ImageImageImage

Best move of SVG era

Moderators: dVs33, Cowology, theBigLip, Snakebites

What is the best move of SVG era?

Releasing Smith
28
43%
Not extending Monroe
6
9%
Extending Drummond
1
2%
Trading Meeks
0
No votes
Obtain/Extend Jackson
11
17%
Obtain Morris
12
18%
Obtain Harris
3
5%
Draft Johnson
1
2%
Sign Baynes
1
2%
Other
2
3%
 
Total votes: 65

Todd3
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,461
And1: 2,086
Joined: Nov 05, 2010

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Best move of SVG era 

Post#221 » by Todd3 » Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:39 am

Pharaoh wrote:
Todd3 wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:
Let's assume you signed 1 year vet minimums for the remaining roster spots this off-season...does your squad make the playoffs?

Dre, Baynes, Vet
Harris, King, Vet
Mook, SJ
KCP, Bull, Hilly
RJ, Vet, Benji

Let's assume they do and get beat in Round 1 (which is possible despite us spending big)

You then let the 3 Vets walk, let KCP walk and you've got your $25 mil or thereabouts to replace KCP....

Dre, Who
Harris, King
Mook, SJ
Who, Who, Hilliard
RJ, Who, Benji

You've got 2 draft picks and $25 mil to turn that into a potential top 4 team in the Conference!

Ready?
Set.
Go!

Good luck bro


What was the point of excluding the part where I already explained this and then asking the same thing again? lol

I just told you I'd either sign Redick or Bullock and save the rest. Can't do anything about upgrading SF/PF in FA as we're committed to Morris/Harris for 3 more years. So address the issue at SG, add some vet min backups, keep working trades and evaluate again the next summer.

In other words, build the same team we have now except for better SG play and more cap flexibility to keep building.

You rather have issues at SG and no money instead?


What you're excluding is that by signing vet minimum guys and stop gap options (which Bullock or Redick would be) is the Joe Dumars BS that got us in trouble in the first place!

Everybody saw the potential we had last season. Even youcan't deny that.

By not going "all in" with signings now you're dooming the team to a never ending "process" where you sit on your cap space, hoping to land "better" options that may NEVER come!

That's not a good way to go and SVG has stated numerous times that method was NOT possible due to the 5 years before he arrived.

Gores wanted to win games without sacrificing our future. You're not winning games by sitting on $20+ mil in cap space - you're deliberately hoarding an asset waiting to strike.

We did strike! That's what Boban, Ish, JL are! We signed 3 guys that one can argue are underpaid!

I pay no mind to you continuing your never ending mission (destroy KCP) but the idea that we waste a year or 3 in the hope of improving our SG & bench is ridiculous.

We improved our bench! Now you've only got one thing to whinge about - & you'll whinge about that regardless


Pretty sure the Dumars method was capping us out with ill-fitting average talent on long-term deals. Which is the exact opposite of what I'm saying and I'm not going over this again.
User avatar
Pharaoh
RealGM
Posts: 16,443
And1: 4,742
Joined: Aug 10, 2001

Re: Best move of SVG era 

Post#222 » by Pharaoh » Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:49 am

Yes mate, whinge means whine
tmorgan
RealGM
Posts: 14,265
And1: 9,750
Joined: Feb 04, 2005
Location: San Francisco, CA
   

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Best move of SVG era 

Post#223 » by tmorgan » Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:51 am

Todd3 wrote:Pretty sure the Dumars method was capping us out with ill-fitting average talent on long-term deals. Which is the exact opposite of what I'm saying and I'm not going over this again.


Indeed it was, towards the end of his tenure here.

Is this what you think Bower/SVG are doing? Do you think we have ill-fitting average talent on long-term deals now?

If yes, we disagree about a core issue and it isn't worth discussing. We're Adam Smith and Karl Marx.

If no, then what happened under Dumars isn't relevant. I've read and understand your stance about maintaining cap flexibility, but acquiring players on average or better deals doesn't sacrifice cap flexibility, because such players can always be traded. To me, we're not stuck with Leuer or Boban or Ish or anyone else acquired previously, because all of those deals are solid or better in the current market.

For example, imagine the unlikely happens and Henry Ellenson REALLY breaks out this season. He gets a chance to play and shines. His defensive awareness improves exponentially, and his silky Dirk-y shot is falling. Suddenly, he's earned himself a rotation spot for 20 minutes a game. Do you think the Pistons will have any trouble trading Jon Leuer if that happens? I don't, and that's the point. The money needed to be spent, because the cap space was about to disappear anyway. As others have written, even if we didn't sign anyone and you got your wish and we traded KCP (for nothing but expirings or picks), we're still only looking at about 25 million in space for next season, and that's with a hole at SG, no backup PG of consequence, and no backup C at all after Baynes leaves. Progress, morale, attractiveness to future players... those are real things to consider. We may be capped out, but we're still plenty flexible with the contracts we have, so what's the problem?

Again, despite the bizarre way you go about framing it, I understand your trepidation about giving a big deal to KCP. There's definitely some risk there. Still, I'm pretty sure he's a valued commodity around the NBA, and I'm very sure SVG likes him as a player, so the risk isn't particularly high. If SVG thinks we need him, we need him. It's as simple as that, and not because I'm blind to the possibility that SVG could be wrong, but because he's the one that sees the improvement, the defense, and the slowly developing offensive game that KCP shows. For whatever reason, you're missing how important KCP is to this team.
User avatar
BadMofoPimp
RealGM
Posts: 48,961
And1: 12,465
Joined: Oct 12, 2003
Location: In the Paint

Re: Best move of SVG era 

Post#224 » by BadMofoPimp » Mon Aug 22, 2016 1:19 pm

SBG's best move was easily:

Image

Provin Ya'll Wrong!!!
In SVG We Trust
Starter
Posts: 2,016
And1: 1,399
Joined: Mar 14, 2016
   

Re: Best move of SVG era 

Post#225 » by In SVG We Trust » Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:13 pm

I don't know why you guys still argue with this kid. Don't take him serious, he's another maker with more spare time.
User avatar
Manocad
RealGM
Posts: 69,969
And1: 10,562
Joined: Dec 13, 2005
Location: Middle Fingerton
Contact:
       

Re: Best move of SVG era 

Post#226 » by Manocad » Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:54 pm

Pharaoh wrote:Yes mate, whinge means whine

Is that a misspelling or an Australian spelling? I'm assuming Australian as I have friends in Oz and they use "mate" a lot.
Image
Todd3
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,461
And1: 2,086
Joined: Nov 05, 2010

Re: Best move of SVG era 

Post#227 » by Todd3 » Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:36 pm

Sports Illustrated gave the Pistons offseason a C.

Best Move: Assembling a bench. Detroit had a nice showing last season, all things considered. But fact that the Pistons managed a playoff trip and stayed healthy while playing Kentavious Caldwell-Pope 40 minutes a night and Marcus Morris for 36 is a small miracle. Stan Van Gundy addressed those issues immediately this summer. With Ish Smith, Jon Leuer and Boban Marjanovic (!) in the mix and rookie Henry Ellenson potentially able to offer some help, Detroit turned one of the East’s thinnest benches into a potential strength. — J.W.

Worst Move: All the frontcourt investment. The Pistons rightfully added depth to their iffy bench with the moves above, but Detroit still desperately lacks outside shooting from its guards. Reggie Jackson is the only regular rotational player who shot respectably from three last year, and he was far from lights out. The additions of Leuer and Ellenson can and will help, but Detroit’s lack of shooting from positions one through three will continue to make Andre Drummond’s life hard in a crowded paint. — R.N.

The Skinny: Detroit’s summer shouldn’t inspire adoration or outrage. Stan Van Gundy and company will run back the entire starting lineup that returned the Pistons to the playoffs in 2016. The only difference? Franchise center Andre Drummond will return on a max contract extension, a steep pay increase that was both deserved and fully anticipated.

The Pistons spent the rest of their off-season energy reshaping their second unit, with questionable and expensive results. Giving Ish Smith $18 million over three years to wipe away the memories of Steve Blake? Worth it. Paying journeyman Jon Leuer $42 million over four years to offer minutes as a stretch four? That’s rough, but it’s arguably better than paying Ryan Anderson twice that to do the same job. Rolling the dice on Boban Marjanovic to the tune of $21 million over three years? That seems excessive, especially because Aron Baynes is already filling the “overpaid former Spurs backup center” slot.


NBA
Top 50 games of the 2016-17 NBA season


Putting these moves together, Van Gundy added depth and experience to a young team whose starting lineup collectively enjoyed excellent health last season. Detroit is now better positioned to withstand injuries and it boasts an improved ability to shift between jumbo and stretch looks as needed, but for the second straight summer Van Gundy sunk a heck of a lot of money into a roster whose ceiling remains fairly low.

Kudos to Pistons ownership for agreeing to spend well over $100 million in payroll, but the baby steps this organization is taking towards contention are coming at an exorbitant price. Down the road, Detroit should be able to trade itself out of its expensive cap position if need be. This isn’t a calamity with no way out, but those hoping for prudent, value-driven roster-building will need to look elsewhere. — Ben Golliver

Grade: C


http://www.si.com/nba/2016/08/22/nba-central-division-grades-lebron-james-cavaliers-bulls-pacers
hoophabit
Analyst
Posts: 3,698
And1: 1,420
Joined: Jan 19, 2002
 

Re: Best move of SVG era 

Post#228 » by hoophabit » Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:20 pm

Todd3 wrote:Sports Illustrated gave the Pistons offseason a C.

Best Move: Assembling a bench. Detroit had a nice showing last season, all things considered. But fact that the Pistons managed a playoff trip and stayed healthy while playing Kentavious Caldwell-Pope 40 minutes a night and Marcus Morris for 36 is a small miracle. Stan Van Gundy addressed those issues immediately this summer. With Ish Smith, Jon Leuer and Boban Marjanovic (!) in the mix and rookie Henry Ellenson potentially able to offer some help, Detroit turned one of the East’s thinnest benches into a potential strength. — J.W.

Worst Move: All the frontcourt investment. The Pistons rightfully added depth to their iffy bench with the moves above, but Detroit still desperately lacks outside shooting from its guards. Reggie Jackson is the only regular rotational player who shot respectably from three last year, and he was far from lights out. The additions of Leuer and Ellenson can and will help, but Detroit’s lack of shooting from positions one through three will continue to make Andre Drummond’s life hard in a crowded paint. — R.N.

The Skinny: Detroit’s summer shouldn’t inspire adoration or outrage. Stan Van Gundy and company will run back the entire starting lineup that returned the Pistons to the playoffs in 2016. The only difference? Franchise center Andre Drummond will return on a max contract extension, a steep pay increase that was both deserved and fully anticipated.

The Pistons spent the rest of their off-season energy reshaping their second unit, with questionable and expensive results. Giving Ish Smith $18 million over three years to wipe away the memories of Steve Blake? Worth it. Paying journeyman Jon Leuer $42 million over four years to offer minutes as a stretch four? That’s rough, but it’s arguably better than paying Ryan Anderson twice that to do the same job. Rolling the dice on Boban Marjanovic to the tune of $21 million over three years? That seems excessive, especially because Aron Baynes is already filling the “overpaid former Spurs backup center” slot.


NBA
Top 50 games of the 2016-17 NBA season


Putting these moves together, Van Gundy added depth and experience to a young team whose starting lineup collectively enjoyed excellent health last season. Detroit is now better positioned to withstand injuries and it boasts an improved ability to shift between jumbo and stretch looks as needed, but for the second straight summer Van Gundy sunk a heck of a lot of money into a roster whose ceiling remains fairly low.

Kudos to Pistons ownership for agreeing to spend well over $100 million in payroll, but the baby steps this organization is taking towards contention are coming at an exorbitant price. Down the road, Detroit should be able to trade itself out of its expensive cap position if need be. This isn’t a calamity with no way out, but those hoping for prudent, value-driven roster-building will need to look elsewhere. — Ben Golliver

Grade: C


http://www.si.com/nba/2016/08/22/nba-central-division-grades-lebron-james-cavaliers-bulls-pacers


Well, if it's chapter and verse from a sacred source, what can you say? :wink:
Todd3
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,461
And1: 2,086
Joined: Nov 05, 2010

Re: Best move of SVG era 

Post#229 » by Todd3 » Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:44 pm

David Aldridge ranked the Pistons 20th in his offseason grades

20. DETROIT PISTONS
2015-16 RECORD: 44-38; lost in first round

ADDED: F Jon Leuer (four years, $41 million); C Boban Marjanovic (three years, $21 million); G Ish Smith (three years, $18 million); G Ray McCallum (one year, $1 million); F Henry Ellenson (first round, 18th pick overall); F Michael Gbinije (second round, 49th pick overall)
LOST: F Anthony Tolliver (signed with Sacramento); G Jodie Meeks (traded to Orlando)
RETAINED: C Andre Drummond (five years, $127 million); G Darrun Hilliard (guaranteed 2016-17 contract)

THE KEY MAN: G Kentavious Caldwell-Pope. In this day and age, a two guard who only shoots 42 percent overall and 31 percent on 3-pointers is in jeopardy. He's up for an extension this season as well, only adding to the pressure. Detroit has invested big money into Reggie Jackson, Tobias Harris and, now, Drummond. If KCP wants his taste, he's going to have to shoot better. Point blank.

THE SKINNY: No one thought Detroit would lose Drummond, so while no nine-figure deal is a "formality," it wasn't a shock to the system. The Pistons' rotation is set, but it was a little surprising to see coach/team president Stan Van Gundy put $10 million per into Leuer, a good player in Phoenix who nonetheless only played 19 minutes a game off the bench. After raiding the Spurs for another big in Marjanovic (Detroit signed Aron Baynes last summer), the Pistons now have a lot of depth if Drummond gets in foul trouble (as he is wont to do). Van Gundy opted to trade for players under contract rather than take a shot at free agency this summer. If he was right, his guys will need to get better.


http://www.nba.com/news/features/david_aldridge/morning-tip-david-aldridge-2016-offseason-grades-the-middle-10/index.html
DBC10
General Manager
Posts: 9,963
And1: 2,829
Joined: Jun 01, 2013
 

Re: Best move of SVG era 

Post#230 » by DBC10 » Wed Aug 24, 2016 1:03 am

No surprises there. The media has never given the Pistons a good grade but not without bad reputation from spending it on bums like Gordon, Villanueva, Stuckey, and the most infamous, Josh Smith in the past. Even after having a playoff berth since 6 years ago, the media still doesn't give respect to the org. Which again, is expected. I don't know why this is implied as surprise or taken as holy revelation.

Hilarious.

So I'm inclined to not form my wholesome opinions from hot takes here and there. But some are welcome to do so, as they oft do.
User avatar
Manocad
RealGM
Posts: 69,969
And1: 10,562
Joined: Dec 13, 2005
Location: Middle Fingerton
Contact:
       

Re: Best move of SVG era 

Post#231 » by Manocad » Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:14 am

Especially anything that paints KCP in a negative light; I'll bet T(odd3)SE scours the planet for those.
Image
User avatar
Pharaoh
RealGM
Posts: 16,443
And1: 4,742
Joined: Aug 10, 2001

Re: RE: Re: Best move of SVG era 

Post#232 » by Pharaoh » Wed Aug 24, 2016 4:53 am

Todd3 wrote:Sports Illustrated gave the Pistons offseason a C.

Best Move: Assembling a bench. Detroit had a nice showing last season, all things considered. But fact that the Pistons managed a playoff trip and stayed healthy while playing Kentavious Caldwell-Pope 40 minutes a night and Marcus Morris for 36 is a small miracle. Stan Van Gundy addressed those issues immediately this summer. With Ish Smith, Jon Leuer and Boban Marjanovic (!) in the mix and rookie Henry Ellenson potentially able to offer some help, Detroit turned one of the East’s thinnest benches into a potential strength. — J.W.

Worst Move: All the frontcourt investment. The Pistons rightfully added depth to their iffy bench with the moves above, but Detroit still desperately lacks outside shooting from its guards. Reggie Jackson is the only regular rotational player who shot respectably from three last year, and he was far from lights out. The additions of Leuer and Ellenson can and will help, but Detroit’s lack of shooting from positions one through three will continue to make Andre Drummond’s life hard in a crowded paint. — R.N.

The Skinny: Detroit’s summer shouldn’t inspire adoration or outrage. Stan Van Gundy and company will run back the entire starting lineup that returned the Pistons to the playoffs in 2016. The only difference? Franchise center Andre Drummond will return on a max contract extension, a steep pay increase that was both deserved and fully anticipated.

The Pistons spent the rest of their off-season energy reshaping their second unit, with questionable and expensive results. Giving Ish Smith $18 million over three years to wipe away the memories of Steve Blake? Worth it. Paying journeyman Jon Leuer $42 million over four years to offer minutes as a stretch four? That’s rough, but it’s arguably better than paying Ryan Anderson twice that to do the same job. Rolling the dice on Boban Marjanovic to the tune of $21 million over three years? That seems excessive, especially because Aron Baynes is already filling the “overpaid former Spurs backup center” slot.


NBA
Top 50 games of the 2016-17 NBA season


Putting these moves together, Van Gundy added depth and experience to a young team whose starting lineup collectively enjoyed excellent health last season. Detroit is now better positioned to withstand injuries and it boasts an improved ability to shift between jumbo and stretch looks as needed, but for the second straight summer Van Gundy sunk a heck of a lot of money into a roster whose ceiling remains fairly low.

Kudos to Pistons ownership for agreeing to spend well over $100 million in payroll, but the baby steps this organization is taking towards contention are coming at an exorbitant price. Down the road, Detroit should be able to trade itself out of its expensive cap position if need be. This isn’t a calamity with no way out, but those hoping for prudent, value-driven roster-building will need to look elsewhere. — Ben Golliver

Grade: C


http://www.si.com/nba/2016/08/22/nba-central-division-grades-lebron-james-cavaliers-bulls-pacers


Thats a fair assessment IMO

Maybe a little lower than I'd give (B) but that's to be expected
DetroitPistons
RealGM
Posts: 16,113
And1: 3,441
Joined: Apr 19, 2010
Location: Michigan

Re: Best move of SVG era 

Post#233 » by DetroitPistons » Wed Aug 24, 2016 9:31 am

Todd3 wrote:Sports Illustrated gave the Pistons offseason a C.

Best Move: Assembling a bench. Detroit had a nice showing last season, all things considered. But fact that the Pistons managed a playoff trip and stayed healthy while playing Kentavious Caldwell-Pope 40 minutes a night and Marcus Morris for 36 is a small miracle. Stan Van Gundy addressed those issues immediately this summer. With Ish Smith, Jon Leuer and Boban Marjanovic (!) in the mix and rookie Henry Ellenson potentially able to offer some help, Detroit turned one of the East’s thinnest benches into a potential strength. — J.W.

Worst Move: All the frontcourt investment. The Pistons rightfully added depth to their iffy bench with the moves above, but Detroit still desperately lacks outside shooting from its guards. Reggie Jackson is the only regular rotational player who shot respectably from three last year, and he was far from lights out. The additions of Leuer and Ellenson can and will help, but Detroit’s lack of shooting from positions one through three will continue to make Andre Drummond’s life hard in a crowded paint. — R.N.

The Skinny: Detroit’s summer shouldn’t inspire adoration or outrage. Stan Van Gundy and company will run back the entire starting lineup that returned the Pistons to the playoffs in 2016. The only difference? Franchise center Andre Drummond will return on a max contract extension, a steep pay increase that was both deserved and fully anticipated.

The Pistons spent the rest of their off-season energy reshaping their second unit, with questionable and expensive results. Giving Ish Smith $18 million over three years to wipe away the memories of Steve Blake? Worth it. Paying journeyman Jon Leuer $42 million over four years to offer minutes as a stretch four? That’s rough, but it’s arguably better than paying Ryan Anderson twice that to do the same job. Rolling the dice on Boban Marjanovic to the tune of $21 million over three years? That seems excessive, especially because Aron Baynes is already filling the “overpaid former Spurs backup center” slot.


NBA
Top 50 games of the 2016-17 NBA season


Putting these moves together, Van Gundy added depth and experience to a young team whose starting lineup collectively enjoyed excellent health last season. Detroit is now better positioned to withstand injuries and it boasts an improved ability to shift between jumbo and stretch looks as needed, but for the second straight summer Van Gundy sunk a heck of a lot of money into a roster whose ceiling remains fairly low.

Kudos to Pistons ownership for agreeing to spend well over $100 million in payroll, but the baby steps this organization is taking towards contention are coming at an exorbitant price. Down the road, Detroit should be able to trade itself out of its expensive cap position if need be. This isn’t a calamity with no way out, but those hoping for prudent, value-driven roster-building will need to look elsewhere. — Ben Golliver

Grade: C


http://www.si.com/nba/2016/08/22/nba-central-division-grades-lebron-james-cavaliers-bulls-pacers


People forget that acquiring Harris last season was essentially our big offseason move come early. Had we waited until the offseason to make that trade we would be getting around a B+ for our offseason score. SVG was just smart and made a proactive move rather than trying to hit a homerun in FA.
User avatar
bballnmike
Veteran
Posts: 2,671
And1: 1,531
Joined: Jan 17, 2011
Location: Brooklyn, NY
     

Re: Best move of SVG era 

Post#234 » by bballnmike » Wed Aug 24, 2016 2:48 pm

It seems really short sighted anytime someone (including the author of that article) complains about paying both Boban and Baynes. If the Pistons were going all-in to win a championship this year, sure that's a bad move. But look just one season ahead and it's pretty much a given that Baynes won't be around, and the move makes sense.
Image
Chillymo
Sophomore
Posts: 101
And1: 44
Joined: Feb 29, 2016

Re: Best move of SVG era 

Post#235 » by Chillymo » Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:40 pm

Media loves the big moves only. New York Knicks gets a lot of praise because they added a big names like Noah And Rose. Adding players like Luer smith and boban will never win the media. Media offseason and draft grades are honestly a joke. I believe in our front office we needed an upgrade over the corpse of Steve Blake, we needed an upgraded over the one trick pony in tolliver, and we needed another backup center who can replace baynes when he leaves. Casual fans and media don't grasp that each team has a system a player has to learn. Year 1 is always tough for new comers. Our starting 5 is returning and we will win games off that just because of continuity early in the season. Giving our bench time to gel will eventually will us more games down the stretch when we really need them.



Back to the topic lol I still think not extending Monroe was the best move. At the time Monroe was perceived as one of our best players. His low post offense and no defense hendered us in many ways. Letting him walk improved our team and it's not a move that was a no brainer like releasing smith.

Return to Detroit Pistons