Pass me the kool aid: Josh Jackson

440BB · Post #21 » by **440BB** » Sat Dec 5, 2020 1:24 am

I overlooked the Kansas connection - Svi was a junior and Jackson's teammate on the 2016-17 squad.

Billl · Post #22 » by **Billl** » Sat Dec 5, 2020 7:06 pm

Chances are, he washes out. That's just the nature of signings like this. Of course, rebuilding teams should be taking a flier on high upside guys like him. He's got the size and athleticism to match up with anyone, and a lot of basketball skills already.

Kilo · Post #23 » by **Kilo** » Sat Dec 5, 2020 7:29 pm

Detroit is paying him ~10M over two years. That is not long odds/washout money. Christian Wood was on that kind of deal last year - a $2M waiver claim who almost lost his 15th man roster spot in Detroit to Iso Joe Johnson. Jackson was breaking out a bit last season before the cancellation. If he keeps is off-court life on the straight and narrow, his basketball will take care of itself.

Crymson · Post #24 » by **Crymson** » Sun Dec 6, 2020 5:08 pm

Kilo wrote:Detroit is paying him ~10M over two years. That is not long odds/washout money. Christian Wood was on that kind of deal last year - a $2M waiver claim who almost lost his 15th man roster spot in Detroit to Iso Joe Johnson. Jackson was breaking out a bit last season before the cancellation. If he keeps is off-court life on the straight and narrow, his basketball will take care of itself.

That's fine for long odds/washout money. I'd imagine the Pistons gave him that money (the full Room Exception) for the sake of placing themselves above the crowd of minimum contract offers. For a rebuilding team, that's not a substantial sum.

He's got a lot of talent, but it could go either way.

joeposh · Post #25 » by **joeposh** » Mon Dec 7, 2020 6:42 am

I was a big believer in Josh coming out of college, and he was probably my favorite player in that draft class at the time. He has/had the skills to be a great defender and incredible athletic potential -- basically an NBA ready body. I think he struggled personally and had the misfortune of landing on a very mismanaged Suns team to start his career. But he's a smart guy, and seems to have his head on straight coming onto this team.

He's more than worth taking a chance on at that price, and hopefully can make something of the opportunity.

edmunder_prc · Post #26 » by **edmunder_prc** » Mon Dec 7, 2020 3:43 pm

Billl wrote:Chances are, he washes out. That's just the nature of signings like this. Of course, rebuilding teams should be taking a flier on high upside guys like him. He's got the size and athleticism to match up with anyone, and a lot of basketball skills already.

Yeah hes a lottery ticket. But hopefully we have enough tickets and decent management in Casey that some of these guys will hit.

Wood put it together here. Thats good to see.

Grant has gotten better every year, he could become a solid wing. He bet on himself, I like the confidence.

Josh Jackson and Okafor.

Sekou and Svi.

Draft picks: Hayes, Stewart, Bey, PG Lee.

Odds and ends: Musa, Syverdis, Ball kid, G-league contract guys.

Im liking the chances of a few of those guys being something special. Derrick Rose and Blake hopefully traded for more.

joeposh · Post #27 » by **joeposh** » Mon Dec 7, 2020 11:45 pm

flow wrote:I'm having cold sweats reading through this thread, flashing back to the last 8 years I spent listening to people tell me how young Drummond is and how much potential he has. F that. Age doesn't matter. Draft scouting reports don't matter. It's what you've put on tape the last 3 years that matters.

He's been in the league 3 years now, and to say he's a bust doesn't cover it. He's been terrible. I'm cool with giving him a few minutes here & there to see if he forces us to take a closer look. But I have no interest in gifting him significant minutes based on the player he was supposed to be. He's not that player. Send him to the g league.

joeposh · Post #28 » by **joeposh** » Mon Dec 7, 2020 11:55 pm

joeposh wrote:
flow wrote:I'm having cold sweats reading through this thread, flashing back to the last 8 years I spent listening to people tell me how young Drummond is and how much potential he has. F that. Age doesn't matter. Draft scouting reports don't matter. It's what you've put on tape the last 3 years that matters.

He's been in the league 3 years now, and to say he's a bust doesn't cover it. He's been terrible. I'm cool with giving him a few minutes here & there to see if he forces us to take a closer look. But I have no interest in gifting him significant minutes based on the player he was supposed to be. He's not that player. Send him to the g league.

I think the Drummond comparison is far from a fair one. Drummond, even at his best, was playing in an NBA that had left his type of player behind. The traditional big just doesn't work in today's versatile, position-switching NBA, and even when he was putting up numbers, forcing the offense through him was not a winning formula.

On paper, Josh fits the modern NBA mold. He's got the skill, size, and athleticism to be a 2-way player who can play anywhere on the floor. His shot is shakey, but has shown flashes of improvement. If he could put it all together, he could be more than a rotational piece, he could be truly great.

Now I understand they have both had issues with their focus, motor, and maturity, but Josh seems to have accepted his shortcomings over the past year and put in work in Memphis to turn it around instead of getting stuck in the blame game. There were lots of promising signs in his game before the season got cut short due to COVID, and I think the right setting and mentorship could do wonders for him. Not saying he'll turn into the all NBA player some expected out of college, but at his age, he's worth tending to see what can develop.

Rip32 · Post #29 » by **Rip32** » Tue Dec 8, 2020 5:41 am

Drummond is a woman in a man's body! Talk about being the ultimate cupcake...soft

Pharaoh · Post #30 » by **Pharaoh** » Tue Dec 8, 2020 7:18 am

Rip32 wrote:Drummond is a woman in a man's body! Talk about being the ultimate cupcake...soft

Terrified to be big and use his size & athleticism to bury bodies on the court.

IF you got a guy that big, that agile, with his speed...dude lacks heart & guts.

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM mobile app

440BB · Post #31 » by **440BB** » Tue Dec 8, 2020 11:33 am

Josh Jackson's issues seem to have humbled him and he may be making progress, while Drummond has been consistently low motor and misusing his talent for years. Drummond is going to be about the same player he's been while Jackson may still become more than he's shown.

Manocad · Post #32 » by **Manocad** » Tue Dec 8, 2020 1:21 pm

Rip32 wrote:Drummond is a woman in a man's body! Talk about being the ultimate cupcake...soft

Pretty apt description imo

Rip32 · Post #33 » by **Rip32** » Tue Dec 8, 2020 2:43 pm

440BB wrote:Josh Jackson's issues seem to have humbled him and he may be making progress, while Drummond has been consistently low motor and misusing his talent for years. Drummond is going to be about the same player he's been while Jackson may still become more than he's shown.

With Josh, it's all about maturity. Hopefully, hitting rock bottom, having kids and being in a leadership role to help the rookies avoid the mistakes he made in the past will help him reach his full potential. Casey is the perfect coach.

joeposh · Post #34 » by **joeposh** » Tue Dec 8, 2020 4:16 pm

Rip32 wrote:
440BB wrote:Josh Jackson's issues seem to have humbled him and he may be making progress, while Drummond has been consistently low motor and misusing his talent for years. Drummond is going to be about the same player he's been while Jackson may still become more than he's shown.

With Josh, it's all about maturity. Hopefully, hitting rock bottom, having kids and being in a leadership role to help the rookies avoid the mistakes he made in the past will help him reach his full potential. Casey is the perfect coach.

Right. The encouraging difference between Jackson and Drummond's attitudes is that Drummond has always gotten dejected and mopey in the face of criticism whereas Josh seems to have used it to find his drive and work to get better.

I have no doubt that if Drummond was sent to the G-League for a stint like Josh was last year, he would just feel sorry for himself, offer thinly veiled complaints on social media, let his game languish and be out of the league completely within a year or two. He certainly wouldn't keep his head down, do the work and make his way back onto the team as a reliable piece during a playoff push like Josh did.

As you said, it's really about where Josh's attitude and head is at. He's got all the tools -- he needs to recommit himself to his game, and I think Casey and Weaver will give him every opportunity to do that.

Canadafan · Post #35 » by **Canadafan** » Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:47 am

So hes on a 2yr contract correct? So he cant up and leave us after this year ala Wood?

vege · Post #36 » by **vege** » Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:12 pm

Wood didn't left us, we donated him to Houston.

Jackson is on a 2 years contract, which means we do not have his bird rights unless I'm mistaken, kinda same situation as Wood, we'll need to have cap space to sign him. I hope we do the right thing this time, and actually bring him back after next year.

Drwho17 · Post #37 » by **Drwho17** » Wed Dec 30, 2020 6:16 pm

vege wrote:Wood didn't left us, we donated him to Houston.

Jackson is on a 2 years contract, which means we do not have his bird rights unless I'm mistaken, kinda same situation as Wood, we'll need to have cap space to sign him. I hope we do the right thing this time, and actually bring him back after next year.

He will be EBE, but not sure if that will help when it comes time for his next deal.

vege · Post #38 » by **vege** » Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:13 pm

Drwho17 wrote:
vege wrote:Wood didn't left us, we donated him to Houston.

Jackson is on a 2 years contract, which means we do not have his bird rights unless I'm mistaken, kinda same situation as Wood, we'll need to have cap space to sign him. I hope we do the right thing this time, and actually bring him back after next year.

He will be EBE, but not sure if that will help when it comes time for his next deal.

Early birth right is pretty useless. Jackson will get paid in his next contract if he continues to play like he has been.

Jackattaq · Post #39 » by **Jackattaq** » Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:25 pm

I didn’t watch Josh JACKSON before he came to Detroit, I can’t speak to what he previously did, but as a Detroit Piston, I AM IMPRESSED. He plays HARD, doesn’t quit on plays and is probably our 2nd best rebounder behind Stewart. For a guard/forward, he is snagging boards exceptionally well. He grabs boards and starts the fastbreaks, often being a trailer to hit open threes. He runs off screens and cuts to the hoop. So much more enjoyable to watch than someone just waiting in the corner to chuck threes. His activity level is high and I hope he continues to play this way for years to come. Probably without a doubt my favorite Piston to watch now.

Han Solo · Post #40 » by **Han Solo** » Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:34 pm

Jackattaq wrote:I didn’t watch Josh JACKSON before he came to Detroit, I can’t speak to what he previously did, but as a Detroit Piston, I AM IMPRESSED. He plays HARD, doesn’t quit on plays and is probably our 2nd best rebounder behind Stewart. For a guard/forward, he is snagging boards exceptionally well. He grabs boards and starts the fastbreaks, often being a trailer to hit open threes. He runs off screens and cuts to the hoop. So much more enjoyable to watch than someone just waiting in the corner to chuck threes. His activity level is high and I hope he continues to play this way for years to come. Probably without a doubt my favorite Pistons to watch now.

I feel the same way. Cheers.