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Let's start the rebuild!

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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#361 » by jakebernat » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:44 am

Canadafan wrote:Imagine having a player or two like Marcus Smart on our team....we need players with heart and toughness dammit


Bruce brown? Christian wood? Healthy blake Griffin?
I’m not really sure what you mean by that.
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#362 » by Canadafan » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:08 am

jakebernat wrote:
Canadafan wrote:Imagine having a player or two like Marcus Smart on our team....we need players with heart and toughness dammit


Bruce brown? Christian wood? Healthy blake Griffin?
I’m not really sure what you mean by that.


Was sitting here watching the celtics game and saw pretty much every game of celts raps and the dude is a game changer. Affects the outcome of the game and knocks down 3's. Does everything and is amazing defender.
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#363 » by mattao313 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:09 am

jakebernat wrote:
Canadafan wrote:Imagine having a player or two like Marcus Smart on our team....we need players with heart and toughness dammit


Bruce brown? Christian wood? Healthy blake Griffin?
I’m not really sure what you mean by that.

He wants hard nose scrappy guys that play hard. I guess you could say bruce brown is one but he sucks.
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#364 » by buzzkilloton » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:46 am

Canadafan wrote:
jakebernat wrote:
Canadafan wrote:Imagine having a player or two like Marcus Smart on our team....we need players with heart and toughness dammit


Bruce brown? Christian wood? Healthy blake Griffin?
I’m not really sure what you mean by that.


Was sitting here watching the celtics game and saw pretty much every game of celts raps and the dude is a game changer. Affects the outcome of the game and knocks down 3's. Does everything and is amazing defender.


He is a Detroit style player. Boston knows what they have no way hes coming here.
Rebuild plz
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#365 » by Canadafan » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:57 pm

mattao313 wrote:
jakebernat wrote:
Canadafan wrote:Imagine having a player or two like Marcus Smart on our team....we need players with heart and toughness dammit


Bruce brown? Christian wood? Healthy blake Griffin?
I’m not really sure what you mean by that.

He wants hard nose scrappy guys that play hard. I guess you could say bruce brown is one but he sucks.


We could use a Jokic in the middle too. Maybe a Jamal Murray and toss in Tatum while we're at it :P
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#366 » by edmunder_prc » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:31 pm

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29899564/blake-griffin-derrick-rose-not-participating-detroit-pistons-workouts

"We're not really rebuilding here in Detroit," Casey said. "I think our basketball fans deserve a lot, so we like to use the word retooling, restoring as much as rebuilding. So, again, it doesn't have to take a long time because if our young guys are making the progress we expect them to make, it shouldn't be a long-term restoring. And again, if we get the opportunity to get the right free agent that's out there."


We are not rebuilding. We are looking for the right free agent to "take us over the topppppppp!!!"

I'm going to need a little more than "I'm fairly confident" that the team will rebuild. Instead of taking on another really bad contract or signing Charlie Villaneuva/Ben Gordon to pair with AI. Or however that was back then.
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#367 » by mattao313 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:10 pm

edmunder_prc wrote:
Spoiler:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29899564/blake-griffin-derrick-rose-not-participating-detroit-pistons-workouts

"We're not really rebuilding here in Detroit," Casey said. "I think our basketball fans deserve a lot, so we like to use the word retooling, restoring as much as rebuilding. So, again, it doesn't have to take a long time because if our young guys are making the progress we expect them to make, it shouldn't be a long-term restoring. And again, if we get the opportunity to get the right free agent that's out there."


We are not rebuilding. We are looking for the right free agent to "take us over the topppppppp!!!"

I'm going to need a little more than "I'm fairly confident" that the team will rebuild. Instead of taking on another really bad contract or signing Charlie Villaneuva/Ben Gordon to pair with AI. Or however that was back then.

That doesn't sound to good. We been retooling for to many year please just start a proper rebuild.
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#368 » by DBC10 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:33 pm

edmunder_prc wrote:https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29899564/blake-griffin-derrick-rose-not-participating-detroit-pistons-workouts

"We're not really rebuilding here in Detroit," Casey said. "I think our basketball fans deserve a lot, so we like to use the word retooling, restoring as much as rebuilding. So, again, it doesn't have to take a long time because if our young guys are making the progress we expect them to make, it shouldn't be a long-term restoring. And again, if we get the opportunity to get the right free agent that's out there."


We are not rebuilding. We are looking for the right free agent to "take us over the topppppppp!!!"

I'm going to need a little more than "I'm fairly confident" that the team will rebuild. Instead of taking on another really bad contract or signing Charlie Villaneuva/Ben Gordon to pair with AI. Or however that was back then.


Welp, if this is indeed the case then this franchise deserves to be in mediocre hell for the next 10 years again. Welcome to 2009 everyone
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#369 » by chrbal » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:50 pm

edmunder_prc wrote:https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29899564/blake-griffin-derrick-rose-not-participating-detroit-pistons-workouts

"We're not really rebuilding here in Detroit," Casey said. "I think our basketball fans deserve a lot, so we like to use the word retooling, restoring as much as rebuilding. So, again, it doesn't have to take a long time because if our young guys are making the progress we expect them to make, it shouldn't be a long-term restoring. And again, if we get the opportunity to get the right free agent that's out there."


We are not rebuilding. We are looking for the right free agent to "take us over the topppppppp!!!"

I'm going to need a little more than "I'm fairly confident" that the team will rebuild. Instead of taking on another really bad contract or signing Charlie Villaneuva/Ben Gordon to pair with AI. Or however that was back then.


All you can really look at is Sam Presti with the Sonics/thunder. https://www.basketball-reference.com/executives/prestsa99x.html

He took a team over coming off of two roughly 30 win seasons in 2007. Made them a little worse. Focused hard, and got crazy lucky in the draft. Swapped off players for assets. Took awhile before he even started looking to add complimentary players.

Obviously we won’t know anything until we see it happen. But weaver worked with Presti for like 10 seasons, that’s why me educated guess leans towards a proper rebuild.
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#370 » by Pharaoh » Thu Sep 17, 2020 1:19 am

edmunder_prc wrote:https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29899564/blake-griffin-derrick-rose-not-participating-detroit-pistons-workouts

"We're not really rebuilding here in Detroit," Casey said. "I think our basketball fans deserve a lot, so we like to use the word retooling, restoring as much as rebuilding. So, again, it doesn't have to take a long time because if our young guys are making the progress we expect them to make, it shouldn't be a long-term restoring. And again, if we get the opportunity to get the right free agent that's out there."


We are not rebuilding. We are looking for the right free agent to "take us over the topppppppp!!!"

I'm going to need a little more than "I'm fairly confident" that the team will rebuild. Instead of taking on another really bad contract or signing Charlie Villaneuva/Ben Gordon to pair with AI. Or however that was back then.


I didn't get that message out of his quote.

I bolded the message I got out of his quote.

Think they are purposefully avoiding the work rebuilding because we've been rebuilding for over a decade and it's tiresome

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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#371 » by Manocad » Thu Sep 17, 2020 10:16 am

The part of that which bothers me is the (paraphrased) “we owe it to the fans to put a winning team on the floor.” Some of us understand that you can’t do that every single year; that at some point the team has to be bad or even really bad in order to get really good. I’d rather hear “create a championship team.” Hypothetically, who wants to see a 42-40 team every year? That’s a “winnning” team, right?
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#372 » by edmunder_prc » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:50 pm

Pharaoh wrote:
edmunder_prc wrote:https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29899564/blake-griffin-derrick-rose-not-participating-detroit-pistons-workouts

"We're not really rebuilding here in Detroit," Casey said. "I think our basketball fans deserve a lot, so we like to use the word retooling, restoring as much as rebuilding. So, again, it doesn't have to take a long time because if our young guys are making the progress we expect them to make, it shouldn't be a long-term restoring. And again, if we get the opportunity to get the right free agent that's out there."


We are not rebuilding. We are looking for the right free agent to "take us over the topppppppp!!!"

I'm going to need a little more than "I'm fairly confident" that the team will rebuild. Instead of taking on another really bad contract or signing Charlie Villaneuva/Ben Gordon to pair with AI. Or however that was back then.


I didn't get that message out of his quote.

I bolded the message I got out of his quote.

Think they are purposefully avoiding the work rebuilding because we've been rebuilding for over a decade and it's tiresome

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app


The team has NOT been rebuilding for a decade. Its been "re-tooling" and "restoring" and "dealing for the guy whos going to take us over the top!!!". For a decade!

Rebuilding is getting as much youth and positive contracts as possible. The team has had an option like that for a while, and every time, goes in the opposite direction.

2008ish. Did not blow it up to rebuild. They traded Billups for an even more washed up AI and signed Gordon and Villlaneuva.

Even 2015-16, team was trending positively. So SVG signed Leur, Boban, traded for Griffin.

He could have tried to build up youth.

Very few coaches/GMs in the league have any interest in that. Hinkie still is god-tier in that. No one is going to watch the Pistons anyway, they will lose money. Go all in on an actual goal of making the team better, Long Term.

This team is rebuilding, but played McRae, Knight and Henson big minutes. Those guys suck and have no chance of being anything better than the 6th,7th.8th best guys on a mediocre team.

Do any of those guys fit on the Heat? Celtics? Raps in 4? How can the Pistons ever get good if they keep making terrible choices in retaining and playing these kind of guys?
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#373 » by edmunder_prc » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:52 pm

Manocad wrote:The part of that which bothers me is the (paraphrased) “we owe it to the fans to put a winning team on the floor.” Some of us understand that you can’t do that every single year; that at some point the team has to be bad or even really bad in order to get really good. I’d rather hear “create a championship team.” Hypothetically, who wants to see a 42-40 team every year? That’s a “winnning” team, right?


Thats what "success" is for the GM. .500 team.

Fans in the stands. GM keeps his job.
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#374 » by Crymson » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:28 pm

Pharaoh wrote:Think they are purposefully avoiding the work rebuilding because we've been rebuilding for over a decade and it's tiresome


The Pistons have done the exact opposite of rebuilding since 2008. They've constantly tried to retool or "rebuild on the fly" so as to win immediately. Rebuilds are multi-year affairs. Casey is saying what he's saying because the average fan doesn't want to hear that his or her team will not be trying to compete for consecutive seasons.

It baffles me that so many fans are intent upon a breakneck rush back to being a decent team. Are people so needy of instant gratification that they don't care about contending for another championship? Have patience!
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#375 » by chrbal » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:48 pm

edmunder_prc wrote:
Pharaoh wrote:
edmunder_prc wrote:https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29899564/blake-griffin-derrick-rose-not-participating-detroit-pistons-workouts

"We're not really rebuilding here in Detroit," Casey said. "I think our basketball fans deserve a lot, so we like to use the word retooling, restoring as much as rebuilding. So, again, it doesn't have to take a long time because if our young guys are making the progress we expect them to make, it shouldn't be a long-term restoring. And again, if we get the opportunity to get the right free agent that's out there."


We are not rebuilding. We are looking for the right free agent to "take us over the topppppppp!!!"

I'm going to need a little more than "I'm fairly confident" that the team will rebuild. Instead of taking on another really bad contract or signing Charlie Villaneuva/Ben Gordon to pair with AI. Or however that was back then.


I didn't get that message out of his quote.

I bolded the message I got out of his quote.

Think they are purposefully avoiding the work rebuilding because we've been rebuilding for over a decade and it's tiresome

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app


The team has NOT been rebuilding for a decade. Its been "re-tooling" and "restoring" and "dealing for the guy whos going to take us over the top!!!". For a decade!

Rebuilding is getting as much youth and positive contracts as possible. The team has had an option like that for a while, and every time, goes in the opposite direction.

2008ish. Did not blow it up to rebuild. They traded Billups for an even more washed up AI and signed Gordon and Villlaneuva.

Even 2015-16, team was trending positively. So SVG signed Leur, Boban, traded for Griffin.

He could have tried to build up youth.

Very few coaches/GMs in the league have any interest in that. Hinkie still is god-tier in that. No one is going to watch the Pistons anyway, they will lose money. Go all in on an actual goal of making the team better, Long Term.

This team is rebuilding, but played McRae, Knight and Henson big minutes. Those guys suck and have no chance of being anything better than the 6th,7th.8th best guys on a mediocre team.

Do any of those guys fit on the Heat? Celtics? Raps in 4? How can the Pistons ever get good if they keep making terrible choices in retaining and playing these kind of guys?


I think they wanted to really just get a look at cheap vets. Jordan McRaes Washington numbers are actually pretty decent and he was really cheap. Knight and Henson were expiring contracts we were already paying.

I think the rebuild really won’t start until this offseason. I think they were on the fence until they traded Drummond. Plus we added weaver during the break, which is when I think the team philosophy changed.
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#376 » by BJK1 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:44 pm

Sounds like the Pistons are looking at retooling their defense to include more zone:

https://www.mlive.com/pistons/2020/09/detroit-pistons-retooling-approach-to-defense-during-in-market-bubble.html

A couple of thoughts:

1. I’m curious how this could impact FA? With a switch to zone, do they now look at an athletic wing defender with a lot of zone experience in Derrick Jones Jr. (for the right price)? He brings little offensive value at this point, but he was a valuable part of Miami’s regular season defensive rotation. Immediately after the Pistons drafted Sekou, I remember Stefanski talking about the need for bigger wings that can defend and his desire to add more. Weaver has a history in OKC for liking big, athletic wings. Just throwing that out there.

2. Can Weaver please tell Casey to be quiet? From his statement that Bruce Brown isn’t a PG, to the team needing to get a true PG in either the draft, FA, or both, and now talking about a strategic shift to their defense, he shares way more than he needs to, particularly going into the offseason. While other teams have likely already deduced these things, there’s absolutely no reason for him to confirm it for them. At some point (if not already), he’s going to undermine the front office.
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#377 » by Crymson » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:06 pm

BJK1 wrote:Sounds like the Pistons are looking at retooling their defense to include more zone:

https://www.mlive.com/pistons/2020/09/detroit-pistons-retooling-approach-to-defense-during-in-market-bubble.html

A couple of thoughts:

1. I’m curious how this could impact FA? With a switch to zone, do they now look at an athletic wing defender with a lot of zone experience in Derrick Jones Jr. (for the right price)? He brings little offensive value at this point, but he was a valuable part of Miami’s regular season defensive rotation. Immediately after the Pistons drafted Sekou, I remember Stefanski talking about the need for bigger wings that can defend and his desire to add more. Weaver has a history in OKC for liking big, athletic wings. Just throwing that out there.


In the first place, that article said nothing about an overall switch to zone defense. "We're going to play a little more zone" doesn't equate to "We're going to play a zone defense." The article specifically says that Casey is looking to mix in a bit of it, presumably where appropriate. The ideal style of defense is mutable and depends upon opposition, and the ability to adapt is always useful. In any event, they're practicing. Nothing more.

I'd say this will have no bearing on free agency at all. In the first place, teams don't go out and sign free agents based on what defense they'll possibly be playing. Second, this is a rebuilding year. Third, the team's perpetual downfall over the past decade-plus has been on offense, not defense. Offense is the unequivocally more important of the two in today's league, and is the area in which Pistons have endlessly flunked---egregiously so in recent years. Last season was the first since 2012-2013 in which the Pistons did not place in the bottom five of the league in true shooting. They instead finished at 20th, or roundly inadequate rather than completely terrible. A roster-building focus on defense in today's NBA is much likelier than not to end in failure, and would be foolish from the outset.

The big, athletic, switchable wings for which the Pistons will be looking will be those who can play a two-way game. Those wings are essential for success in today's NBA. The Pistons are extremely weak in that area thanks to the ineptitude of the former front office. Don't expect the Pistons to go out and hand eight figures per year to an offensively-challenged guy like DJJ. That would be madness. There's good reason why he isn't in Miami's playoff rotation. For that matter, don't expect them to hand out big salaries to anyone at all in this offseason. Be patient.

2. Can Weaver please tell Casey to be quiet? From his statement that Bruce Brown isn’t a PG, to the team needing to get a true PG in either the draft, FA, or both, and now talking about a strategic shift to their defense, he shares way more than he needs to, particularly going into the offseason. While other teams have likely already deduced these things, there’s absolutely no reason for him to confirm it for them. At some point (if not already), he’s going to undermine the front office.


Bruce Brown isn't a point guard right now. He's far from it. Based on his performance in the recent season, he'd currently be a fringe rotation player on a good team. He's got respectable court vision and he's a decent passer; that's all he's got going for him as a point guard, and he's not a standout in either category. He's a bad shooter and terrible at scoring on the drive. Those two shortcomings neuter him as a facilitator and (particularly the bad shooting) sharply limit his utility as an NBA player in general.

He's a super hard worker and, by all appearances, already a leader. And he could be a solid two-way player were he to get his offense together. Barring that, he'll be a depth player.

The team does need a true PG, be it in this draft or next. It also needs good wings. Those are necessities for a successful team.

Finally, Casey isn't giving away anything. Every NBA analyst or executive who's paying attention knows that the Pistons need a point guard, knows Bruce Brown's current limitations, and gains nothing by knowing that the Pistons are working on their defense.
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#378 » by BJK1 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:32 pm

I didn’t state that they’re making an overall switch to zone, just that it looks like there retooling to include more zone. Asking the question as to whether they’d pursue a young, athletic wing experienced in zone defense is a valid one. I wouldn’t expect him to get 8 figures and I certainly wouldn’t want the Pistons to even consider that, particularly for a player that is offensively challenged at this point. More asking the question as to what the Pistons might or might not consider.

Undoubtedly the other league execs know what the Pistons need and likely where they’d go. I’m not suggesting that Casey should insult anyone’s intelligence by making false statements. But no need to confirm the obvious either. Nothing to be gained there.
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#379 » by edmunder_prc » Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:32 pm

chrbal wrote:
I think they wanted to really just get a look at cheap vets. Jordan McRaes Washington numbers are actually pretty decent and he was really cheap. Knight and Henson were expiring contracts we were already paying.

I think the rebuild really won’t start until this offseason. I think they were on the fence until they traded Drummond. Plus we added weaver during the break, which is when I think the team philosophy changed.



The problem with signing McRae because he is cheap and can shoot a bit is... That is not at all what the team needs.

Pistons just salary dumped the "stars" of the last 5 years, Reggie and Dre. Its full tank mode.

Dont bring in guys that can get hot and win games. Plus, soak up all the playing time away from the guys you hope and pray will be better next year, so you dont lose your job. The whole team is hoping for guys to improve. They will not get better sitting on the bench watching Henson, Knight and McRae jack up fade aways and play bad defense.

Just looking at how poorly the Pistons and the Lions are managed is mind blowing. Its like they are trolling us all for the lols. If so, they are winning.
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Re: Let's start the rebuild! 

Post#380 » by MotownMadness » Fri Sep 18, 2020 12:07 am

Watching the Heat vs Celtics and man Okongwu really does play like Bam.

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