Pistons @ Wizards preseason game 3 thread 7 PM

[Rip32]

My take on the game:
1. D.Wright is gonna get us a first round pick
2. Josh Jackson got confident after scoring some bad shoots and then started to take better decisions. He needs to mature and understand the game.
3. Okafor is useless. I want to see how long it takes for Casey to realize.
4. Svi has improved dramatically his defense and helps at organizing the defense.
5. Hayes is going to be a solid player worst case scenario. He already got the tools to contribute.
6. Our defense makes more sense than our offense. So, be ready for crazy games with everybody running non-stop.
7. Plumlee is a solid backup center like Baynes was.

It pains me to see Plumlee and Okafor taking the ball up soft...Dunk the mf!

[Moses ShamMoses]

I'd like to see Svi play more minutes. It seems like Casey has him as a situational guy but not a big minute rotation guy. If he isn't starting we need him to play 20+ minutes off the bench. He is a top 3 point shooter in the league so he needs to play more than 10 minutes a game.

[Billl]

I know the wizards mailed this one in, but I think that make the effort the pistons gave even more impressive. It's hard to keep the intensity up when the game isn't competitive.

[flow]

I made multiple posts in the general board about Wood being for real. One specifically recently where I said he’s a #1 option and got mocked and laughed at by the “experts” on here.

Too bad Weaver was laughing along with them.

I imagine Casey would've had a pretty big input on Wood

Probably so. I don't think Casey ever bought into Wood. It took him forever to play him over Maker, for pete sake. Idiot.

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[JohnReese]

I'd like to see Svi play more minutes. It seems like Casey has him as a situational guy but not a big minute rotation guy. If he isn't starting we need him to play 20+ minutes off the bench. He is a top 3 point shooter in the league so he needs to play more than 10 minutes a game.

I think Casey trusts him so much that he does not need to see him more than 10-15 min. When the season starts you are going to see him playing starter minutes.

[flow]

I'd like to see Svi play more minutes. It seems like Casey has him as a situational guy but not a big minute rotation guy. If he isn't starting we need him to play 20+ minutes off the bench. He is a top 3 point shooter in the league so he needs to play more than 10 minutes a game.

I think Casey trusts him so much that he does not need to see him more than 10-15 min. When the season starts you are going to see him playing starter minutes.

By that logic, he doesn't trust Blake & Rose at all. Not buying it. Unfortunately.

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[Moses ShamMoses]

I'd like to see Svi play more minutes. It seems like Casey has him as a situational guy but not a big minute rotation guy. If he isn't starting we need him to play 20+ minutes off the bench. He is a top 3 point shooter in the league so he needs to play more than 10 minutes a game.

I think Casey trusts him so much that he does not need to see him more than 10-15 min. When the season starts you are going to see him playing starter minutes.

I hope you're right but I'm skeptical since Josh Jackson seems to be preferred for his defense. I don't see a reason why both can't play big minutes off the bench. Delon is probably going to get 20 minute a game and Grant 30 minutes a game. That leaves about 45 bench minutes those two can split up. I'd like to see each of them get 20-25 a game. That means Wayne Ellington should be waving a towel and Bey should be situational to begin the season.

[flow]

Judging from that first half I'm worried the new GM has screwed up the tank.

Fear not. According to FiveThirtyEight's RAPTOR and Elo projection forecasts, released yesterday, you have nothing to worry about. Both models project us to finish last in the league.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2021-nba-predictions/

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2020/12/17/detroit-pistons-projected-nba-worst-2020-2021-fivethirtyeight/3950035001/



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[Snakebites]

Judging from that first half I'm worried the new GM has screwed up the tank.

Fear not. According to FiveThirtyEight's RAPTOR and Elo projection forecasts, released yesterday, you have nothing to worry about. Both models project us to finish last in the league.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2021-nba-predictions/

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2020/12/17/detroit-pistons-projected-nba-worst-2020-2021-fivethirtyeight/3950035001/



.

What is the predictive value of those models?

Just wondering.

[flow]

Judging from that first half I'm worried the new GM has screwed up the tank.

Fear not. According to FiveThirtyEight's RAPTOR and Elo projection forecasts, released yesterday, you have nothing to worry about. Both models project us to finish last in the league.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2021-nba-predictions/

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2020/12/17/detroit-pistons-projected-nba-worst-2020-2021-fivethirtyeight/3950035001/



.

What is the predictive value of those models?

Just wondering.

RAPTOR is it's individual player projection model, which estimates each player's future performance based on a bunch of comparative and advanced stat stuff.

Elo measures the teams as a whole based on typical team metrics.

In this case, 100,000 simulations were run under both models.

Under RAPTOR, Pistons finish 18-54. (dead last)
Under Elo, Pistons finish 24-48. (tied for last)

.

[joeposh]

Too lazy to dig up the clip, but early in training camp Casey made it clear that the amount of roster turnover and reduced pre-season meant that he was going to focus on defense first and gradually layer in offensive sets. With that in mind, the consistent and effective defensive effort we saw last night should be very encouraging. The guys seem to be buying in on the program and putting it into practice on the floor -- even if the Wizards didn't bring their all, seeing that effort pay off is great reinforcement.

Also, I think playing wire to wire is an important mentality to ingrain in a team -- one that was missing all too often in some recent Pistons teams. So even though the Wizards pulled Beal out early and were without Russ, it's great to see the team invested in not letting them back in the game.

Finally, I know Blake and Rose won't ultimately be remembered for their time in Detroit, but I value the drive and competitiveness they bring to this team. They could easily phone it in and collect their checks, or hold out for a trade, but Blake's out here drawing multiple charges in a pre-season game and bringing an edge to the game by getting into the head of a worked up opponent. They're the right kind of vets to help bring our guy along.

[Snakebites]

Fear not. According to FiveThirtyEight's RAPTOR and Elo projection forecasts, released yesterday, you have nothing to worry about. Both models project us to finish last in the league.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2021-nba-predictions/

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2020/12/17/detroit-pistons-projected-nba-worst-2020-2021-fivethirtyeight/3950035001/



.

What is the predictive value of those models?

Just wondering.

RAPTOR is it's individual player projection model, which estimates each player's future performance based on a bunch of comparative and advanced stat stuff.

Elo measures the teams as a whole based on typical team metrics.

In this case, 100,000 simulations were run under both models.

Under RAPTOR, Pistons finish 18-54. (dead last)
Under Elo, Pistons finish 24-48. (tied for last)

.

What I meant by "predictive value" is- how do their predictions turn out. Do teams tend to perform similarly to how they are projected on these models?

If they don't then regardless of how sound the methodology appears to be, these models aren't particularly useful.

[Wharton Alum 08]

I'm just waking back up, I keep falling asleep like a old man anymore. Watched the first half, what happened with Sekou in the 2nd half? Doesn't look like he scored again.

No one passed him the ball, Jackson and Rose were too busy doing their own stuff.

Come on now don't be disingenuous Sekou is still a very opportunistic scorer and Rose has been finding him the last couple games

[DNice68]

I’m expecting about 30 wins for this team. But we will see some potentially good things. Sekou will continue to improve, and Killian will be even better during the second half of the year. Josh Jackson may be ‘this years version of Christian Wood’, just as a wing. He has the athleticism and is still young(23). Too bad we didn’t keep Wood and sign Jackson. We probably would have been in the running for best offseason.

[flow]

What is the predictive value of those models?

Just wondering.

RAPTOR is it's individual player projection model, which estimates each player's future performance based on a bunch of comparative and advanced stat stuff.

Elo measures the teams as a whole based on typical team metrics.

In this case, 100,000 simulations were run under both models.

Under RAPTOR, Pistons finish 18-54. (dead last)
Under Elo, Pistons finish 24-48. (tied for last)

.

What I meant by "predictive value" is- how do their predictions turn out. Do teams tend to perform similarly to how they are projected on these models?

If they don't then regardless of how sound the methodology appears to be, these models aren't particularly useful.

Ah, got it.

Last season at this point (mid-preseason), RAPTOR had us finishing 36-46 (26th out of 32). Elo had us finishing 39-43 (26th out of 32)

* completed record at the stoppage: 20-46 *


2018/19, same point, CARMELO (Raptor's predecessor) had us finishing 40-42 (19th out of 32). Elo also had us finishing 40-42.

* 2018/19 completed record: 41-41 *

.

[edmunder_prc]

I'd like to see Svi play more minutes. It seems like Casey has him as a situational guy but not a big minute rotation guy. If he isn't starting we need him to play 20+ minutes off the bench. He is a top 3 point shooter in the league so he needs to play more than 10 minutes a game.

I think Casey trusts him so much that he does not need to see him more than 10-15 min. When the season starts you are going to see him playing starter minutes.

By that logic, he doesn't trust Blake & Rose at all. Not buying it. Unfortunately.

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Casey is not a hard man to understand. If he is not playing Svi a lot in pre-season, I dont think we will see him that much in the regular season. I could be wrong though.

So far the rookies have played a good part of the 4th quarter, so that means everyone's minutes are down. Those minutes could go to Svi.

I think Svi gets used as an instant offense guy. When he comes in, plays are made for him and he shoots when the balls get to him. He has 100% confidence of Casey to shoot when he wants and that will be his job.

When the team is in a slump, Svi comes in, he shoots. Hopefully get some energy back in the group or add shooting at any time.

Svi's main problem is that he should be playing the 3, but Grant/Bey/Sekou are there. The team has too many guys we want to try out and play and not enough space for them, because of Blake.

So far Blake has not looked good on offense. His normal backdown stuff is not working because he is not Blake from 5 years ago when he had superhuman athleticism. His money play is so awful looking - - back some guy down, spin and flop/try to draw contact/hope for a foul/hope it goes in for a 3 point play. His 3 point shooting looks OK form wise, but its not going in. He needs to hit 40% and that is not going to happen. Guys are daring him to shoot and its not going in so far in pre-season.

Anyways, Svi will play but not sure with a certain unit. He will be a guy that comes in to shoot.

[vege]

I'm just waking back up, I keep falling asleep like a old man anymore. Watched the first half, what happened with Sekou in the 2nd half? Doesn't look like he scored again.

No one passed him the ball, Jackson and Rose were too busy doing their own stuff.

Come on now don't be disingenuous Sekou is still a very opportunistic scorer and Rose has been finding him the last couple games

I never said anything about the other game or the rest of the game. Did you watch the 2nd half of yesterday's game? Did anyone passed Sekou the ball? You're the one being disingenuous.

And yes, Sekou 2 biggest attributes right now are his cuts to the basket and his wide open 3's, so he is an opportunistic scorer. When Jackson and Rose have their own agenda he won't score at all, like the rest of the team playing with them.

[zeebneeb]

Hero ball?? Gtfo. He’s played his ass off. I expect better from your takes on here.

Reggie Jackson played hero ball. Josh Jackson went at one of the best players in the league and got the better of him. Also had his mouth cut open taking a charge.

He has been great tonight. Not sure what game you’re watching.

vege has been more negative then usual lately.

I thought Hayes look great defensively, was finding open teammates with ease even if everyone missed, Jackson was thrilling as he went right after Beal as a super high draft pick, and talented player would, Grant finally looked like an actual NBA player, and overall the team looked very good defensively.

I'll echo what a few other members have stated;

Best defense I've seen a Piston team play in a long damn time. They have a ton of length, and foot speed. Hayes was especially good. He has a clear knack for getting his hands on the ball as a player drives, and batting it away, and also has good anticipation in the passing lanes. This shows a heads up type of player, ready to bolt out on the fast break.

Even if we have to suffer thru another losing season, at least it will be with effort, defensive effort(hallelujah!!)and some really promising rookies, and off-season acquisitions.

Not really, some people around here are just out of control.

Jackson has showed effort, hit his open shots and did some good stuff, but his bonehead plays are annoying. In one play He had Sekou alone under the basket begging for the ball, he had someone wide open for 3 as well and what he did? He lowered his head and went against 4 defenders, and couldn't even get a decent shot off. He's been doing that over and over again, someone got to get him under control.

Bey was a joke this game, all he did was shoot whenever he touched the ball, and he couldn't hit anything, very Galloway esque. When he came back at the end of the game during the garbage time he was more under control which is great, but they both pissed me off during this game.

Well Okafor pissed me off as well but he is just awful. I can't believe I wanted us to give him a chance, Jackson is worth a chance, Okafor is not.

I like Casey but he's also pissing me off and it's only preseason. Blake doesn't even wannt to be on the court, so why the **** is he playinng 26 minutes? Why is Rose playing 24 minutes in a pre season game? Washington played Beal 16 minutes and didn't even play 3 of their starters.

This is the first opportunity this kids have to play pro ball, and some of them really need it, so why the **** are we playing the vets so much? Musa was so **** lost, and this was his first chance of playing. Why are we playing McGrudder or Wellington over them, why are this 2 guys even on the roster?

Isaiah Stewart is terrible but if we are going to give up everything we gave up to reach and draft him, at least let the kid play some meaningful ball during pre season.

And why Svi and Sekou are not playing a lot more? They are by far the best players at their positions. Svi is one of our only consistent 3 point shooters and he has been playinng well when given the opportunity.

Some of you guys think we have a direction, some of you guys think we are rebuilding. bull. We're still chasing the 8th seed the difference now is, we're awful and even if we try hard, we won't get it.

If I had to be honest, I have no idea what the teams direction is as of yet. We'll have to see at about the 25 game mark. I'm hoping either the team comes together and we look great, or the team is terrible. No Piston fan wants another middle of the road team again. I will not accept it. I will be done.

No joke. If Weaver screws this up, he has to be fired immediately.

[Han Solo]

Too lazy to dig up the clip, but early in training camp Casey made it clear that the amount of roster turnover and reduced pre-season meant that he was going to focus on defense first and gradually layer in offensive sets. With that in mind, the consistent and effective defensive effort we saw last night should be very encouraging. The guys seem to be buying in on the program and putting it into practice on the floor -- even if the Wizards didn't bring their all, seeing that effort pay off is great reinforcement.

Also, I think playing wire to wire is an important mentality to ingrain in a team -- one that was missing all too often in some recent Pistons teams. So even though the Wizards pulled Beal out early and were without Russ, it's great to see the team invested in not letting them back in the game.

Finally, I know Blake and Rose won't ultimately be remembered for their time in Detroit, but I value the drive and competitiveness they bring to this team. They could easily phone it in and collect their checks, or hold out for a trade, but Blake's out here drawing multiple charges in a pre-season game and bringing an edge to the game by getting into the head of a worked up opponent. They're the right kind of vets to help bring our guy along.

Good post!