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Stanley Johnson 2017-2018 Thread

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Re: Stanley Johnson 2017-2018 Thread 

Post#101 » by In SVG We Trust » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:27 pm

pistontr wrote:we should tank hard. we couldn't find any special talent like kwahi, george, hayward or klay in late lottery.

Sounds like irony when you see where they were drafted.
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Re: Stanley Johnson 2017-2018 Thread 

Post#102 » by Kilo » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:26 pm

In SVG We Trust wrote:
pistontr wrote:we should tank hard. we couldn't find any special talent like kwahi, george, hayward or klay in late lottery.

Sounds like irony when you see where they were drafted.

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Re: Stanley Johnson 2017-2018 Thread 

Post#103 » by jakebernat » Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:08 pm

Yeah, I don't necessarily think that SJ needs to become a go-to guy in the post. He's never really operated from there in his career.

However, his bully-ball style of game definitely has a place in the league. He just needs to pick his spots better and combine a bit of finesse with his brute strength.

This comparison is probably going to kill you guys, but Stuckey was excellent at using his size and strength to get to his spots and to the FT line at a very good rate. I think Stanley has more potential on both ends than Stuckey ever had, but he could definitely stand to utilize that part of his game a bit more since he's never going to really outjump anyone.
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Re: Stanley Johnson 2017-2018 Thread 

Post#104 » by Kp junior » Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:04 am

Interesting answer in his twitter Q and A - when asked what position he'd prefer if not at 3, his answer was the 1!


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Re: RE: Re: Stanley Johnson 2017-2018 Thread 

Post#105 » by Pharaoh » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:50 am

Kp junior wrote:Interesting answer in his twitter Q and A - when asked what position he'd prefer if not at 3, his answer was the 1!


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I thought that was understood?

You go back to his rookie year running PnRs with Baynes...they had success with it and a load of people were high on SJ as a secondary

Now? After last season everyone is skeptical of him, as we should be!

You can blame whatever you want to blame for last season but at the end of the day SJ didn't deliver.

This season is his best (last?) chance
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Re: Stanley Johnson 2017-2018 Thread 

Post#106 » by pistontr » Wed Sep 13, 2017 4:11 pm

In SVG We Trust wrote:
pistontr wrote:we should tank hard. we couldn't find any special talent like kwahi, george, hayward or klay in late lottery.

Sounds like irony when you see where they were drafted.

we have drafted knight, monroe, kcp, johnson type players in late or even mid lottery. barely starters. our gm's are no good. only hope is tanking hard.
Sorry for my poor english
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Re: Stanley Johnson 2017-2018 Thread 

Post#107 » by BadMofoPimp » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:36 pm

The "Must Tank Hard" crew will never get what they want as the Pistons will never go down that road.
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Re: Stanley Johnson 2017-2018 Thread 

Post#108 » by vege » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:16 pm

In SVG We Trust wrote:
pistontr wrote:we should tank hard. we couldn't find any special talent like kwahi, george, hayward or klay in late lottery.

Sounds like irony when you see where they were drafted.


We drafted Middleton in the 2nd round and Afflalo late in the 1st round. We also drafted Dre at #9 and while he is flawed, he is a good player, especially for a #9 pick. In the other thread people are just talking about Hilliard and Gbinije. KCP wasn`t a terrible choice either, I remember a lot of people wanting us to draft Shabazz (myself included) and McLemore instead of him, and he is BY FAR the superior player, yes we could have drafted Giannis or CJ but who would think they would become what they became.

We have a lot to complain, our draft selections are not the main issue here. We gave Middleton and Afflalo away for absolutely nothing. We also lost Monroe and KCP for nothing.

Middleton was a throw in on the Knight for Jennings trade, where we should have sent Singler and not Middleton :banghead:

We traded Afflalo for a 2nd round pick, to get enough cap space to overpay Chris **** Wilcox :nonono:

I still think Stanley Johnson can get his **** together and be a good player we should not give up on another talented wing player, especially because he is still 21.
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Re: RE: Re: Stanley Johnson 2017-2018 Thread 

Post#109 » by Pharaoh » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:44 pm

pistontr wrote:
In SVG We Trust wrote:
pistontr wrote:we should tank hard. we couldn't find any special talent like kwahi, george, hayward or klay in late lottery.

Sounds like irony when you see where they were drafted.

we have drafted knight, monroe, kcp, johnson type players in late or even mid lottery. barely starters. our gm's are no good. only hope is tanking hard.

Of the 4 guys you mentioned 3 were drafted by Joe FFS!
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Re: RE: Re: Stanley Johnson 2017-2018 Thread 

Post#110 » by Pharaoh » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:45 pm

vege wrote:
In SVG We Trust wrote:
pistontr wrote:we should tank hard. we couldn't find any special talent like kwahi, george, hayward or klay in late lottery.

Sounds like irony when you see where they were drafted.


We drafted Middleton in the 2nd round and Afflalo late in the 1st round. We also drafted Dre at #9 and while he is flawed, he is a good player, especially for a #9 pick. In the other thread people are just talking about Hilliard and Gbinije. KCP wasn`t a terrible choice either, I remember a lot of people wanting us to draft Shabazz (myself included) and McLemore instead of him, and he is BY FAR the superior player, yes we could have drafted Giannis or CJ but who would think they would become what they became.

We have a lot to complain, our draft selections are not the main issue here. We gave Middleton and Afflalo away for absolutely nothing. We also lost Monroe and KCP for nothing.

Middleton was a throw in on the Knight for Jennings trade, where we should have sent Singler and not Middleton :banghead:

We traded Afflalo for a 2nd round pick, to get enough cap space to overpay Chris **** Wilcox :nonono:

I still think Stanley Johnson can get his **** together and be a good player we should not give up on another talented wing player, especially because he is still 21.

All those moves you mentioned are on Joe and have nothing to do with SVG
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Re: Stanley Johnson 2017-2018 Thread 

Post#111 » by Southern Piston » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:43 am

I wanted Stanley to play Summer League, but play pg\pf while guarding the best player on the floor, he could have progressed and probably raised his value. He looks good to me when he's running the offense occasionally from the top. Like Lebron looks really good to me as a pg. I swear if we weren't going to pick up Jenkins or L Brown we should have gone that route. I new we weren't going to sign either one, wasted development time.
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Re: RE: Re: Stanley Johnson 2017-2018 Thread 

Post#112 » by vege » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:56 am

Pharaoh wrote:
vege wrote:
In SVG We Trust wrote:Sounds like irony when you see where they were drafted.


We drafted Middleton in the 2nd round and Afflalo late in the 1st round. We also drafted Dre at #9 and while he is flawed, he is a good player, especially for a #9 pick. In the other thread people are just talking about Hilliard and Gbinije. KCP wasn`t a terrible choice either, I remember a lot of people wanting us to draft Shabazz (myself included) and McLemore instead of him, and he is BY FAR the superior player, yes we could have drafted Giannis or CJ but who would think they would become what they became.

We have a lot to complain, our draft selections are not the main issue here. We gave Middleton and Afflalo away for absolutely nothing. We also lost Monroe and KCP for nothing.

Middleton was a throw in on the Knight for Jennings trade, where we should have sent Singler and not Middleton :banghead:

We traded Afflalo for a 2nd round pick, to get enough cap space to overpay Chris **** Wilcox :nonono:

I still think Stanley Johnson can get his **** together and be a good player we should not give up on another talented wing player, especially because he is still 21.

All those moves you mentioned are on Joe and have nothing to do with SVG


Lol WHAT? Middleton and Afflalo trades were Joe moves, but regardless they still hurt us badly. Monroe and KCP were SVG moves. Doesn`t matter who made the moves, they have EVERYTHING to do with SVG, since he run our team nowadays and those moves are the reason we don`t have a whole lot of talent in our team. We have a **** season, we get the chance to draft talent ahead of teams with better seasons and we just throw away that talent for nothing a few years later.

We are not a FA destination, so we acquire talent via draft or trades.
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Re: Stanley Johnson 2017-2018 Thread 

Post#113 » by In SVG We Trust » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:12 pm

Monroe a SVG move... Obviously some people can't understand how the league works
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Stanley Johnson 2017-2018 Thread 

Post#114 » by Pharaoh » Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:10 am

vege wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:
vege wrote:
We drafted Middleton in the 2nd round and Afflalo late in the 1st round. We also drafted Dre at #9 and while he is flawed, he is a good player, especially for a #9 pick. In the other thread people are just talking about Hilliard and Gbinije. KCP wasn`t a terrible choice either, I remember a lot of people wanting us to draft Shabazz (myself included) and McLemore instead of him, and he is BY FAR the superior player, yes we could have drafted Giannis or CJ but who would think they would become what they became.

We have a lot to complain, our draft selections are not the main issue here. We gave Middleton and Afflalo away for absolutely nothing. We also lost Monroe and KCP for nothing.

Middleton was a throw in on the Knight for Jennings trade, where we should have sent Singler and not Middleton :banghead:

We traded Afflalo for a 2nd round pick, to get enough cap space to overpay Chris **** Wilcox :nonono:

I still think Stanley Johnson can get his **** together and be a good player we should not give up on another talented wing player, especially because he is still 21.

All those moves you mentioned are on Joe and have nothing to do with SVG


Lol WHAT? Middleton and Afflalo trades were Joe moves, but regardless they still hurt us badly. Monroe and KCP were SVG moves. Doesn`t matter who made the moves, they have EVERYTHING to do with SVG, since he run our team nowadays and those moves are the reason we don`t have a whole lot of talent in our team. We have a **** season, we get the chance to draft talent ahead of teams with better seasons and we just throw away that talent for nothing a few years later.

We are not a FA destination, so we acquire talent via draft or trades.


To the bold: obviously I missed the sentence where you mentioned Monroe & KCP being allowed to walk! My bad.

On Monroe: he took the QO the same off-season SVG was hired so his decision is likely tied to all that had happened the previous 4 years under Joe.

On KCP - SVG offered $18 mil per for the guy and Rich Paul wanted more. SVG made the right decision and walked away.

On us not being a FA destination: we all know this, which is why SVG has always traded for guys that have team friendly contracts, AB being the exception

Trashing SVG for his moves as VPBO is a bit weird IMO:

We're in a much better place now than when he took over!

It's his coaching and development that has let us down
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Re: Stanley Johnson 2017-2018 Thread 

Post#115 » by vege » Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:32 pm

Pharaoh our future was destroyed in When we signed CV/BG and after that Josh Smith, not SVG`s fault, but still we have 2 ways to add talent, via trade (with his limited resources/assets he did well) and via draft, and we keep wasting our young talent over and over again.

He could have traded KCP at the deadline, he had some value.

We also keep wasting our capspace overpaying for bad players/unimpressive players (Leuer/Galloway/etc) We should be using our capspace in trades to add talent/assets.
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Re: Stanley Johnson 2017-2018 Thread 

Post#116 » by MotownMadness » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:30 pm

vege wrote:Pharaoh our future was destroyed in When we signed CV/BG and after that Josh Smith, not SVG`s fault, but still we have 2 ways to add talent, via trade (with his limited resources/assets he did well) and via draft, and we keep wasting our young talent over and over again.

He could have traded KCP at the deadline, he had some value.

We also keep wasting our capspace overpaying for bad players/unimpressive players (Leuer/Galloway/etc) We should be using our capspace in trades to add talent/assets.

There were rumors of us shopping KCP at the deadline to gauge his value but even then it's not like at that point and time we weren't planning on keeping him. We offered him a more than fair deal and got put in a bad spot but then got lucky with the Bradley trade.

He basically inherited the Monroe problem who couldn't be traded on a QO. Also he told Monroe what his role and pay would be here and neither side was interested.
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Re: RE: Re: Stanley Johnson 2017-2018 Thread 

Post#117 » by Pharaoh » Fri Sep 15, 2017 11:34 pm

vege wrote:Pharaoh our future was destroyed in When we signed CV/BG and after that Josh Smith, not SVG`s fault, but still we have 2 ways to add talent, via trade (with his limited resources/assets he did well) and via draft, and we keep wasting our young talent over and over again.

He could have traded KCP at the deadline, he had some value.

We also keep wasting our capspace overpaying for bad players/unimpressive players (Leuer/Galloway/etc) We should be using our capspace in trades to add talent/assets.


I don't agree that SVG has wasted our young talent over and over again.

SJ & Henry were 19 when drafted if memory serves...both were projected to get selected at those spots or higher...it takes time to develop kids in the NBA if you're not tanking.

Kennard is a more polished product and we'll see what SVG does with him this season.

As far as using our cap space the way SVG has:

That's a really difficult sell since we don't know what moves could have been made instead.

I'm a fan of using the space to take on short term bad deals for additional picks - used to slam Joe for not valuing Draft picks more too

You gotta think that teams are now much smarter when dealing away future firsts though, especially after Brooklyn, Philly, Sacramento & LAL
As far as overpaying for Jon Boy, Bobo, Ish, Galloway...that's another hard sell since we have no way of knowing what other offers they had on the table or who we were speaking to instead. Free agents generally steer clear of Detroit so any guy we are interested in is likely getting a bit more than expected.

You also gotta keep it in perspective: the 4 guys I named all make between $7-10 mil or thereabouts. The entire cap is around $100 mil. They're not the problem
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Re: Stanley Johnson 2017-2018 Thread 

Post#118 » by mattao313 » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:43 pm

vege wrote:Pharaoh our future was destroyed in When we signed CV/BG and after that Josh Smith, not SVG`s fault, but still we have 2 ways to add talent, via trade (with his limited resources/assets he did well) and via draft, and we keep wasting our young talent over and over again.

He could have traded KCP at the deadline, he had some value.

We also keep wasting our capspace overpaying for bad players/unimpressive players (Leuer/Galloway/etc) We should be using our capspace in trades to add talent/assets.

They were all in on signing KCP before the Bradley trade SVG and Bower have said this multiple times. So trading him at the deadline is just hindsight on your behalf.

Wasting capspace? We did use it get talent in Morris, Harris, and even Reggie most of our signings are fine I mean most players don't want to player here.
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Re: Stanley Johnson 2017-2018 Thread 

Post#119 » by Pharaoh » Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:59 pm

I would imagine that IF Al Horford signed here everything looks a lot different...

Dre, Horford, Harris, KCP, RJ (if healthy) looks damn good for a 3 year run

The fact that Van Bower took us from the outhouse to that point is pretty freaking amazing considering they gave up zero first round picks and/or young talent with "potential"!

Taking a team that has been completely irrelevant on the landscape for basically 10 years and get in the room with Horford...that's a massive leap

Not landing Horford was the difference between having a real chance and having what we've got right now.

To their credit other than Dre, RJ & Jon we have no long term deals on the books, no massive overpays and can pivot as needed moving forward
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Re: Stanley Johnson 2017-2018 Thread 

Post#120 » by Billl » Mon Sep 18, 2017 3:43 pm

"You also gotta keep it in perspective: the 4 guys I named all make between $7-10 mil or thereabouts. The entire cap is around $100 mil. They're not the problem"

Actually, that's a big problem for a small market team. We've got a big chunk of payroll tied up in guys who aren't really NBA starters. Add in a couple starters who are getting paid like stars, and out cap situation isn't looking good.

Realistically, SVG's biggest downfall so far is that he isn't doing much/anything with the biggest bargain in the NBA right now - rookie contracts. Compared to free agent deals, that rookie scale is a steal. Ideally, you always have a couple rotation players on those deals and fill out 10-15 with bargain vets or projects.

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