John Wall

[Snakebites]

Yikes. Definitely dodged a bullet there.

[Manocad]

Yikes. Definitely dodged a bullet there.

Dodging a bullet is probably hyperbole. It seems that the whole idea of getting John Wall (or any other Wizards player, for that matter) was only a thing in this forum and in the Detroit media. I never saw anything coming from the team stating they were interested.

[Invictus88]

^Or hope for the future if Wall's play and off-season weight gain can be attributed to a physical injury that is very correctable. He gets the surgery, misses ROS but for the first time in a while can walk and run without pain and maybe he comes back as the player he was only a couple years ago - an elite arguable top 10 player in the league.

Let's say that in the best case scenario that he becomes the 'elite arguable top 10 player in the league'. That's still not worth 170 million over 4 years. And that's if all of the dominos fall right. Which is the less probable outcome. Adding this risk in makes taking this route flat out irresponsible as a GM.

But we've already gone over this. Many Many Many times. Many people. Consenting opinions. Numerous points of data. No change in stance.

Honestly, I don't know what to make of it. You seem like a fairly articulate guy which makes me have a really hard time reconciling how you can basically completely disregard almost everyone else around replying with cogent responses of dissent.

Either you are incredibly, incredibly stubborn -- to the point where you just can't bring yourself budge an inch when presented with an opposing viewpoint; are a master troll; or are so consumed in your own opinion that there just isn't any room to consider anything else.

Of the three options I mentioned I really don't know which is more scary to be honest.

I felt bad earlier when Crymson came down hard on you some weeks back but the frustration at times interacting with you or just reading the same one-track mind responses over and over can be very real.

I like frequenting these boards in hopes of gaining any new insight on the team. It's obviously hard as of late with their recent losses but somehow I'm still interested. So I'm I'm going to add you to my foe list to see if that works out.

[Invictus88]

Yikes. Definitely dodged a bullet there.

Dodging a bullet is probably hyperbole. It seems that the whole idea of getting John Wall (or any other Wizards player, for that matter) was only a thing in this forum and in the Detroit media. I never saw anything coming from the team stating they were interested.

I keep thinking of a slow moving super mario bros. bullet bill inching across the screen. Mario jumping back and forth over top of it as it slowly progresses to the right.. finally hopping on top and putting it out of its misery for 100pts.

[Spider156]

I saw we go for Wiggins. He just got booed from the Minnesota crowd. I think we can trade expirings for him in the offseason. Minnesota should go all in on KAT and flip Wiggins for someone else. Teams have to strike out on FAs first then it can happen.

[buzzkilloton]

I saw we go for Wiggins. He just got booed from the Minnesota crowd. I think we can trade expirings for him in the offseason. Minnesota should go all in on KAT and flip Wiggins for someone else. Teams have to strike out on FAs first then it can happen.

Now that the worst contract in the league is off the table we should start thinking of ways to get the next worst!

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1773959

worst contract Wall or Wiggins is the thread. At the time Wiggins was winning obv Wall is now. Prime trade targets for pistons fans!

[Spider156]

I saw we go for Wiggins. He just got booed from the Minnesota crowd. I think we can trade expirings for him in the offseason. Minnesota should go all in on KAT and flip Wiggins for someone else. Teams have to strike out on FAs first then it can happen.

Now that the worst contract in the league is off the table we should start thinking of ways to get the next worst!

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1773959

worst contract Wall or Wiggins is the thread. At the time Wiggins was winning obv Wall is now. Prime trade targets for pistons fans!

Hahaha you're right man but that's the only way to do it. Think about what I suggested to trade though. Expirings. So next offseason that'll be Jackson Galloway and someone else for Wiggins. How else did we get Tobias Harris? Expirings. We have to make a similar trade and that's the only way to progress your roster. Cap space will only get you into more trouble competing against the rest of the NBA with cap space. I believe Wiggins can be had for expirings and that's worth the trade.

[Kilo]

I like frequenting these boards in hopes of gaining any new insight on the team. It's obviously hard as of late with their recent losses but somehow I'm still interested. So I'm I'm going to add you to my foe list to see if that works out.

You do you. I too have people on my foe list. I don't feel the need to have to announce it. Instead of dime store psychoanalyzing me, maybe you should look in the mirror.

I'm not a die hard Piston fan. It's entertainment for me at most. The Pistons as constructed, on their current short term trajectory won't be entertaining. John Wall is a gamble. It would be interesting. Interesting is entertaining. Detroit Pistons don't get to acquire top 10 players without taking on risk. We're not a destination city. John Wall wouldn't be available to us without risk. I'd rather risk to be something, to be great and fail than do nothing for the next 1.5 years, get nothing in free agency because we never lure elite free agents to Detroit, and then forced to to a bottom out rebuild that will take 4-5 years of top 6-8 picks to maybe get a couple starters out of it like Philly did drafting Noel, Okafor, Embiid, Simmons, Fultz, Saric, Zhaire. Furthermore the REALITY of the situation is Tom Gores is wholly unwilling to follow that "process". He traded for Blake Griffin and brought in a 60yr old COY on a 4-5 year deal. He didn't bring Casey in for an interview on what Casey probably considers his last job and last contract at least as a head coach and sell him on potentially being part of a long rebuild. He sold him on being a "win now" team. Winning now is acquiring a flawed elite talent that would otherwise not be available. In the trades I have advocated - Jimmy Butler, John Wall, even Markelle Fultz - I'm swinging for the fences to get a player that if they didn't have health or character questions would never be available to us. That is the win now move. John Wall has his surgery and it's a complete success and you get a top 10 player at 29 yrs old aigned for four more years who has a huge chip on his shoulder for being written off and assumed the worst about him because he tried to play injured.

Wall is injured. He was last season. It can explain his play. It can explain his less than stellar off-season conditioning. It can explain his attitude when it hurts to even walk some days. 2-3 years ago he was a top ten player in the league. He's all of 28 years old - he's not 34-35 like Paul or Melo. We had a chance to buy low, or it was assumed he could have been had for little trade cost. In any package I put out here it was Jackson, Leuer, Galloway - I believe I always or mostly balked at including a pick, sometimes I wanted a FRP back even.

Top 10 players are worth 170M over four in today's NBA. I don't know how you can argue otherwise. If you are a top 10 player not on your rookie deal you're getting very near that unless you've already made your hundreds of millions and take a discount to chase a ring.

And I'm well aware that you won't read any of this - but because you feel the need to have to broadcast how you have come to your great and grand decision to "foe" me being an obvious and overt attempt to encourage others to join you in doing the same is why I am replying at all.

[Invictus88]

I saw we go for Wiggins. He just got booed from the Minnesota crowd. I think we can trade expirings for him in the offseason. Minnesota should go all in on KAT and flip Wiggins for someone else. Teams have to strike out on FAs first then it can happen.

Now that the worst contract in the league is off the table we should start thinking of ways to get the next worst!

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1773959

worst contract Wall or Wiggins is the thread. At the time Wiggins was winning obv Wall is now. Prime trade targets for pistons fans!

Hahaha you're right man but that's the only way to do it. Think about what I suggested to trade though. Expirings. So next offseason that'll be Jackson Galloway and someone else for Wiggins. How else did we get Tobias Harris? Expirings. We have to make a similar trade and that's the only way to progress your roster. Cap space will only get you into more trouble competing against the rest of the NBA with cap space. I believe Wiggins can be had for expirings and that's worth the trade.

I think Harris was an outlier though. Orlando had a glut at the forward position and couldn't put Harris in a position to succeed because they wanted to give minutes to Aaron Gordon. Harris's 16 mill/year contract wasn't ever really viewed as a bad contract at any point. Right now it's basically a steal.

I'm with Buzz on this one.

I think you use the expirings to take on contracts AND get picks in the same transaction; doing so at opportunistic times when other teams are trying to facilitate trades but need third parties to make the numbers work. But the worse the contract you absorb, the more value in picks you take as well.

The key is patience and that's where we've faltered the most in the past. Just because you have the money doesn't mean you have to spend it on whoever is left. In the worst case, sign some FA's to 1 year prove-it deals to fill out your roster and try again the next offseason or during the season if an opportunity arises. The problem to be avoided isn't cap space. It's getting negative net value when using it.

[bjones521]

I say we still trade for Wall. Trade Blake. We don't win another game without Blake, We tank and build around Wall and possibly the 3rd pick in the draft.

With Wall being hurt I'm sure Wash will take any offer. they'll prolly throw in their 1st round pick.

[ComboGuardCity]

Everyone says the Wiz are looking to fire sale. Maybe they take on Reggie’s contract and try to stay relevant? One can dream.

[Invictus88]

I say we still trade for Wall. Trade Blake. We don't win another game without Blake, We tank and build around Wall and possibly the 3rd pick in the draft.

With Wall being hurt I'm sure Wash will take any offer. they'll prolly throw in their 1st round pick.

They would likely have had to throw in that pick when he was healthy because of how bad the contract was. Now that he's injured I think it would have to be much more.

[Crymson]

They would likely have had to throw in that pick when he was healthy because of how bad the contract was. Now that he's injured I think it would have to be much more.

I do not think that any team will touch that contract, ever. No matter the incentives. It's so bad. Like shockingly bad. It'll ruin any team that touches it.

Everyone says the Wiz are looking to fire sale. Maybe they take on Reggie’s contract and try to stay relevant? One can dream.

I don't think taking on one of the worst starting PGs in the league will do that.

Yikes. Definitely dodged a bullet there.

Dodging a bullet is probably hyperbole. It seems that the whole idea of getting John Wall (or any other Wizards player, for that matter) was only a thing in this forum and in the Detroit media. I never saw anything coming from the team stating they were interested.

I doubt that the FO ever considered it. It would be a management error of catastrophic degree, just like signing him was for the Wiz.

[Manocad]

The problem with the risk of John Wall isn't just striking out in the bottom of the 9th and losing the game. It's striking out in the bottom of the 9th and losing the game but in the process throwing your bat into the crowd and killing a kid...who happens to be yours.