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BBall IQ/Brainstorming: Why are Bucks/Bulls overperforming in playoffs?

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BBall IQ/Brainstorming: Why are Bucks/Bulls overperforming in playoffs? 

Post#1 » by vic » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:28 pm

Basketball is a simple game... let's throw out some ideas as to why the Bucks and Bulls are outperforming the Raptors/Celtics.

1. Defense
- Bucks have better defenders than Toronto.
- Bucks have longer players
- Everyone on the Bucks starting lineup is a plus defender. Jason Kidd's not coaching like a fanboy. He actually wants to win.
- Bucks bring their scorers off the bench (Monroe, Beasley) come off the bench.
- Bulls have better rebounders than Celtics
- Rebounding = the last step of defense.
- Celtics bigs are smaller

2. Star Power/Talent level
- Giannis/Middleton = Derozan/Lowry, both teams have star power
- Bucks stars are better at defense. Raptors stars are all offense.
- Butler/Wade/Rondo > Thomas/Horford, Bulls get the edge on star power and talent
- Bulls have 2-way stars. Celtics have 1-way stars (Horford defense, IT offense)

Pistons Takeaways?
- SVG must commit to playing more defenders in the starting lineup and bringing more one-dimensional scorers off the bench, as a principle.
- All of our "stars" if we can call them that (Reggie, Drummond, Tobias) are offensive minded (except for Drummond's rebounding).
- SVG has to put more effort into developing KCP into a 2-way star by giving him the ball more.
- He also should be taking the leash off of Stanley Johnson and letting his talent air itself out. Give him a chance to be the starting 3 and see what you've got.
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Re: BBall IQ/Brainstorming: Why are Bucks/Bulls overperforming in playoffs? 

Post#2 » by MotownMadness » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:54 pm

We played really well like a different team in the playoffs last year as well. I guess it's just the intensity takes over and guys really kick it up a notch.

I agree though it's time to start thinking defense cause SVG focuses to much on acquiring offensive players and we are still terrible offensively.
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Re: BBall IQ/Brainstorming: Why are Bucks/Bulls overperforming in playoffs? 

Post#3 » by DBC10 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:33 pm

What the Bucks have shown me is that length truly does matter when it encompasses all five positions. Even with Monroe (who isn't known more than an average defender at best) looks good too.

It's going to be really interesting if the Bucks face the Cavs if they continue this type of suffocating defense.
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Re: BBall IQ/Brainstorming: Why are Bucks/Bulls overperforming in playoffs? 

Post#4 » by Canadafan » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:40 pm

Ya. When Bulls were awesome back in MJ days they started Harper at PG 6'6". MJ 6'6". Pippen 6'7". Rodman 6'8". And a 7footer
Wouldn't it be nice to get a big defensive PG to go along with KCP and SJ....
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Re: BBall IQ/Brainstorming: Why are Bucks/Bulls overperforming in playoffs? 

Post#5 » by vic » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:46 pm

Canadafan wrote:Ya. When Bulls were awesome back in MJ days they started Harper at PG 6'6". MJ 6'6". Pippen 6'7". Rodman 6'8". And a 7footer
Wouldn't it be nice to get a big defensive PG to go along with KCP and SJ....


dream come true
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Re: BBall IQ/Brainstorming: Why are Bucks/Bulls overperforming in playoffs? 

Post#6 » by vic » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:49 pm

DBC10 wrote:What the Bucks have shown me is that length truly does matter when it encompasses all five positions. Even with Monroe (who isn't known more than an average defender at best) looks good too.

It's going to be really interesting if the Bucks face the Cavs if they continue this type of suffocating defense.


Bucks are only team in the East that can beat the Cavs, and Jason Kidd is a smart enough coach to do it. All Giannis has to do is match Lebron from 3point range... and all Kidd has to do is put Middleton/Brogdon on Kyrie.
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Re: RE: BBall IQ/Brainstorming: Why are Bucks/Bulls overperforming in playoffs? 

Post#7 » by Pharaoh » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:58 pm

vic wrote:Basketball is a simple game... let's throw out some ideas as to why the Bucks and Bulls are outperforming the Raptors/Celtics.

1. Defense
- Bucks have better defenders than Toronto.
- Bucks have longer players
- Everyone on the Bucks starting lineup is a plus defender. Jason Kidd's not coaching like a fanboy. He actually wants to win.
- Bucks bring their scorers off the bench (Monroe, Beasley) come off the bench.
- Bulls have better rebounders than Celtics
- Rebounding = the last step of defense.
- Celtics bigs are smaller

2. Star Power/Talent level
- Giannis/Middleton = Derozan/Lowry, both teams have star power
- Bucks stars are better at defense. Raptors stars are all offense.
- Butler/Wade/Rondo > Thomas/Horford, Bulls get the edge on star power and talent
- Bulls have 2-way stars. Celtics have 1-way stars (Horford defense, IT offense)



Agree with most of that


Pistons Takeaways?
- SVG must commit to playing more defenders in the starting lineup and bringing more one-dimensional scorers off the bench, as a principle.
- All of our "stars" if we can call them that (Reggie, Drummond, Tobias) are offensive minded (except for Drummond's rebounding).


Disagree with any rotation that sees Tobias waiting for RJ to pass him the ball for significant minutes.

RJ is all score first, score 2nd, pass as a last resort. Tobias gets his points in the flow in bunches.

They do not mesh and we shouldn't weaken one for the other.

- SVG has to put more effort into developing KCP into a 2-way star by giving him the ball more.
- He also should be taking the leash off of Stanley Johnson and letting his talent air itself out. Give him a chance to be the starting 3 and see what you've got.


Agree on SJ starting if RJ is starting - disagree with SJ starting if you have RJ on the bench

Agree on KCP

Dre
Mook
Harris
KCP
Ish

Should start - share the ball, Mook defends the best scoring forward.

Bobo/Jon
Jon/King
SJ
Bullock
RJ

That's the bench.

Jon & Bull space the floor, SJ is the 2ndary handler, RJ runs PnR with the C as much as he likes.

Would have worked but SVG was too loyal to RJ - I believe that has changed


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Re: BBall IQ/Brainstorming: Why are Bucks/Bulls overperforming in playoffs? 

Post#8 » by Pharaoh » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:01 pm

BTW:

Bucks are winning because they have more playmakers & shooters than Toronto

Same reason the Bulls are beating the Celtics.

Basketball is a simple game

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Re: BBall IQ/Brainstorming: Why are Bucks/Bulls overperforming in playoffs? 

Post#9 » by Billl » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:05 pm

The bucks aren't overperforming. They were a really good team once they got middleton back.

The Bulls are playing good defense on IT, but how much of that is them and how much of that is that they guys sister just died? The celtics overperformed in the regular season. IT was just dominant, but the rest of the team isn't. The bulls were the opposite with wade sitting for a good chunk of the season.
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Re: RE: BBall IQ/Brainstorming: Why are Bucks/Bulls overperforming in playoffs? 

Post#10 » by vic » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:49 pm

Pharaoh wrote:
vic wrote:Basketball is a simple game... let's throw out some ideas as to why the Bucks and Bulls are outperforming the Raptors/Celtics.

1. Defense
- Bucks have better defenders than Toronto.
- Bucks have longer players
- Everyone on the Bucks starting lineup is a plus defender. Jason Kidd's not coaching like a fanboy. He actually wants to win.
- Bucks bring their scorers off the bench (Monroe, Beasley) come off the bench.
- Bulls have better rebounders than Celtics
- Rebounding = the last step of defense.
- Celtics bigs are smaller

2. Star Power/Talent level
- Giannis/Middleton = Derozan/Lowry, both teams have star power
- Bucks stars are better at defense. Raptors stars are all offense.
- Butler/Wade/Rondo > Thomas/Horford, Bulls get the edge on star power and talent
- Bulls have 2-way stars. Celtics have 1-way stars (Horford defense, IT offense)



Agree with most of that


Pistons Takeaways?
- SVG must commit to playing more defenders in the starting lineup and bringing more one-dimensional scorers off the bench, as a principle.
- All of our "stars" if we can call them that (Reggie, Drummond, Tobias) are offensive minded (except for Drummond's rebounding).


Disagree with any rotation that sees Tobias waiting for RJ to pass him the ball for significant minutes.

RJ is all score first, score 2nd, pass as a last resort. Tobias gets his points in the flow in bunches.

They do not mesh and we shouldn't weaken one for the other.

- SVG has to put more effort into developing KCP into a 2-way star by giving him the ball more.
- He also should be taking the leash off of Stanley Johnson and letting his talent air itself out. Give him a chance to be the starting 3 and see what you've got.


Agree on SJ starting if RJ is starting - disagree with SJ starting if you have RJ on the bench

Agree on KCP

Dre
Mook
Harris
KCP
Ish

Should start - share the ball, Mook defends the best scoring forward.

Bobo/Jon
Jon/King
SJ
Bullock
RJ

That's the bench.

Jon & Bull space the floor, SJ is the 2ndary handler, RJ runs PnR with the C as much as he likes.

Would have worked but SVG was too loyal to RJ - I believe that has changed


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Everything that is coming out of SVG's mouth suggests that unless RJ is traded he's still in love with RJ's ability. Even Langlois had a glowing article about the last practice session where RJ "wowed" the coaching staff. More than likely we're looking forward to the Reggie Jackson show next year all over again. Hopefully its a better episode.

I agree you can't have RJ and Tobias in the same lineup because RJ is a ballhog and they both are minus defenders. Here's what I'd do:

1st Unit
RJ + offense - defense
KCP + offense + defense
SJ = offense (passing) +defense
Leuer =offense +defense
Drummond -offense = defense (rebounding)

That unit keeps you +1 on offense and gets you +2 on defense

2nd Unit
Ish =offense +defense
Bullock =offense +defense
Morris -offense +defense
Harris +offense -defense
Boban +offense =defense

That unit is a +1 on offense and keeps you a +2 on defense

That's how I would coach this teams lineups as is.

If they draft Zach Collins Leuer or Morris has to go.

If they draft Terrence Ferguson then he can sit a year and play the backup 3 when Morris leaves.
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Re: BBall IQ/Brainstorming: Why are Bucks/Bulls overperforming in playoffs? 

Post#11 » by tmorgan » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:50 pm

The Bucks are also a better team with (the current version of) Jabari Parker OUT. The guy can't defend a tree stump. He makes Monroe look like Duncan.
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Re: BBall IQ/Brainstorming: Why are Bucks/Bulls overperforming in playoffs? 

Post#12 » by vic » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:41 pm

tmorgan wrote:The Bucks are also a better team with (the current version of) Jabari Parker OUT. The guy can't defend a tree stump. He makes Monroe look like Duncan.


Good call- gotta have a bball IQ to see that offense is not everything.
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Re: BBall IQ/Brainstorming: Why are Bucks/Bulls overperforming in playoffs? 

Post#13 » by whitehops » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:58 pm

i haven't watched any of the bulls/celtics series but i've watched most of the bucks/raps series so i'll post my thoughts on that series.

there are some general things that go into playoff basketball and probably the biggest one is that teams game plan their defense a ton. in the regular season teams usually trot out their "base" defense and then add slight variations catered to their opponent. in the regular season teams only have a short time to prepare for games and then the next night they have a different opponent. in the playoffs, however, all your scouting and practice time is dedicated to the game plan you have vs. one team.

the raps have lowry and derozan create almost all their offense off of high screens (cory joseph creates a bit too) and the raps simply don't have other players that can create at any high level. guys like ibaka, carroll, patterson, etc. are mostly just spot-up shooters. that's why the raps frequently run with two or three point guard lineups, they do it simply to get more ball handlers on the floor.

the bucks are doing a great job defending these high pick and rolls from lowry and derozan and it starts right away. they are putting pressure on the ball as soon as the ball crosses half court (sometimes sooner) so if you see there's quite a few times where the raps are starting their high screens like 30 feet from the basket. and when the screen comes the bucks are doing a great job using their length and athleticism to create a wall. they switch a lot on the perimeter and have been pretty precise with their rotations on the back end so that when the ball is moved around they still have someone in front of the ball. this has caused huge problems for the raps so far as it makes them initiate their offense so far from the basket, gets the ball out of lowry/derozan's hands and puts it in the hands of guys who can't create much even with the mismatches from the bucks switching. the raps really miss ross right now since his ability to come off screens and create offense would at least give them another option offensively.


our team is obviously flawed but i feel like SVG is building the team for the playoffs. between the reggie pick and roll with drummond, KCP coming off of screens, harris' scoring and morris' iso ability there are multiple places to go if the defense tries to take something away from us (cleveland took away the reggie/drummond pick and roll). despite not really slowing down cleveland's offense we were almost step for step with them even when they took away our best offensive option.

defensively you don't need five shutdown defenders to have a good team defense, you just need guys that can hold their own one on one, put in the effort and are disciplined enough to execute the game plan.
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Re: BBall IQ/Brainstorming: Why are Bucks/Bulls overperforming in playoffs? 

Post#14 » by ImHeisenberg » Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:15 pm

They have a top 15 player in Giannis is #1 by a long shot.

They have Khris Middleton, who is an elite 3&D player, you don't have talk about how hard he hustles, because he doesn't shoot 40% from the field.

Their big men do what they're good at, and aren't making ineffective plays.

Better talent overall, as well.
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Re: BBall IQ/Brainstorming: Why are Bucks/Bulls overperforming in playoffs? 

Post#15 » by BIG BEN'S FRO » Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:35 am

Ever get the feeling it was Hammond and not Joe D?
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Re: RE: Re: BBall IQ/Brainstorming: Why are Bucks/Bulls overperforming in playoffs? 

Post#16 » by Pharaoh » Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:45 am

BIG BEN'S FRO wrote:Ever get the feeling it was Hammond and not Joe D?

All the **** time!

I wonder if we went back to when Hammond left and looked at all the transactions after that point would the evidence show it to be true?

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Re: BBall IQ/Brainstorming: Why are Bucks/Bulls overperforming in playoffs? 

Post#17 » by vic » Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:59 am

Well Rondo is injured now so Celtics escaped out of pure luck.

Wonder if Toronto gets that lucky
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Re: BBall IQ/Brainstorming: Why are Bucks/Bulls overperforming in playoffs? 

Post#18 » by Han Solo » Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:47 am

The Bulls are over performing.. The Bucks are just flat out good and Giannis is on his way to being the best player in the NBA.
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Re: BBall IQ/Brainstorming: Why are Bucks/Bulls overperforming in playoffs? 

Post#19 » by DBC10 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:24 am

Hammond has also drafted and had a good eye for young talent as well.

Thon is looking like a great energy big, Giannis a top player, and Middleton looking like an all-around sharpshooter. If we still had Hammond, I'm sure we'd be similar to where the Bucks are.
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Re: BBall IQ/Brainstorming: Why are Bucks/Bulls overperforming in playoffs? 

Post#20 » by 76ciology » Sun Apr 23, 2017 5:12 am

Wings.

They have better talent at the wings than their opponent.

Play-offs is a game of match-ups, wings are versatile in position that they possess some traits as bigs and some traits as guards.

PG and Cs are easier to shutdown with switching D on PG and good post defenders at C. But wings, they've got a lot more counters.

Then after the wing position, most of the winning teams have elite shooting to surround it with. Bulls? The lack of shooting is going to be their achilles heel going forward.

You could also make the case in the team with the best player always has favor in a series.
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