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Rebuilding Plan.

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Crymson
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Re: Rebuilding Plan. 

Post#61 » by Crymson » Sat Jun 9, 2018 3:22 pm

BDM22 wrote:Dude went from being arguably the worst FT shooter in the history of the game to a totally passable percentage in one year.


That was helpful.

He improved his defense.


From dreadful to passable, and that was largely because he tried harder.

He brought an impact on the offensive end by significantly upping his passing game (until Stan went away from it).


Until Griffin was brought in, you mean. With a ball-dominant passer operating on the low block, Andre's passing is unlikely to see much use.

He's the best rebounder the NBA has seen in 20 years.


Which is nice, but not game-winning, and less relatively valuable given that he cannot shoot and is not an elite defender.

Plus he plays every damn night.


That's debatable. He's always healthy, yes, but there are plenty of nights on which he simply doesn't feel like showing up. Last season's excellent performances against Boston and Utah were reminders of what he's truly capable of when he plays at maximum effort. They were also reminders that he very rarely plays at maximum effort.

Obviously he's got flaws, and stuff like low-post offense doesn't come naturally, so he's never going to be a dominant "go-to" scorer, but throwing him away for a dude that looked like he may never play basketball again a few months ago is crazy...


At no point did it appear that Hayward would never play basketball again. There were fears of long-term ligament damage, and those were dispelled within 24 hours when it became apparent that the dislocation was clean. It was an injury that could have happened to anyone.

They'd have to permanently stock 4 or 5 stretchers on the sidelines for a team with RJ, Hayward, Blake, Stanley Johnson, and Reggie Bullock. You gotta have a couple guys you can count on!


Johnson and Hayward are not injury-prone. Prior to last season, Hayward had logged 72 or more games in six of his seven campaigns. Stanley has played in 219 of a possible 246 games, and one of the games he missed was for suspension.

In any event, the Pistons would be complete fools to refuse a Hayward for Drummond offer. The Celtics would likewise be total fools to offer it. An elite wing is worth far more than Andre.
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Re: Rebuilding Plan. 

Post#62 » by ImHeisenberg » Sat Jun 9, 2018 3:34 pm

Crymson wrote:In any event, the Pistons would be complete fools to refuse a Hayward for Drummond offer. The Celtics would likewise be total fools to offer it. An elite wing is worth far more than Andre.


They would be, and they aren't. They would not offload Hayward for another max contract. If they traded him, they would send him out for draft picks or a future young PG, as Irving isn't a guaranteed long term building block with his injury history and upcoming contract negotiations.

It's funny that anyone is arguing Drummond as a better player than Hayward, it's like they haven't watched the NBA in the last five years. We'd be lucky the getting a quality starting caliber wing for Drummond, with the flooded big man market.
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Re: Rebuilding Plan. 

Post#63 » by jakebernat » Sat Jun 9, 2018 6:15 pm

ImHeisenberg wrote:We'd be lucky the getting a quality starting caliber wing for Drummond, with the flooded big man market.


I feel like this is a bit dramatic...
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Re: Rebuilding Plan. 

Post#64 » by Crymson » Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:43 am

jakebernat wrote:I feel like this is a bit dramatic...


We could probably nab a starting-caliber wing, but not anybody in the realm of elite.
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Re: Rebuilding Plan. 

Post#65 » by stylesofpunk » Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:08 am

Here is a interesting idea

Griffin/Johnson/Galloway for Love/Smith/Korver

Why for Detroit: Griffin/Drummond not a good combo together. Love is a better stretch 4 and would fit better with Andre. Smith/Korver would be on essentially 1 year deals because their 2019-2020 contracts are not fully guaranteed 3.8 and 3.4 mil respectively. Jackson/Korver or Kennard/Bullock/Love/Drummond for a starting 5 wouldnt be bad. Love has a player option after next season so he would be a expiring essentially.

Why for Cleveland: If Lebron bolts then your team is gonna have very little people coming to see them. Blake Griffin and Trae Young(8) would be the guys that people came to see with this trade. Along with that you get Galloway on a 2 year deal who expires the same year as Clarkson/Hill/Thompson. If Stanley works out then you could sign him long term if not he is out after year 1 but they would get a hard look at him for a year. If he dont work out then you go into the 2019/2020 season with Griffin and say Trae Young as your pieces along with your 1st from 2019 if you land in the top 10(maybe Barrett) along with a bunch of cap space.
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Re: Rebuilding Plan. 

Post#66 » by Crymson » Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:00 am

stylesofpunk wrote:Why for Cleveland: If Lebron bolts then your team is gonna have very little people coming to see them. Blake Griffin and Trae Young(8) would be the guys that people came to see with this trade. Along with that you get Galloway on a 2 year deal who expires the same year as Clarkson/Hill/Thompson. If Stanley works out then you could sign him long term if not he is out after year 1 but they would get a hard look at him for a year. If he dont work out then you go into the 2019/2020 season with Griffin and say Trae Young as your pieces along with your 1st from 2019 if you land in the top 10(maybe Barrett) along with a bunch of cap space.


If LeBron leaves, Cleveland will have no choice but to rebuild, and Gilbert has shown himself willing to hit the rebuild button where necessary. In that case, the Cavaliers will attempt to trade Love for expirings and picks. They will have no interest in Griffin's massive, awful contract. Injury risk aside, he wouldn't get them anywhere.

He's simply not an attractive commodity.
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Re: Rebuilding Plan. 

Post#67 » by ImHeisenberg » Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:15 pm

jakebernat wrote:
ImHeisenberg wrote:We'd be lucky the getting a quality starting caliber wing for Drummond, with the flooded big man market.


I feel like this is a bit dramatic...

Not at all. Look at the top of the draft. Lots of quality big men there. Ayton, Bagley, Jackson, etc. Then, look at the free agent market. Why pay Drummond $25+ million when you can get an Aaron Baynes for $5-8 million? He can do 75% of what Drummond does, and provide some other skills, like consistent effort on defense. Cousins will be a UFA, and might take a discount due to his injury. Brook Lopez, McGee, Noel, Okafor and Pachulia will also be unrestricted FA's. None are necessarily better than Drummond in a vacuum. But, they'll all be substantially cheaper and only require the forfeiture of cap space to acquire.

That doesn't leave a strong market for Drummond. It isn't even a debate over his talent. It's a simple supply and demand curve. There's an ample supply of quality centers, so why give up a really good player to acquire a player that's frankly overpaid to do so?

But, off the top of my head, I could see Cleveland swapping Kevin Love for Drummond if James leaves (or stays, heck). That would push Blake to where he should be starting- center, and Love can start at PF, and move to C when Blake is resting, or injured for 3 months. It makes us better offensively, we don't lose much rebounding, and we don't really get much worse on defense as Dre was never a consistent presence down there.

That's probably the best type of return we could get. Just off the top of the scalp.
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Re: Rebuilding Plan. 

Post#68 » by The Penguin » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:22 pm

Who says no?

Drummond / Ellenson

for

Draymond / Livingston

Golden State pivots and adds Drummond inside to their glut of shooting, moves on from Draymond being a bit of a time bomb in the locker room, gets younger and adds a different look.

Pistons bring Draymond back to Detroit to be a key piece in Bad Boys 2.0, can hope Draymond helps bring the dog out in Stanley, frees up the lineup a bit with Blake/Draymond sharing "stretch 5" duties and adds two more playmakers to the lineup.
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Re: Rebuilding Plan. 

Post#69 » by DCintheD » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:25 pm

The Penguin wrote:Who says no?

Drummond / Ellenson

for

Draymond / Livingston

Golden State pivots and adds Drummond inside to their glut of shooting, moves on from Draymond being a bit of a time bomb in the locker room, gets younger and adds a different look.

Pistons bring Draymond back to Detroit to be a key piece in Bad Boys 2.0, can hope Draymond helps bring the dog out in Stanley, frees up the lineup a bit with Blake/Draymond sharing "stretch 5" duties and adds two more playmakers to the lineup.

GS says hell no. Draymond is too valuable to their defense. Plus they will do whatever it takes to keep that core together.
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Re: Rebuilding Plan. 

Post#70 » by The Penguin » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:35 pm

DCintheD wrote:
The Penguin wrote:Who says no?

Drummond / Ellenson

for

Draymond / Livingston

Golden State pivots and adds Drummond inside to their glut of shooting, moves on from Draymond being a bit of a time bomb in the locker room, gets younger and adds a different look.

Pistons bring Draymond back to Detroit to be a key piece in Bad Boys 2.0, can hope Draymond helps bring the dog out in Stanley, frees up the lineup a bit with Blake/Draymond sharing "stretch 5" duties and adds two more playmakers to the lineup.

GS says hell no. Draymond is too valuable to their defense. Plus they will do whatever it takes to keep that core together.



I'm not convinced they say "hell no". There's been whispers that Draymond has been a problem for them, West said the public has no idea what the team went through internally this year, one can assume Draymond wasn't an innocent bystander if there is internal drama. The way the team went about the post season feels like they could use a bit of a shakeup. I'm not saying they would say yes, but I do think they would think hard about it.
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Re: Rebuilding Plan. 

Post#71 » by Kevin6CD » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:38 pm

The Penguin wrote:Who says no?

Drummond / Ellenson

for

Draymond / Livingston

Golden State pivots and adds Drummond inside to their glut of shooting, moves on from Draymond being a bit of a time bomb in the locker room, gets younger and adds a different look.

Pistons bring Draymond back to Detroit to be a key piece in Bad Boys 2.0, can hope Draymond helps bring the dog out in Stanley, frees up the lineup a bit with Blake/Draymond sharing "stretch 5" duties and adds two more playmakers to the lineup.


I say no, as someone who refuses to support a team that employs Draymond Green. I think the Warriors turn that down pretty easily as well.
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Re: Rebuilding Plan. 

Post#72 » by The Moose » Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:11 pm

Read on Twitter


Looks like we might make some trades in the offseason with the new management
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Re: Rebuilding Plan. 

Post#73 » by DCintheD » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:27 pm

The Penguin wrote:
DCintheD wrote:
The Penguin wrote:Who says no?

Drummond / Ellenson

for

Draymond / Livingston

Golden State pivots and adds Drummond inside to their glut of shooting, moves on from Draymond being a bit of a time bomb in the locker room, gets younger and adds a different look.

Pistons bring Draymond back to Detroit to be a key piece in Bad Boys 2.0, can hope Draymond helps bring the dog out in Stanley, frees up the lineup a bit with Blake/Draymond sharing "stretch 5" duties and adds two more playmakers to the lineup.

GS says hell no. Draymond is too valuable to their defense. Plus they will do whatever it takes to keep that core together.



I'm not convinced they say "hell no". There's been whispers that Draymond has been a problem for them, West said the public has no idea what the team went through internally this year, one can assume Draymond wasn't an innocent bystander if there is internal drama. The way the team went about the post season feels like they could use a bit of a shakeup. I'm not saying they would say yes, but I do think they would think hard about it.

they"ll say hell no because a player like Drummond isn't as valuable as we all pretend him to be in today's NBA. If Draymond gets put on the block they can do much better than Drummond.
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Re: Rebuilding Plan. 

Post#74 » by DCintheD » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:33 pm

really hoping for a Blake for McCollum type of trade. then Reggie for a$$ from someone else so CJ can run the point and Luke at the 2.
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Re: Rebuilding Plan. 

Post#75 » by DCintheD » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:12 pm

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ya5k4rju

Kemba, Batum, Williams
for
Blake, Reggie*

*substitute Ish and LG for Reggie

add a protected pick or two

Want to win now? Bring in a pg that wants to win now. Blake’s contract is less than Batum and Williams combined but for one more year.
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