Stretch 4 or defensive 4?

[El Chivo]

I guess I'm in the minority but I don't think ilyasova is that bad a defender. He got torched by one of the best offensive PFs, love, but everyone does. He gets charges, he contests - I don't think he's the biggest problem with our defence.
I can't think of a stretch 4 that plays significantly better d that is attainable.
As for tolliver, he's all hustle. He's not greatest, but he's good for a cheap bench guy.

I'm fine with Illy and I'd like his option to be picked up.

I don't want Anderson for 15+ mln a year. I'd rather sign a defensive and athletic 4 to share minutes with Illy.

Jones? Powell?

Jordan Hill could be fine. Not the best defender, but athletic, decent midrange jumper, energy guy.

[Todd3]

I get the sense some people here don't watch the rest of the league. Which is fine, but if you did you wouldn't be criticizing Drummond's post defense for giving up 29 to Lopez. He's been doing that against everyone lately and is arguably the best low post scorer in the league. He had 33 & 10 vs Davis/NOH the game before. 28 & 12 vs DAL the game before that. And games of 31 & 10 and 29 & 10 vs OKC and TOR in the weeks prior, among others.

It's as if the possibility of a player playing great offense is an impossibility against us, and it's automatically bad defense on our players part (and that type of ignorance is starting to become annoying tbh).

Nevermind that Drummond outrebounded him 18 to 5, or that Dre was +10 and Lopez -7, or that Lopez gave up 21 pts on 10-15 FG to Drummond as well, or that we won...

I thought it was a great big man battle between 2 top C's and was entertaining watching them go back & forth, and in the end Drummond won the matchup and game, so I don't understand what people are complaining about..

[DetroitSho]

I get the sense some people here don't watch the rest of the league. Which is fine, but if you did you wouldn't be criticizing Drummond's post defense for giving up 29 to Lopez. He's been doing that against everyone lately and is arguably the best low post scorer in the league. He had 33 & 10 vs Davis/NOH the game before. 28 & 12 vs DAL the game before that. And games of 31 & 10 and 29 & 10 vs OKC and TOR in the weeks prior, among others.

It's as if the possibility of a player playing great offense is an impossibility against us, and it's automatically bad defense on our players part (and that type of ignorance is starting to become annoying tbh).

Nevermind that Drummond outrebounded him 18 to 5, or that Dre was +10 and Lopez -7, or that Lopez gave up 21 pts on 10-15 FG to Drummond as well, or that we won...

I thought it was a great big man battle between 2 top C's and was entertaining watching them go back & forth, and in the end Drummond won the matchup and game, so I don't understand what people are complaining about..

Not to mention Lopez was hitting 20 footers when Dre was recovering from helping out on the pnr when we constantly went over screens on non shooting point guards. Dre gets scored on because our guards can't stop penetration and THAT makes him a bad defender.

[vic]

HOrford or Ibaka or Bobby Portis or Taj Gibson or Terrence Jones or a draft pick with defensive potential.

If not, just keep MOrris at the 4. I don't want no parts of no 4s that can't play defense.

If Anderson is on this team next year I'll be disappointed with SVG. He complains about defense every game but he has to realize that you only get consistent defense with defensive minded players.

Bingo, I agree with you 99%. The Terrance Jones mention is what I can't get with it. I continue to fail to see what this forum sees in him. I think people really like Terrance Jones the player, ON PAPER. But what most people on here bill him to be is not what he actually is/does.

You might be right. I know Terrence has a lot of potential... but maybe he doesn't have it mentally. Or maybe its just his situation. who know.

[vic]

Stan likes to pay lip service to defense but has Ersan and Tolliver as our PF's and is supposedly hot for Ryan Anderson in the off-season - so his words don't match his actions. Not to mention along with PF signing, re-upping Dre and Reggie's extension last off-season our three highest paid players will be crummy defensive ones.

But hey Stanley, Kentavious, Brandon and Mook you better D up hard or else.

BINGO. Thanks I thought I was the only one that was saying this... I get tired of SVG complaining about defense but chasing offensive minded players. Muscles don't mean defense. You've got to find a star that has a defensive MINDset. He did well with Stanley Johnson and Marcus Morris... but soon SVG is going to have to put some $$$$$$ where his post-game interview mouth is.

[rmfc]

Ibaka

[mattao313]

4 out 1 in does not suck. it sucks when your playbook is high p'n'r' and no else.

That's on Reggie though. He needs to take the blinders off more often and get others involved. It would also help if our "shooters" could be consistent.

You cant put it all on Reggie tho sometimes he gets tunnel vision but SVG offense is just stand at the 3pt line and hope a PG finds you. Besides that one play where KCP curls to the hoop in the paint no one ever cuts or moves on offense. SVG has to get more creative on offense you can't just run pnr the whole game.

[DetroitSho]

HOrford or Ibaka or Bobby Portis or Taj Gibson or Terrence Jones or a draft pick with defensive potential.

If not, just keep MOrris at the 4. I don't want no parts of no 4s that can't play defense.

If Anderson is on this team next year I'll be disappointed with SVG. He complains about defense every game but he has to realize that you only get consistent defense with defensive minded players.

Bingo, I agree with you 99%. The Terrance Jones mention is what I can't get with it. I continue to fail to see what this forum sees in him. I think people really like Terrance Jones the player, ON PAPER. But what most people on here bill him to be is not what he actually is/does.

You might be right. I know Terrence has a lot of potential... but maybe he doesn't have it mentally. Or maybe its just his situation. who know.

Yeah Jones literally hasn't been right since LMA took his soul in the playoffs 2 years ago, and I'm dead serious when I make this observation. He came back last year and got hurt and had a down year and the same thing this year. Houston is practically begging for a player with the type of skillset people on this forum claims he provides, yet they don't view him that way. That should be curious to people.

[DetroitSho]

4 out 1 in does not suck. it sucks when your playbook is high p'n'r' and no else.

That's on Reggie though. He needs to take the blinders off more often and get others involved. It would also help if our "shooters" could be consistent.

You cant put it all on Reggie tho sometimes he gets tunnel vision but SVG offense is just stand at the 3pt line and hope a PG finds you. Besides that one play where KCP curls to the hoop in the paint no one ever cuts or moves on offense. SVG has to get more creative on offense you can't just run pnr the whole game.

Been saying this for awhile now. Glad other people can see this.

[Todd3]

I don't think the system is the problem as much as the personnel ie role players. The system is designed to get either high % shots in the paint off pick&roll or open 3s, and it gets either/or consistently. Can't ask for much more than that, and our 2 best players strength is pick&oll, so can't ask for a better system in terms of fit and playing to your best players strengths. The problem is we don't have enough reliable 3pt shooters around them to capitalize on all the open 3s we get. That's basically it. If we had great shooters all around the arc instead, we'd have one of the best offenses in the league imo.

[jakebernat]

the offense isn't nearly as big of a problem as the defense. when we actually have some ball movement instead of reggie dribbling the air out of the basketball for 20 seconds, we look good.

[dVs33]

4 out 1 in does not suck. it sucks when your playbook is high p'n'r' and no else.

That's on Reggie though. He needs to take the blinders off more often and get others involved. It would also help if our "shooters" could be consistent.

You cant put it all on Reggie tho sometimes he gets tunnel vision but SVG offense is just stand at the 3pt line and hope a PG finds you. Besides that one play where KCP curls to the hoop in the paint no one ever cuts or moves on offense. SVG has to get more creative on offense you can't just run pnr the whole game.

Can't argue that.

[whitehops]

SVG keeps haggling the Pistons to play better defense but it's never going to happen unless we put a defensive minded pf like serge ibaka next to dre.

Stan likes to pay lip service to defense but has Ersan and Tolliver as our PF's and is supposedly hot for Ryan Anderson in the off-season - so his words don't match his actions. Not to mention along with PF signing, re-upping Dre and Reggie's extension last off-season our three highest paid players will be crummy defensive ones.

I get tired of SVG complaining about defense but chasing offensive minded players. Muscles don't mean defense. You've got to find a star that has a defensive MINDset.

defense, in theory, is easy. most of it is effort and taking pride in playing hard on that end of the floor. there's obviously things like instincts, communication, physical ability, etc. but defense is the area of basketball where you don't have to have spectacular skill or ability to be good. that is why coaches get most frustrated when players don't play defense hard or well.

I like to give this example when bringing up defense: Jason kidd, in his late 30's had next to no athleticism and wasn't that big but was a very good defender. guys like ilyasova get exposed in individual defense but are good team defenders because they are often in the right place, which helps teammates out a lot. SVG isn't expecting ilyasova to shut down blake griffin, tolliver to shut down kevin love or ryan Anderson to shut down Anthony davis but if they give effort and play good team defense then that's all he can really ask for. you don't need nba all-defense players like ibaka to get that, and you don't need five all-nba defenders to have a good defense.

if you asked SVG I bet he would say that our problem defensively isn't ilyasova or tolliver, it's the inconsistent effort we get from Jackson and Drummond (along with Jennings and Stanley's mental mistakes).

[pistontr]

without stretch 4, drummond is useless.

[mattao313]

without stretch 4, drummond is useless.

You mean Reggie would be useless...but I would even disagree with that as well.

[pistontr]

without stretch 4, drummond is useless.

You mean Reggie would be useless...but I would even disagree with that as well.

yes, drummond would be usefull but team offense would be turmoil. we saw it with monroe-drummond duo.

[pistontr]

how about both. serge ibaka?

[mattao313]

without stretch 4, drummond is useless.

You mean Reggie would be useless...but I would even disagree with that as well.

yes, drummond would be usefull but team offense would be turmoil. we saw it with monroe-drummond duo.

But they dont have to be a stretch 4 Monroe sucked at the 4 because he camped in the paint all game and sucked at guarding 4s. A face up guy that can hit 16- 18ft jumpers could work as well, but I would want better defense since the offensive drop off of long 2s.