KCP is going to get PAID next summer...

[coordinator0]

KCP 20+ million a year? That is outrageous yo.

I'm expecting KCP to get paid... by someone else and for it to be sink or swim time for Stanley Johnson. I know we didn't draft him 8th overall to be a backup. He could probably be a lot more dynamic and multi-dimesional too. If going by his 4 game stats starting at SG (13ppg, 7.3 rebounds, 4.0 assists, 0.8 steals). Small sample size, but he can fill up a stat sheet with starters minutes. He shot worse than KCP though... and that's an understatement, it was pretty ghastly to be honest. So of course I'm hoping for significant improvement there. Ugh

He won't be for long. Johnson is going to take Morris' spot in the starting lineup. I know Marcus played a ton of minutes last season but that was a byproduct of the team not really having any other option. Stanley as a rookie wasn't taking big minutes there and then there was Bullock and Hilliard for other wings. No real reason to play them over Morris. Harris started at the other forward spot after he came in so his addition help much for depth.

Tobias might be the one moved to the bench if Van Gundy wants someone who might be a bit better at masquerading as a power forward but I have no doubts Johnson will be starting for one of them soon. His fit at shooting guard isn't great especially when he can't really switch with Jackson on defense. That's important when Reggie needs to be put on the easiest matchup the team can find for him.

[DBC10]

^Plus if SJ gets switched on to Kyrie or Curry type players, it'll be an easy basket almost every time. The guy isn't equipped to handle guards. No matter how much IQ he has. We need to minimize his playing time at the 2.

[mattao313]

Whats interesting is SVG has did nothing to "upgrade" the SG position on our team. He drafted Hilliard and Gbinije cause he thought they were BPA (though Hilliard was a top 25 talent and loved Gbinije for his versatilty and defensive potential).

Meeks asked for a trade which most likely means he was told he wouldn't get any minutes. Rumors SVG would trade for Eric Gordon but didn't even attempt to sign him even though he only signed for like 13mil a year, He never went after Fournier hard either, he could have offered something in FA.

So either he thinks KCP is fine there or Bullock and Hillard will take his place. Seem more of the former since he barely played Bullock and Hilliard and they haven't shown a ton either.

Real talk and agreed.

If he really wanted one of Fournier or Eric Gordon, he would've been prioritizing them over the likes of Horford, Leuer, and Ish Smith. Which basically means that SVG thought the positions he needed to prioritize in upgrade were backup PG and PF/C. Plus, GMs in the league inquire about other players all the time, the narrative that he went somewhat "hard" for Fournier is unjustified. It might've been a simple, "hey Hennigan, thrown in Fournier and we'll give you a future pick along with the Tobias package, yes or nah?". Really, really simple and nothing that needs to warrant heavy speculation.

Who also gives a care about what SVG thought he was going to draft or he might have liked in the draft too. It's all moot because KCP is still here, and leads the league in minutes.

Pretty damn clear. Then again, some really live for this lifestyle, one of unnecessarily analyzing for the hell of it when it's really a dead end. That lifestyle is quite sad to be frank.

Exactly and when you compare it to the other positions and how they were handled its a big difference:

-Jennings got hurt and SVG immediately trades for Reggie which was probably the most we traded in a trade.
-We were terrible at SF, SVG drafts Stanley goes into FA and targets Danny Green and Demarre Carrol both can play SF. He later trades for Marcus Morris and said he would have been made the move and not even looked at FA.
- Traded for Ersan to address the PF position and 50 games into the season trades for another PF in Tobias.
- Center is the only other position that had no major moves.

SVG&Co are quick to make moves so its obvious he has interest in KCP being the starter here. Just like the majority here, he probably wants to see how his 3pt shooting progresses cause that is the biggest knock on his game. KCP shooting 35%+ is a nice piece to have.

[DBC10]

Whats interesting is SVG has did nothing to "upgrade" the SG position on our team. He drafted Hilliard and Gbinije cause he thought they were BPA (though Hilliard was a top 25 talent and loved Gbinije for his versatilty and defensive potential).

Meeks asked for a trade which most likely means he was told he wouldn't get any minutes. Rumors SVG would trade for Eric Gordon but didn't even attempt to sign him even though he only signed for like 13mil a year, He never went after Fournier hard either, he could have offered something in FA.

So either he thinks KCP is fine there or Bullock and Hillard will take his place. Seem more of the former since he barely played Bullock and Hilliard and they haven't shown a ton either.

Real talk and agreed.

If he really wanted one of Fournier or Eric Gordon, he would've been prioritizing them over the likes of Horford, Leuer, and Ish Smith. Which basically means that SVG thought the positions he needed to prioritize in upgrade were backup PG and PF/C. Plus, GMs in the league inquire about other players all the time, the narrative that he went somewhat "hard" for Fournier is unjustified. It might've been a simple, "hey Hennigan, thrown in Fournier and we'll give you a future pick along with the Tobias package, yes or nah?". Really, really simple and nothing that needs to warrant heavy speculation.

Who also gives a care about what SVG thought he was going to draft or he might have liked in the draft too. It's all moot because KCP is still here, and leads the league in minutes.

Pretty damn clear. Then again, some really live for this lifestyle, one of unnecessarily analyzing for the hell of it when it's really a dead end. That lifestyle is quite sad to be frank.

Exactly and when you compare it to the other positions and how they were handled its a big difference:

-Jennings got hurt and SVG immediately trades for Reggie which was probably the most we traded in a trade.
-We were terrible at SF, SVG drafts Stanley goes into FA and targets Danny Green and Demarre Carrol both can play SF. He later trades for Marcus Morris and said he would have been made the move and not even looked at FA.
- Traded for Ersan to address the PF position and 50 games into the season trades for another PF in Tobias.
- Center is the only other position that had no major moves.

SVG&Co are quick to make moves so its obvious he has interest in KCP being the starter here. Just like the majority here, he probably wants to see how his 3pt shooting progresses cause that is the biggest knock on his game. KCP shooting 35%+ is a nice piece to have.

The key to him sniffing 35% 3 pt shot is getting his minutes down. If I recall correctly, his per game splits between the first and second half wildly differ. Primarily due to him being gassed guarding the Currys, Lillards, and Kyries of the world while logging top 5 in minutes of all players. 1st half splits are 46/34% while the 2nd is 38/28%.

Really simple to deduce that fatigue is getting to him even though he runs every fast break and is the first to touchdown. If Bullock can take about 20 minutes or even Hilliard can step up, it would be huge for KCP this year. We're a really deep team on paper.

[Todd3]

Meeks injury gave KCP the clear path...but he's kept it because he's keeping SVG happy enough

Otherwise we trade for EG, or draft a SG, or sign one.

It could be he kept it because he kept SVG happy, or could just be by default because SVG simply had no other option after Meeks.

It was either him or 2 rookies/Bullock (none of which had any starting exp and KCP did).

But if Stan was 100% happy with him, he wouldn't have been pursuing other starting SGs. So I tend to side with the other reason.

Not getting the deals done or choosing other players in the draft doesn't necessarily mean he committed to KCP instead. It could just be he thought SJ/Ellenson were better than Booker/Beasley, decided he didn't want to give up a 1st rd pick for Gordon, and got turned down for Fournier. The fact that he was seriously considering the moves in the first place is the point, as it's an indication he's not 100% sold on him as his SG. Because when a President is set on a player, they're not continually pursuing other starting caliber players at their position.

How many reports have there been about us pursuing other starting C's/PG's in FA/trades/draft? None, because Stan is 100% set on Dre/Reggie. Can't say the same about KCP and that's the only point I'm making. Which is important to note when trying to determine how committed they are to resigning him and how much they're willing to pay.

[Blkbrd671]

There were also reports this season that we tried to acquire Fournier and considered trading a 1st rd pick for Eric Gordon.

Only Todd3 takes his own opinion and quotes it as a "REPORT". I can not find 1 credible source indicating that we at all are interested in either of those 2 players.

So Todd finds a credible source for each after you accuse him of making it up, and when he provides them you move the goal posts.

I literally couldn't find one credible source other than "Detroit should try to acquire" articles from DBB referencing and Rod Beard's article. You know, beat writers quoting each other as sources. Hence i don't think his point was relevant. He finds credible source, making his point relevant, so i continue the discussion of KCP vs Gordon or Fournier. Would it make you feel better if i stated. "Great job Todd3 on finding the credible source, my bad!". Well i just said it. So now can i continue the other discussion? how does this work?

[Blkbrd671]

Zach Lowe is a credible reporter. His personal opinions on players has nothing to do with the report.

Fair point you found your credible source.

Just adding that a Credible Reporter thinks it was a great move not trading a first round pick for your beloved E Gordon.

For the record: when i did try to find your credible source, i only found writers referring to each others opinions. Furthermore i didn't consider the discussions in the Tobias trade as targeting fournier. After reading the report from Lowe, it does say we are interested, but again, i don't think it was to replace KCP.

Your logic doesn't make sense on either trade. If Stan viewed Gordon as just a backup all along, why would they be considering trading a 1st rd pick for him in the first place?

RJ
KCP
Mook
Illy
Dre

Jennings
Sj
+
Worst Bench in the league

Any first round pick is a bench player anyways, we were trying to make the playoffs. Having a play maker who is injury prone come off the bench would be ideal as you could monitor his minutes. Feel free to argue that svg would replace his most trusted player with a a player that not 1 team can trust to stay healthy. Maybe we were going to trade RJ, since E Gordon is a pg and all.

Same for Fournier. If he didn't fit what SVG wants, why was he trying to trade for him?

I assume you misread the Woj article too, because it didn't say we didn't want to trade for Fournier because he wasn't worth it. It said we tried to trade for him and the Magic were the ones who didn't want to trade him.

So if we offered Andre Drummond, they would have said no? lol

i'll admit, the article is not specific enough to determine either way, however being that we did trade for Tobias , i am sure there was more discussion other than,
SVG: "Hey we want Fournier"
Orl: "No".
SVG: "Tobias?"
Orl: "YES!"

In realm of reality there was discussions and ultimately fournier wasn't worth the asking price because we had KCP already.

When you look at the worst bench in the league last year, its quite easy to see why we'd try to acquire Fournier to replace a struggling SJ.

Or maybe SVG watched the game tape of KCP completely shut Fournier down and decided he wasn't worth it

[joedumars1]

I think if we did get Fournier svg had a plan to have home come off the bench and try to be our instant offense with sj as the facilitator. I think Fournier might of played SF too with Orlando. I'm not sure, but think he did. So he could've played some of that for us too

[Blkbrd671]

On Meeks:



http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2014/07/stan_van_gundy_jodie_meeks_vs.html

At one point in time you indicated that SVG didn't take enough time to evaluate players, but your okay with his first signing in which he barely had enough resources to do proper scouting? Also he just traded that same player away. Not only is that more relevant but a better indicator of Meeks value to this team

Who said I was ok with the Meeks signing? I said he was signed because the front office wasn't sold on KCP as a starter.

1.) It is not unusual for a Team to not be sold on a player entering his 2nd season
2.) Its a lot easier to be sold when the said player is absolutely destroying the SL and PReseason
3.) He was signed because SVG needed shooting on a team almost last in shooting. Furthermore he also referred to signing as a "single", not a home run.
4.) i'll agree that Meeks was brought in to give KCP some comp, but what i am also stating is that in the end, Meeks wasn't comp for KCP.

5.) Meeks has been healthy last season but only got garbage time while KCP plays more mpg than almost everyone in the league despite shooting below average from 3point.

6.) Meeks was traded away because we have 2 players who are essentially sophomores because they have more versatility.

So in context, its easy to see, why at that time we acquired meeks, and why he was traded.

Stan was pretty clear how he valued Meeks at the time - as someone to compete with KCP for the starting job and provide spacing for the starters - but he never got the chance to because he was sidelined to start both years.

He was then traded to clear cap space because he couldn't stay healthy.

How is that an indicator of how the Pistons valued him when they signed him?

He was healthy for at least the last 3rd of the season and only got garbage time. Meeks was highly valued when our roster was sh*, now in a much more complete roster, he's a expendable player where KCP is a core.

[Blkbrd671]

I think if we did get Fournier svg had a plan to have home come off the bench and try to be our instant offense with sj as the facilitator. I think Fournier might of played SF too with Orlando. I'm not sure, but think he did. So he could've played some of that for us too

in small ball lineups, he did play a forward, and i think he's got decent length. His problem is he can't defend either position worth sh*. I would love Fournier off the bench with SJ, however i do think Hilliard will prove to be a much better and cheaper option. Apparently they also think Hilliard can be good defensively with added strength.

[Blkbrd671]

I had a dream last night (or should it be classified as a nightmare?) that we traded KCP and Baynes for Brandon Knight.

Why does Baynes become the throw in!?

Poor Arron

[Blkbrd671]

Whats interesting is SVG has did nothing to "upgrade" the SG position on our team. He drafted Hilliard and Gbinije cause he though they were BPA (though Hilliard was a top 25 talent and loved Gbinije for his versatilty and defensive potential).

Meeks asked for a trade which most likely means he was told he wouldn't get any minutes. Rumors SVG would trade for Eric Gordon but didn't even attempt to sign him even though he only signed for like 13mil a year, He never went after Fournier hard either, he could have offered something in FA.

So either he thinks KCP is fine there or Bullock and Hillard will take his place. Seem more of the former since he barely played Bullock and Hilliard and they haven't shown a ton either.

I think that's the next move. I wouldn't be shocked to see Baynes and Bullock moved for a backup 2 or something.

I strongly disagree just simply becuase i think SVG values Bullocks ability to defend 2-4 positions and 3 point shooting which so glimmers of being elite, and Baynes isn't going anywhere until Babo proves he's capable, which i think he's still a year away. Additionally Meeks was traded because of his confidence in Bullock or Hilliard to be the backup, it be a contradictory move.

I think my biggest harp on this idea is that i feel we aren't getting the better deal if its a backup SG, and i don't think SVG does any deals in which he doesn't feel he's won. Or at least it seems that way. If that backup SG is JJ Reddick, i'll quickly STFU!

[coordinator0]

I think if we did get Fournier svg had a plan to have home come off the bench and try to be our instant offense with sj as the facilitator. I think Fournier might of played SF too with Orlando. I'm not sure, but think he did. So he could've played some of that for us too

Yeah, Fournier played some small forward in Orlando with Payton at point guard and Oladipo at shooting guard. I think that was more of a necessity to get the best players on the court than any indication he actually should play at the three though. His best fit by far is at shooting guard, and I would be hesitant to put the interchangeable wing label on him too. Pretty much just like Caldwell-Pope. Both are guards.

If Detroit were able to wrangle Fournier away from Orlando in the trade Caldwell-Pope would have been shipped out before this upcoming trade deadline. No way the Pistons would have re-signed Evan this summer and Kentavious next summer. Only makes sense to get value for the latter when they could before losing him for nothing.

For what it's worth I don't think the Pistons would have been able to re-sign Fournier to the 5-year, $85 million deal the Magic got him at. That sounded like a discount for a team/city he liked playing for.

[Blkbrd671]

I think if we did get Fournier svg had a plan to have home come off the bench and try to be our instant offense with sj as the facilitator. I think Fournier might of played SF too with Orlando. I'm not sure, but think he did. So he could've played some of that for us too

Yeah, Fournier played some small forward in Orlando with Payton at point guard and Oladipo at shooting guard. I think that was more of a necessity to get the best players on the court than any indication he actually should play at the three though. His best fit by far is at shooting guard, and I would be hesitant to put the interchangeable wing label on him too. Pretty much just like Caldwell-Pope. Both are guards.

If Detroit were able to wrangle Fournier away from Orlando in the trade Caldwell-Pope would have been shipped out before this upcoming trade deadline. No way the Pistons would have re-signed Evan this summer and Kentavious next summer. Only makes sense to get value for the latter when they could before losing him for nothing.

For what it's worth I don't think the Pistons would have been able to re-sign Fournier to the 5-year, $85 million deal the Magic got him at. That sounded like a discount for a team/city he liked playing for.

not really, i think its the combination of FA SG's available and the fact that he has very real questions on defense. I actually think that deal is FV considering all the other contracts. Additionally no state tax in Florida so that 85 million dollar contract is actually a 113 million ish contract else where. (I'd most definitely check my calculation)