Game 51: Detroit Pistons (26-24) vs. New York Knicks (23-28) - 7:00 PM ET

[Todd3]

That's not how the rule works. If he runs a PnR, he is part of the play setting the pick. If he is to the side of 2 other players running PnR, how is he involved in the PnR? He doesn't have to go to the corner to not be in the play. He can be to the side of the paint waiting for the rebound and they can't foul him until the rebound. His man has to follow him because he is such a dominant rebounder, which will create the necessary spacing in the paint for Reggie. But they don't even have to run a PnR, they could PnP for a 3 too and have Dre in the paint for the rebound and he couldn't get fouled until the rebound.

Morris/Tolliver set picks effectively throughout games. Not as good as Dre, but if Dre isn't in the game he can't set any, so I don't get your point.

i might be having a little trouble understanding where you propose drummond would stand but here are essentially SVG's two options:

a) he can play drummond, who can't be involved in the play in any capacity. if he comes even close to the play we risk drummond getting fouled and likely wasting the possession. so you're essentially playing 4v5 on offense banking on the hopes that drummond will get the offensive board (in which case he'll likely just get fouled). if you put drummond close to the paint he'll have better rebounding position but risk he comes into the play, and if you put him further away he has worse rebounding position and his man can cheat off him but he's less likely to get fouled.

or...

b) play baynes and run your offense as normal.


the difference in defense doesn't make up for the game-within-a-game of doing everything you possibly can to play drummond but not have him get fouled. also, if drummond plays defense and the other team misses any loose ball foul while going for a rebound is not intentional and dre will shoot free throws. brilliant.

OMG. We have been finishing games with Drummond all year and this is rarely a problem in the last 2 min. Why are people acting like teams are fouling him non-stop at the end of games?

He has taken 15 FTAs total all season in the final 2 minutes of games decided by 5 pts or less.

You're overreacting.

[Todd3]

On a related note, Reggie actually leads the league in FTAs in the final 4 minutes of games decided by 5 pts or less, and he converts 90%.

[whitehops]

OMG. We have been finishing games with Drummond all year and this is rarely a problem in the last 2 min. Why are people acting like teams are fouling him non-stop at the end of games?

He has taken 15 FTAs total all season in the final 2 minutes of games decided by 5 pts or less.

You're overreacting.

except if a team hacks drummond intentionally (like new york was doing), wouldn't it be reasonable to expect them to do the same down the stretch of the game? there have been games when teams haven't hacked dre at all and SVG has left him in.

in fact if the team is trying to catch up it's more likely to happen if you ask me. they get to save time on the clock by fouling ASAP and get a quality defensive possession out of it.

[jjaymes]

In case you missed the game!
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SRvhXsSINw[/youtube]

[tmorgan]

Reggie is a closer.

[mattao313]

Reggie is a closer.

Yup and it was funny how Reggie Miller was saying the Knicks have one in Melo but we don't.

[DBC10]

Reggie is a closer.

Yup and it was funny how Reggie Miller was saying the Knicks have one in Melo but we don't.

Reggie was never a paragon of great commentary, unfortunately. He's so boring and doesn't have great analysis.

[Blkbrd671]

I thought Dre was looking good down low in that game. Some games we should feed him more. I know the hack a Dre probably scares people.

Dre looked phenomenal last night with that spin move and a couple nice floaters and hooks. however Dre rarely gets great positioning in the low post, or we fail to find him when he does. He's done a better job of sealing his man , but when he's 10-12 feet out, his efficiency drops. There were several moments last night where dre tried to much. Beginning of the season there was a effort to get good positioning and i believe DRe's numbers were decent, as season has gone he doesn't consistently fight for those positions, probably cuz its easier to just get put backs.

What really impressed me the most last night though was dre energy defensively. Can't remember the last time i saw dre run down the floor and get a great block

[Blkbrd671]

Really great response to a bad game in Boston the night before. It's especially impressive doing this against a rested team and without our best defender who is our minutes leader.

Stanley Johnson is on track to become a big-star in this league.

BTW, I am NOT advocating this, and I do NOT want it to happen, but I don't think it's impossible that we trade KCP in a package for a big upgrade at PF. Stanley and Hilliard could own that position.



.

so wierd thing just happened. I don't remember reading/quoting your post, but when i opened this tab up it was sitting here so i guess its meant to be. Honestly if we were going to make a trade, that would make the most sense, however i highly doubt we move him. We aren't in a rush , if we stay on this path we are going to have a really good team for a really long time. The question is Mook

[mattao313]

Reggie is a closer.

Yup and it was funny how Reggie Miller was saying the Knicks have one in Melo but we don't.

Reggie was never a paragon of great commentary, unfortunately. He's so boring and doesn't have great analysis.

Commentary as a whole was bad to me, the whole game they talked about the Knicks and how they could make the playoffs and win the game. Give the Pistons some love too.

[DBC10]

Yup and it was funny how Reggie Miller was saying the Knicks have one in Melo but we don't.

Reggie was never a paragon of great commentary, unfortunately. He's so boring and doesn't have great analysis.

Commentary as a whole was bad to me, the whole game they talked about the Knicks and how they could make the playoffs and win the game. Give the Pistons some love too.

Yeah. Although, I did like Webber giving a mini-shoutout/rant to Flint and the government officials part. He was so right.

[Blkbrd671]

Please stop arguing this. Now Dre isn't a clutch rebounder?

He's 2nd in the league in 2nd chance points per game in the last 2 minutes of games decided by 5 pts or less.

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/clutch/misc/?sort=PTS_2ND_CHANCE&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&ClutchTime=Last%202%20Minutes&CF=GP*GE*15

Damn thank goodness he narrowly beat KENT BAZEMORE AND AMINU.

Did you really need a stat to know that?

Moreso you were throwing out stats that were irrelevant, the discussion was relevance of "clutch rebounds" in closing moments and you brought season average into the discussion. And yes, you should provide actual substance to your argument point, "because Todd said so" means as much as "because blkbrd said so". Though i know i have more bravado

He is also 3rd in the league behind LeBron and Cousins in points in the paint per game in the last 2 minutes.


Neither would be possible if teams were just fouling him at all times in the last 2 min like you are claiming. Do you not understand the rule or what? No intentional fouls allowed off the ball in the last 2 min if a player is not involved in the play.

watch the film and listen to SVG's post games. If i were to take this debate point seriously, your essentially saying SVG takes Dre out in the last 2 minutes because baynes is the better center. Since "intentional fouls" aren't a problem.

Dre also is
top 10 in FT in the last 2 minutes
Top 10 in allowing points in the paint in the last 2 min
Not in the top 20 in blks in the last 2 min

All he has to do is clear the lane for a few seconds while Reggie is penetrating and then he can go for the rebound as soon as Reggie shoots. What is so difficult to understand about this?

when i read your post, i can tell you watched any film.

If you think that Dre running from outside the key trying to go over the backs of 3 defenders boxing him out is much better than him getting good position(which literally has been the difference between last years dre and this years), then your simply not living in reality. furthermore, you completely ignore offensive spacing . Quite easy to ask "wtf are you talking about".

I didn't expect my initial post to require this much explanation. I thought it was pretty straightforward,

Well that's because you thought your initial post was right, which in a vacuum where you can control the whole situation, you maybe, but in reality, asking your center to always be on the look out to stay out of the play and then get back into it while a teams consciously trying to keep you away is not smart bball. nor is going 4-5 on offense. Its actually quite easy to see why SVG removes dre, at times.

[Blkbrd671]

OMG. We have been finishing games with Drummond all year and this is rarely a problem in the last 2 min. Why are people acting like teams are fouling him non-stop at the end of games?

He has taken 15 FTAs total all season in the final 2 minutes of games decided by 5 pts or less.

You're overreacting.

except if a team hacks drummond intentionally (like new york was doing), wouldn't it be reasonable to expect them to do the same down the stretch of the game? there have been games when teams haven't hacked dre at all and SVG has left him in.

in fact if the team is trying to catch up it's more likely to happen if you ask me. they get to save time on the clock by fouling ASAP and get a quality defensive possession out of it.

He's top 12 in fouls drawn in the final 2 minutes
He's top 10 in FT attempts in the final 2 minutes
and a smooth 45% from the line in the final 2 minutes

[Blkbrd671]

I just watched the reply like 20 minutes ago. Marv when Tolliver hit that open three in the 4th "he's not a 3pt shooter". You can tell they don't pay attention to all the teams that closely.

Yeah I shook my head when I heard Marv say that Tolliver was not a shooter and prior to that Reggie Miller talking up there only being one closer on the court.
Do you reckon someone told RJ, hence the look when he closed it out? I hope so

Not sure if someone told RJ, but I hope they did after reading what BLK said about Reggie saying only one closer. Hey Reggie I think RJ might be one of the most clutch players in the league this year.

he's still salty about that block. I hope when we retire prince's jersey, Reggie is the commentator for the game.

[Todd3]

Please stop arguing this. Now Dre isn't a clutch rebounder?

He's 2nd in the league in 2nd chance points per game in the last 2 minutes of games decided by 5 pts or less.

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/clutch/misc/?sort=PTS_2ND_CHANCE&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&ClutchTime=Last%202%20Minutes&CF=GP*GE*15

Damn thank goodness he narrowly beat KENT BAZEMORE AND AMINU.

Did you really need a stat to know that?

Moreso you were throwing out stats that were irrelevant, the discussion was relevance of "clutch rebounds" in closing moments and you brought season average into the discussion. And yes, you should provide actual substance to your argument point, "because Todd said so" means as much as "because blkbrd said so". Though i know i have more bravado

He is also 3rd in the league behind LeBron and Cousins in points in the paint per game in the last 2 minutes.


Neither would be possible if teams were just fouling him at all times in the last 2 min like you are claiming. Do you not understand the rule or what? No intentional fouls allowed off the ball in the last 2 min if a player is not involved in the play.

watch the film and listen to SVG's post games. If i were to take this debate point seriously, your essentially saying SVG takes Dre out in the last 2 minutes because baynes is the better center. Since "intentional fouls" aren't a problem.

Dre also is
top 10 in FT in the last 2 minutes
Top 10 in allowing points in the paint in the last 2 min
Not in the top 20 in blks in the last 2 min

All he has to do is clear the lane for a few seconds while Reggie is penetrating and then he can go for the rebound as soon as Reggie shoots. What is so difficult to understand about this?

when i read your post, i can tell you watched any film.

If you think that Dre running from outside the key trying to go over the backs of 3 defenders boxing him out is much better than him getting good position(which literally has been the difference between last years dre and this years), then your simply not living in reality. furthermore, you completely ignore offensive spacing . Quite easy to ask "wtf are you talking about".

I didn't expect my initial post to require this much explanation. I thought it was pretty straightforward,

Well that's because you thought your initial post was right, which in a vacuum where you can control the whole situation, you maybe, but in reality, asking your center to always be on the look out to stay out of the play and then get back into it while a teams consciously trying to keep you away is not smart bball. nor is going 4-5 on offense. Its actually quite easy to see why SVG removes dre, at times.

It's mind boggling that someone can turn a one sentence comment that it's more advantageous for Dre to get a rebound + FTs than no rebound at all into this big of a deal. It's almost to the point where it's impossible to respond to any of your posts about anything w/o getting bombarded with 5 pages of multi-quotes.

The fact that I even have to argue his ability as a rebounder is a joke. I shouldn't have to explain all the different ways he can avoid FTs under 2 min in close games, when he has closed almost all of our games and only taken 15 FTs all year in those situations. You need to explain why you think something that happens that infrequently is so hard to avoid.

[Blkbrd671]

Please stop arguing this. Now Dre isn't a clutch rebounder?

He's 2nd in the league in 2nd chance points per game in the last 2 minutes of games decided by 5 pts or less.

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#!/clutch/misc/?sort=PTS_2ND_CHANCE&dir=1&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&ClutchTime=Last%202%20Minutes&CF=GP*GE*15

Damn thank goodness he narrowly beat KENT BAZEMORE AND AMINU.

Did you really need a stat to know that?

Moreso you were throwing out stats that were irrelevant, the discussion was relevance of "clutch rebounds" in closing moments and you brought season average into the discussion. And yes, you should provide actual substance to your argument point, "because Todd said so" means as much as "because blkbrd said so". Though i know i have more bravado

He is also 3rd in the league behind LeBron and Cousins in points in the paint per game in the last 2 minutes.


Neither would be possible if teams were just fouling him at all times in the last 2 min like you are claiming. Do you not understand the rule or what? No intentional fouls allowed off the ball in the last 2 min if a player is not involved in the play.

watch the film and listen to SVG's post games. If i were to take this debate point seriously, your essentially saying SVG takes Dre out in the last 2 minutes because baynes is the better center. Since "intentional fouls" aren't a problem.

Dre also is
top 10 in FT in the last 2 minutes
Top 10 in allowing points in the paint in the last 2 min
Not in the top 20 in blks in the last 2 min

All he has to do is clear the lane for a few seconds while Reggie is penetrating and then he can go for the rebound as soon as Reggie shoots. What is so difficult to understand about this?

when i read your post, i can tell you watched any film.

If you think that Dre running from outside the key trying to go over the backs of 3 defenders boxing him out is much better than him getting good position(which literally has been the difference between last years dre and this years), then your simply not living in reality. furthermore, you completely ignore offensive spacing . Quite easy to ask "wtf are you talking about".

I didn't expect my initial post to require this much explanation. I thought it was pretty straightforward,

Well that's because you thought your initial post was right, which in a vacuum where you can control the whole situation, you maybe, but in reality, asking your center to always be on the look out to stay out of the play and then get back into it while a teams consciously trying to keep you away is not smart bball. nor is going 4-5 on offense. Its actually quite easy to see why SVG removes dre, at times.

It's mind boggling that someone can turn a one sentence comment that it's more advantageous for Dre to get a rebound + FTs than no rebound at all into this big of a deal. It's almost to the point where it's impossible to respond to any of your posts about anything w/o getting bombarded with 5 pages of multi-quotes.

The fact that I even have to argue his ability as a rebounder is a joke. I shouldn't have to explain all the different ways he can avoid FTs under 2 min in close games, when he has closed almost all of our games and only taken 15 FTs all year in those situations. You need to explain why you think something that happens that infrequently is so hard to avoid.

more so you can't explain it, which is obvious in this thread. if you don't want me quoting your post, then stop replying to me and come up with legitimate arguments. I am going to side with our coach on this argument

[Todd3]

Damn thank goodness he narrowly beat KENT BAZEMORE AND AMINU.



Moreso you were throwing out stats that were irrelevant, the discussion was relevance of "clutch rebounds" in closing moments and you brought season average into the discussion. And yes, you should provide actual substance to your argument point, "because Todd said so" means as much as "because blkbrd said so". Though i know i have more bravado




watch the film and listen to SVG's post games. If i were to take this debate point seriously, your essentially saying SVG takes Dre out in the last 2 minutes because baynes is the better center. Since "intentional fouls" aren't a problem.

Dre also is
top 10 in FT in the last 2 minutes
Top 10 in allowing points in the paint in the last 2 min
Not in the top 20 in blks in the last 2 min





when i read your post, i can tell you watched any film.

If you think that Dre running from outside the key trying to go over the backs of 3 defenders boxing him out is much better than him getting good position(which literally has been the difference between last years dre and this years), then your simply not living in reality. furthermore, you completely ignore offensive spacing . Quite easy to ask "wtf are you talking about".




Well that's because you thought your initial post was right, which in a vacuum where you can control the whole situation, you maybe, but in reality, asking your center to always be on the look out to stay out of the play and then get back into it while a teams consciously trying to keep you away is not smart bball. nor is going 4-5 on offense. Its actually quite easy to see why SVG removes dre, at times.

It's mind boggling that someone can turn a one sentence comment that it's more advantageous for Dre to get a rebound + FTs than no rebound at all into this big of a deal. It's almost to the point where it's impossible to respond to any of your posts about anything w/o getting bombarded with 5 pages of multi-quotes.

The fact that I even have to argue his ability as a rebounder is a joke. I shouldn't have to explain all the different ways he can avoid FTs under 2 min in close games, when he has closed almost all of our games and only taken 15 FTs all year in those situations. You need to explain why you think something that happens that infrequently is so hard to avoid.

more so you can't explain it, which is obvious in this thread. if you don't want me quoting your post, then stop replying to me and come up with legitimate arguments. I am going to side with our coach on this argument

It's already been explained 10x over. It's not my problem if you can't comprehend it and are paranoid about him getting fouled, despite there being a rule in place to prevent it (and it rarely happening).

Siding with our coach who has finished almost every game with Drummond this year doesn't support your argument, by the way.