3-4 wins a year by using this strategy would it be fine then? I'm just curious, because it seems to come up every time it's employed by a team, the team getting their guy hacked whines about it. Even George and Greg on the FSD game play declared it a success after the Piston's lead shrunk and Andre was forced to the bench. Does this topic deserve it's own thread? Should it be a rule change in the NBA or should guy's "man up" and just become better FT shooters?

[Snakebites]

I wonder if there is a thread about whether or not the HACK A DRE/DEANDRE is something the NBA should do away with. I see posts in every game thread complaining about how much posters hate it. How it slows the game, how it mucks it all up. Do you think fans would feel the same way if we didn't have Andre bricking 7 out of every 10 FREE THROWS? If the Pistons got 3-4 wins a year by using this strategy would it be fine then? I'm just curious, because it seems to come up every time it's employed by a team, the team getting their guy hacked whines about it. Even George and Greg on the FSD game play declared it a success after the Piston's lead shrunk and Andre was forced to the bench. Does this topic deserve it's own thread? Should it be a rule change in the NBA or should guy's "man up" and just become better FT shooters?

I'm OKAY with hacking players when they have the ball or when they are part of the offensive play, as at least then our team gets a chance to try to make an offensive play, and that's a reasonable limitation to accept when you have a player who can't hit free throws. However, fouling a player in the bonus when they aren't even part of the possession to get a free stop via the free throw line needs to stop. It kills the game.

Its damaged my perception of the game to the point where I actually get up and walk away when it starts happening.

I didn't even like it when they used to do it to Shaq in the 90s and early 00s, and I hated Shaq! It makes for a demonstrably inferior product on the floor, its simply miserable to watch.

Do I hate it more now that we're on the receiving end of it? You bet.

The foul against Drummond on a MADE free throw was particularly unforgivable. The Clippers were down by 2 with 20 seconds left and we were supposed to have the ball, and the Clippers didn't even have to play any defense! Its entirely unfair, and not a good way to play the game.

Its easy to say "man up" and learn to make your free throws, but don't you think these guys DO work on their free throws? It may not make a whole lot of sense, but clearly there are some players who CAN'T improve in this regard.

[kurtis48239]

SJ and Dre are living together right...I couldn't tell...

[tweet]https://twitter.com/ZGerovac/status/677493725052932096[/tweet]

Not gonna lie,but that is creepy..Hopefuly jackson isnt the jealous type,at least not until stanley 2-3rd year when he really takes off.

lol why would he be jealous? Dre did it so Stanley wouldn't have to live alone with his mother passing and everything...if anything it speaks volumes about the kind of guy Dre is.

Its a legit question.dre/jackson have been really close and they are constantly clowning with each other,more so than with any other players on the team.Right now all is good because johnson hasant broken out yet,but when it happens and they are living together...Not saying it will happen,buts its not out of the ordinary, stuff like that dose happen.I also meant that stanleys stare was creepy,not him and dre living together

[Billl]

I wonder if there is a thread about whether or not the HACK A DRE/DEANDRE is something the NBA should do away with. I see posts in every game thread complaining about how much posters hate it. How it slows the game, how it mucks it all up. Do you think fans would feel the same way if we didn't have Andre bricking 7 out of every 10 FREE THROWS? If the Pistons got 3-4 wins a year by using this strategy would it be fine then? I'm just curious, because it seems to come up every time it's employed by a team, the team getting their guy hacked whines about it. Even George and Greg on the FSD game play declared it a success after the Piston's lead shrunk and Andre was forced to the bench. Does this topic deserve it's own thread? Should it be a rule change in the NBA or should guy's "man up" and just become better FT shooters?

Eh - is sucks no matter who is doing it. Nobody wants to watch a game with a foul on every play. It's kinda like euroball where they foul every time there is a possible fast break. Sure, it's smart strategy, but it makes for lousy entertainment. That's why the nba has a breakaway rule. You have to be in position to make a meaningful basketball play, not just grab the guy. They should just implement something similar for intentional fouls.

[DocRI]

Reggie has been great for us.. He's got to be close to all-star level.. How's he comparing to Wall - Statistically?

STATS JACKSON/WALL

REGGIE

PPG RPG APG SPG BPG FG% FT% 3P% MPG
20.1 4.1 6.3 1.0 0.1 .436 .869 .357 30.9 +4.8

WALL

PPG RPG APG SPG BPG FG% FT% 3P% MPG
19.6 4.1 8.9 2.1 0.7 .443 .782 .343 34.8 -0.7

Wall plays 4 more mpg.

Reggie is just a game winner type of player so I give him the edge and hes a great great pick and roll player. Pretty even but in terms of value to a club ill take Jackson.

As far as individual stats, they're really right on top of each other. But there's another stat that I think tips the scales to Reggie — we're 15-12 and surprisingly in the mix of teams right behind CLE, while the Wizards (who were expected to be one of the best teams in the East this year) have struggled and are 10-14. Team wins matter when you're judging PGs.

[Spider156]

Honestly if I was SVG, I'd leave Andre the WHOLE quarter in and ruin the NBA game even if the team loses. Let's see how long a 5 min left in the quarter can last. An hour? How many fouls does the team have to give up in order to get back?

[Jackattaq]

I wonder if there is a thread about whether or not the HACK A DRE/DEANDRE is something the NBA should do away with. I see posts in every game thread complaining about how much posters hate it. How it slows the game, how it mucks it all up. Do you think fans would feel the same way if we didn't have Andre bricking 7 out of every 10 FREE THROWS? If the Pistons got 3-4 wins a year by using this strategy would it be fine then? I'm just curious, because it seems to come up every time it's employed by a team, the team getting their guy hacked whines about it. Even George and Greg on the FSD game play declared it a success after the Piston's lead shrunk and Andre was forced to the bench. Does this topic deserve it's own thread? Should it be a rule change in the NBA or should guy's "man up" and just become better FT shooters?

I'm OKAY with hacking players when they have the ball or when they are part of the offensive play, as at least then our team gets a chance to try to make an offensive play, and that's a reasonable limitation to accept when you have a player who can't hit free throws. However, fouling a player in the bonus when they aren't even part of the possession to get a free stop via the free throw line needs to stop. It kills the game.

Its damaged my perception of the game to the point where I actually get up and walk away when it starts happening.

I didn't even like it when they used to do it to Shaq in the 90s and early 00s, and I hated Shaq! It makes for a demonstrably inferior product on the floor, its simply miserable to watch.

Do I hate it more now that we're on the receiving end of it? You bet.

The foul against Drummond on a MADE free throw was particularly unforgivable. The Clippers were down by 2 with 20 seconds left and we were supposed to have the ball, and the Clippers didn't even have to play any defense! Its entirely unfair, and not a good way to play the game.

Its easy to say "man up" and learn to make your free throws, but don't you think these guys DO work on their free throws? It may not make a whole lot of sense, but clearly there are some players who CAN'T improve in this regard.

I guess you can count me among the skeptical people that just don't buy it that you "CAN'T" improve as a free throw shooter. I'm nearly 40 years old, I have been playing basketball since I was 6. If you want to be a better basketball player you have to practice. If you want to be better at basketball you have to focus on the things that need improvement. When I was younger, I wanted to dunk, I spent a whole summer working on my legs and jumping to get up to the rim. After months of working on it, I finally threw down a dunk as a sophomore. I focused on what I wanted. I wasn't the greatest dribbler as a younger player, so I worked on dribbling with my weak hand and had my dominant hand tied behind my back until I was decent enough to handle the ball with either hand. I worked hard at it until I was proficient. If you put in the time, it will come. Almost 40 now, want to relive some of that game I used to have, so I started playing about 6 weeks ago, I dropped 20 lbs, and started working on my legs again, finally got up and dunked again after not being able to for a long time. It's not easy, but if you want it, you can usually attain it if you put in the work.

I think everyone saw Andre hit that half court shot just before halftime of the Celtics game, one of the announcers (I believe it was Greg Kelser) said Andre practices those shots and was showing them off in warmups a couple games ago. If that is true, then why isn't he putting the work and practice in on his free throws? The thing about a free throw is: IT NEVER CHANGES. It's always a shot from 15 feet, being made on a 10 foot rim without a defender being able to challenge or block it. Just by using the law of averages, how much more likely is Andre Drummond gonna be in a position to shoot a FREE THROW than in a position to have to shoot a half court shot? So do you really believe that Andre is putting in that much more work in on his free throws than he is clowning around with stupid half courters? I think it should be an embarrassment to him that he is STILL so bad at FT's in his 4th year in the league now. Like I said, 15 feet away, 10 foot tall rim, CONSTANT, DOESN'T CHANGE, NO DEFENDER.

So back to the original question: should they change the rules? That's completely debatable as a basketball fan, for me: No, I'm ok with things as they are. If a player is such an INCOMPLETE player that they can't do one of the most basic skills the game has to offer, then screw them. I'm not disagreeing that it does affect the quality or pace of the game. I just basically don't have much pity for a guy who is paid millions of bucks a year to WORKOUT, STAY IN PEAK FITNESS, PERFECT HIS CRAFT, that won't do the needed dirty work to make themselves even ADEQUATE in the FT area. I've heard the argument of big hands and all that other stuff, I'm pretty sure Webber had some of the largest hands I've seen and he wasn't a 37% FT shooter. So, for as much as I love watching Andre as a rebounder and a guy who can catch lobs, I'm not mad at other teams for doing the HACK A DRE. If I were in the opponent's position and it got me the ball back with only 0-1 points scored each time, I'd be doing the same. If you are mad at anyone over it, be mad at the guy who prefers to waste time practicing halfcourt shots instead of FT's.

[mercury]

If they tied bonuses to made FTs the % would go up

[DetroitPistons]

Reggie has been great for us.. He's got to be close to all-star level.. How's he comparing to Wall - Statistically?

STATS JACKSON/WALL

REGGIE

PPG RPG APG SPG BPG FG% FT% 3P% MPG
20.1 4.1 6.3 1.0 0.1 .436 .869 .357 30.9 +4.8

WALL

PPG RPG APG SPG BPG FG% FT% 3P% MPG
19.6 4.1 8.9 2.1 0.7 .443 .782 .343 34.8 -0.7

Wall plays 4 more mpg.

Reggie is just a game winner type of player so I give him the edge and hes a great great pick and roll player. Pretty even but in terms of value to a club ill take Jackson.

RJ is averaging only 31 mpg

[DetroitPistons]

Reggie has been great for us.. He's got to be close to all-star level.. How's he comparing to Wall - Statistically?

STATS JACKSON/WALL

REGGIE

PPG RPG APG SPG BPG FG% FT% 3P% MPG
20.1 4.1 6.3 1.0 0.1 .436 .869 .357 30.9 +4.8

WALL

PPG RPG APG SPG BPG FG% FT% 3P% MPG
19.6 4.1 8.9 2.1 0.7 .443 .782 .343 34.8 -0.7

Wall plays 4 more mpg.

Reggie is just a game winner type of player so I give him the edge and hes a great great pick and roll player. Pretty even but in terms of value to a club ill take Jackson.

As far as individual stats, they're really right on top of each other. But there's another stat that I think tips the scales to Reggie — we're 15-12 and surprisingly in the mix of teams right behind CLE, while the Wizards (who were expected to be one of the best teams in the East this year) have struggled and are 10-14. Team wins matter when you're judging PGs.

I don't like when people use team record to compare individual players. It's just not fair. WAS has a much worse roster imo and Beal has been injured. They just simply are not going to be a good team no matter how good Wall is (unless he goes into Steph Curry mode or something).

[DetroitSho]

STATS JACKSON/WALL

REGGIE

PPG RPG APG SPG BPG FG% FT% 3P% MPG
20.1 4.1 6.3 1.0 0.1 .436 .869 .357 30.9 +4.8

WALL

PPG RPG APG SPG BPG FG% FT% 3P% MPG
19.6 4.1 8.9 2.1 0.7 .443 .782 .343 34.8 -0.7

Wall plays 4 more mpg.

Reggie is just a game winner type of player so I give him the edge and hes a great great pick and roll player. Pretty even but in terms of value to a club ill take Jackson.

As far as individual stats, they're really right on top of each other. But there's another stat that I think tips the scales to Reggie — we're 15-12 and surprisingly in the mix of teams right behind CLE, while the Wizards (who were expected to be one of the best teams in the East this year) have struggled and are 10-14. Team wins matter when you're judging PGs.

I don't like when people use team record to compare individual players. It's just not fair. WAS has a much worse roster imo and Beal has been injured. They just simply are not going to be a good team no matter how good Wall is (unless he goes into Steph Curry mode or something).

Yeah that's what superstars do. Indiana has a less talented roster than Detroit, but then there's Paul George. But I agree with you, John Wall is not a superstar. He's just popular. Most people think it's the same thing.

[joedumars1]

I wonder if there is a thread about whether or not the HACK A DRE/DEANDRE is something the NBA should do away with. I see posts in every game thread complaining about how much posters hate it. How it slows the game, how it mucks it all up. Do you think fans would feel the same way if we didn't have Andre bricking 7 out of every 10 FREE THROWS? If the Pistons got 3-4 wins a year by using this strategy would it be fine then? I'm just curious, because it seems to come up every time it's employed by a team, the team getting their guy hacked whines about it. Even George and Greg on the FSD game play declared it a success after the Piston's lead shrunk and Andre was forced to the bench. Does this topic deserve it's own thread? Should it be a rule change in the NBA or should guy's "man up" and just become better FT shooters?

I'm OKAY with hacking players when they have the ball or when they are part of the offensive play, as at least then our team gets a chance to try to make an offensive play, and that's a reasonable limitation to accept when you have a player who can't hit free throws. However, fouling a player in the bonus when they aren't even part of the possession to get a free stop via the free throw line needs to stop. It kills the game.

Its damaged my perception of the game to the point where I actually get up and walk away when it starts happening.

I didn't even like it when they used to do it to Shaq in the 90s and early 00s, and I hated Shaq! It makes for a demonstrably inferior product on the floor, its simply miserable to watch.

Do I hate it more now that we're on the receiving end of it? You bet.

The foul against Drummond on a MADE free throw was particularly unforgivable. The Clippers were down by 2 with 20 seconds left and we were supposed to have the ball, and the Clippers didn't even have to play any defense! Its entirely unfair, and not a good way to play the game.

Its easy to say "man up" and learn to make your free throws, but don't you think these guys DO work on their free throws? It may not make a whole lot of sense, but clearly there are some players who CAN'T improve in this regard.

I guess you can count me among the skeptical people that just don't buy it that you "CAN'T" improve as a free throw shooter. I'm nearly 40 years old, I have been playing basketball since I was 6. If you want to be a better basketball player you have to practice. If you want to be better at basketball you have to focus on the things that need improvement. When I was younger, I wanted to dunk, I spent a whole summer working on my legs and jumping to get up to the rim. After months of working on it, I finally threw down a dunk as a sophomore. I focused on what I wanted. I wasn't the greatest dribbler as a younger player, so I worked on dribbling with my weak hand and had my dominant hand tied behind my back until I was decent enough to handle the ball with either hand. I worked hard at it until I was proficient. If you put in the time, it will come. Almost 40 now, want to relive some of that game I used to have, so I started playing about 6 weeks ago, I dropped 20 lbs, and started working on my legs again, finally got up and dunked again after not being able to for a long time. It's not easy, but if you want it, you can usually attain it if you put in the work.

I think everyone saw Andre hit that half court shot just before halftime of the Celtics game, one of the announcers (I believe it was Greg Kelser) said Andre practices those shots and was showing them off in warmups a couple games ago. If that is true, then why isn't he putting the work and practice in on his free throws? The thing about a free throw is: IT NEVER CHANGES. It's always a shot from 15 feet, being made on a 10 foot rim without a defender being able to challenge or block it. Just by using the law of averages, how much more likely is Andre Drummond gonna be in a position to shoot a FREE THROW than in a position to have to shoot a half court shot? So do you really believe that Andre is putting in that much more work in on his free throws than he is clowning around with stupid half courters? I think it should be an embarrassment to him that he is STILL so bad at FT's in his 4th year in the league now. Like I said, 15 feet away, 10 foot tall rim, CONSTANT, DOESN'T CHANGE, NO DEFENDER.

So back to the original question: should they change the rules? That's completely debatable as a basketball fan, for me: No, I'm ok with things as they are. If a player is such an INCOMPLETE player that they can't do one of the most basic skills the game has to offer, then screw them. I'm not disagreeing that it does affect the quality or pace of the game. I just basically don't have much pity for a guy who is paid millions of bucks a year to WORKOUT, STAY IN PEAK FITNESS, PERFECT HIS CRAFT, that won't do the needed dirty work to make themselves even ADEQUATE in the FT area. I've heard the argument of big hands and all that other stuff, I'm pretty sure Webber had some of the largest hands I've seen and he wasn't a 37% FT shooter. So, for as much as I love watching Andre as a rebounder and a guy who can catch lobs, I'm not mad at other teams for doing the HACK A DRE. If I were in the opponent's position and it got me the ball back with only 0-1 points scored each time, I'd be doing the same. If you are mad at anyone over it, be mad at the guy who prefers to waste time practicing halfcourt shots instead of FT's.

If Dre didn't work on his FT's don't you think we would've heard about it before? He works on the halfcourt shot during warmups on gameday. Is he suppose to stand at the FT and shoot FT's with his teammates shooting three's and layups? How do you think that will go. Dre for sure works on his FT's.