ImageImageImage

Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition?

Moderators: dVs33, Snakebites, theBigLip

User avatar
Kilo
RealGM
Posts: 11,202
And1: 4,629
Joined: Jun 18, 2011
 

Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#181 » by Kilo » Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:10 pm

There is no way him sitting out increases trade value - it further kills it. He could have been playing and maybe showing something. If he got hurt - how is that any different that what is happening now - he gets bought out. Only way to create any trade value would have been to play - getting injured or sitting out will end up in the same place - a buy out.

If Blake doesn't want to be here he can opt out next year. Otherwise he can grin and bear playing in the role the Pistons want for him. This is him wanting to have his cake and eat it too by opting in and still forcing a buyout to get 80% or more of it.
User avatar
Manocad
RealGM
Posts: 63,011
And1: 8,200
Joined: Dec 13, 2005
Location: Middle Fingerton
Contact:
       

Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#182 » by Manocad » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:07 pm

Kilo wrote:There is no way him sitting out increases trade value - it further kills it. He could have been playing and maybe showing something. If he got hurt - how is that any different that what is happening now - he gets bought out. Only way to create any trade value would have been to play - getting injured or sitting out will end up in the same place - a buy out.

If Blake doesn't want to be here he can opt out next year. Otherwise he can grin and bear playing in the role the Pistons want for him. This is him wanting to have his cake and eat it too by opting in and still forcing a buyout to get 80% or more of it.

Playing more increases the chances of Blake getting hurt. We know it, Blake knows it, and other teams sure as hell know it. The point of him not playing now is because it serves no purpose relative to the Pistons' goals. Other teams aren't so stupid that they believe Blake will forget how to play basketball because he didn't play for a month. The reality of Blake at this point is that he's not attractive trade bait. He's talented but clearly past his prime, gets injured easily, and is expensive. It's no surprise that no one is jumping up to grab him even when he was playing well. Teams know what they're going to get with Blake and they know at what risk and cost he brings.

Of course he wants to have his cake and eat it too. We all do. That's just smart business if you can get it.
Image
User avatar
Kilo
RealGM
Posts: 11,202
And1: 4,629
Joined: Jun 18, 2011
 

Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#183 » by Kilo » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:17 pm

Manocad wrote:
Kilo wrote:There is no way him sitting out increases trade value - it further kills it. He could have been playing and maybe showing something. If he got hurt - how is that any different that what is happening now - he gets bought out. Only way to create any trade value would have been to play - getting injured or sitting out will end up in the same place - a buy out.

If Blake doesn't want to be here he can opt out next year. Otherwise he can grin and bear playing in the role the Pistons want for him. This is him wanting to have his cake and eat it too by opting in and still forcing a buyout to get 80% or more of it.

Playing more increases the chances of Blake getting hurt. We know it, Blake knows it, and other teams sure as hell know it. The point of him not playing now is because it serves no purpose relative to the Pistons' goals. Other teams aren't so stupid that they believe Blake will forget how to play basketball because he didn't play for a month. The reality of Blake at this point is that he's not attractive trade bait. He's talented but clearly past his prime, gets injured easily, and is expensive. It's no surprise that no one is jumping up to grab him even when he was playing well. Teams know what they're going to get with Blake and they know at what risk and cost he brings.

Of course he wants to have his cake and eat it too. We all do. That's just smart business if you can get it.


If the Pistons end game is buy out whether he plays and gets injured or doesn't play - why not play him? Is the playing time to Bey and Sekou worth more? Sliding Grant over to PF full time? I could understand this move post TDL, but a month before just seems strange. Pistons seemingly only gain in playing Blake - he might play a bit better knowing he's playing for a trade over the next month. He still sucks or gets hurt and he's bought out. Nothing to lose from Pistons perspective in playing him.
User avatar
Manocad
RealGM
Posts: 63,011
And1: 8,200
Joined: Dec 13, 2005
Location: Middle Fingerton
Contact:
       

Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#184 » by Manocad » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:24 pm

Kilo wrote:
Manocad wrote:
Kilo wrote:There is no way him sitting out increases trade value - it further kills it. He could have been playing and maybe showing something. If he got hurt - how is that any different that what is happening now - he gets bought out. Only way to create any trade value would have been to play - getting injured or sitting out will end up in the same place - a buy out.

If Blake doesn't want to be here he can opt out next year. Otherwise he can grin and bear playing in the role the Pistons want for him. This is him wanting to have his cake and eat it too by opting in and still forcing a buyout to get 80% or more of it.

Playing more increases the chances of Blake getting hurt. We know it, Blake knows it, and other teams sure as hell know it. The point of him not playing now is because it serves no purpose relative to the Pistons' goals. Other teams aren't so stupid that they believe Blake will forget how to play basketball because he didn't play for a month. The reality of Blake at this point is that he's not attractive trade bait. He's talented but clearly past his prime, gets injured easily, and is expensive. It's no surprise that no one is jumping up to grab him even when he was playing well. Teams know what they're going to get with Blake and they know at what risk and cost he brings.

Of course he wants to have his cake and eat it too. We all do. That's just smart business if you can get it.


If the Pistons end game is buy out whether he plays and gets injured or doesn't play - why not play him? Is the playing time to Bey and Sekou worth more? Sliding Grant over to PF full time? I could understand this move post TDL, but a month before just seems strange. Pistons seemingly only gain in playing Blake - he might play a bit better knowing he's playing for a trade over the next month. He still sucks or gets hurt and he's bought out. Nothing to lose from Pistons perspective in playing him.

There is also nothing to gain for the Pistons by playing him. There is no outcome in Blake's situation where the Pistons can come out way ahead of the worst case scenario, or way behind the best case scenario. Trading Blake will bring back nothing; you can bet on that. The fact that a team would be willing to take him off the Pistons' hands probably guarantees that no asset is coming back. So basically:
Trade Blake now = no gain
Buyout Blake = gain of about $15 million, but loss of an expiring contract
Trade Blake as an expiring contract = probably the best gain, which is now no longer an option given it's already been stated that it's going to be either trade now or a buyout

This is not a situation where if the Pistons play it right they get back a desirable asset, be it a player or draft capital. Simply put, "screwing it up" so to speak has about the same impact as "doing it right"--nothing.
Image
440BB
Senior
Posts: 525
And1: 320
Joined: Jul 13, 2017
     

Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#185 » by 440BB » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:27 pm

Keeping Blake out brings a better level of development of a number of players this season, while letting him stay healthy increases his willingness to make a buyout deal to move where he fits. I think the toll of the back to back games informed all parties that it was time for Blake to play a smaller role on a successful team.

Less minutes for the youngsters and a worn out Griffin would be the result if we kept him in the rotation. If that happens and he gets hurt, he'd opt in for next year with no other likely options. Any form of a buyout is better.
Invictus88
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,362
And1: 461
Joined: Jun 25, 2013

Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#186 » by Invictus88 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 4:53 pm

440BB wrote:Keeping Blake out brings a better level of development of a number of players this season, while letting him stay healthy increases his willingness to make a buyout deal to move where he fits. I think the toll of the back to back games informed all parties that it was time for Blake to play a smaller role on a successful team.

Less minutes for the youngsters and a worn out Griffin would be the result if we kept him in the rotation. If that happens and he gets hurt, he'd opt in for next year with no other likely options. Any form of a buyout is better.

This.

Given his contract he hasn't had even neutral trade value arguably since he limped out against Milwaukee in the playoffs. He absolutely didn't have value last year and has been far worse this year.

The only way he gets traded is if his awful contract was shorter in duration than the ones we would take back in return (with picks attached). His demonstrated level of play has no impact on a transaction like that.
ducler
Cold Hard Gameday Facts
Posts: 11,994
And1: 7,996
Joined: Jun 15, 2008
Location: France
Contact:
   

Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#187 » by ducler » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:58 am

And just like that Wizards have won 5 games in a row to be a near 40% team.

Sent from my STF-L09 using RealGM mobile app
Image
BJK1
Senior
Posts: 521
And1: 234
Joined: Jun 23, 2019

Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#188 » by BJK1 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:05 am

Hoping the change in coaching in Minny might trigger a little run of wins for them.
ducler
Cold Hard Gameday Facts
Posts: 11,994
And1: 7,996
Joined: Jun 15, 2008
Location: France
Contact:
   

Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#189 » by ducler » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:12 am

And we need to consolidate a big losing streak, otherwise teams who can lose 5 to 10 in a row like Kings, Cavs, Rockets and Thunder will be with us sooner than later.

Sent from my STF-L09 using RealGM mobile app
Image
User avatar
Snakebites
Forum Mod - Pistons
Forum Mod - Pistons
Posts: 36,986
And1: 7,402
Joined: Jul 14, 2002
Location: Looking not-so-happily deranged
   

Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#190 » by Snakebites » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:12 am

Jeez, the Cavs and Rockets aren’t messing around.
El Chivo
Starter
Posts: 2,119
And1: 862
Joined: Jun 19, 2015
Location: Roma
       

Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#191 » by El Chivo » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:11 am

this thread changed Houston season

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2045658
You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.
User avatar
Laimbeer
RealGM
Posts: 34,833
And1: 10,546
Joined: Aug 12, 2009
Location: Cabin Creek

Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#192 » by Laimbeer » Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:55 pm

I like Minny getting a new coach. Sometimes that can give a team a spark.
User avatar
bstein14
RealGM
Posts: 22,634
And1: 2,622
Joined: Jun 22, 2001
Contact:

Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#193 » by bstein14 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:07 pm

Lots of important tank games remain before the all-star break.

@ Orlando (Tonight)
@New Orleans (Tomorrow)
vs Sacramento (Friday, 3rd game in 4 nights with travel between all 3)
vs New York Knicks (FEB 28)
@ Toronto (MARCH 2)
@ New York Knicks (MARCH 4)

Hopefully we'll win just one of those 6 games, but right now only Toronto is above .500 at 16-15 so they're all winnable. Hopefully Rose goes off on us twice.

Detroit 8-22
Sacramento 12-18
Orlando 13-18
New Orleans 13-17
New York 15-16
Toronto 16-15
User avatar
Piston Pete
RealGM
Posts: 16,469
And1: 450
Joined: Feb 07, 2002
Location: Way out in left field

Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#194 » by Piston Pete » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:55 pm

We can (and need to) lose them all!!
MotownMadness
RealGM
Posts: 31,176
And1: 18,073
Joined: Oct 08, 2013
       

Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#195 » by MotownMadness » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:16 pm

Laimbeer wrote:I like Minny getting a new coach. Sometimes that can give a team a spark.

For sure
edmunder_prc
Pro Prospect
Posts: 844
And1: 453
Joined: Dec 06, 2015
   

Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#196 » by edmunder_prc » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:40 pm

Snakebites wrote:Jeez, the Cavs and Rockets aren’t messing around.



This is why those February and March games matter.

Cavs have a lot of talent and will 20 in a row. They dont care.

Minny, they want to get a Top 3 pick so they dont go to GSW. They are going to lose every game possible.


Everyone sees those Top 5 guys in the draft and wants a piece. Except Casey :lol: He wants that veteran grit.
User avatar
Snakebites
Forum Mod - Pistons
Forum Mod - Pistons
Posts: 36,986
And1: 7,402
Joined: Jul 14, 2002
Location: Looking not-so-happily deranged
   

Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#197 » by Snakebites » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:44 pm

edmunder_prc wrote:
Snakebites wrote:Jeez, the Cavs and Rockets aren’t messing around.



This is why those February and March games matter.

Cavs have a lot of talent and will 20 in a row. They dont care.

Minny, they want to get a Top 3 pick so they dont go to GSW. They are going to lose every game possible.


Everyone sees those Top 5 guys in the draft and wants a piece. Except Casey :lol: He wants that veteran grit.

The games matter. No one game matters that much.

And that’s especially true now that the lottery odds are tweaked.
flow
Starter
Posts: 2,292
And1: 1,453
Joined: Feb 18, 2016

Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#198 » by flow » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:48 pm

Manocad wrote:
Kilo wrote:
Manocad wrote:Playing more increases the chances of Blake getting hurt. We know it, Blake knows it, and other teams sure as hell know it. The point of him not playing now is because it serves no purpose relative to the Pistons' goals. Other teams aren't so stupid that they believe Blake will forget how to play basketball because he didn't play for a month. The reality of Blake at this point is that he's not attractive trade bait. He's talented but clearly past his prime, gets injured easily, and is expensive. It's no surprise that no one is jumping up to grab him even when he was playing well. Teams know what they're going to get with Blake and they know at what risk and cost he brings.

Of course he wants to have his cake and eat it too. We all do. That's just smart business if you can get it.


If the Pistons end game is buy out whether he plays and gets injured or doesn't play - why not play him? Is the playing time to Bey and Sekou worth more? Sliding Grant over to PF full time? I could understand this move post TDL, but a month before just seems strange. Pistons seemingly only gain in playing Blake - he might play a bit better knowing he's playing for a trade over the next month. He still sucks or gets hurt and he's bought out. Nothing to lose from Pistons perspective in playing him.

There is also nothing to gain for the Pistons by playing him. There is no outcome in Blake's situation where the Pistons can come out way ahead of the worst case scenario, or way behind the best case scenario. Trading Blake will bring back nothing; you can bet on that. The fact that a team would be willing to take him off the Pistons' hands probably guarantees that no asset is coming back. So basically:
Trade Blake now = no gain
Buyout Blake = gain of about $15 million, but loss of an expiring contract
Trade Blake as an expiring contract = probably the best gain, which is now no longer an option given it's already been stated that it's going to be either trade now or a buyout

This is not a situation where if the Pistons play it right they get back a desirable asset, be it a player or draft capital. Simply put, "screwing it up" so to speak has about the same impact as "doing it right"--nothing.


In terms of trading Blake, getting him off the books is a gain/asset in & of itself. We don't need more than that in return. And as unlikely as that is to happen, there's zero chance of it happening if he plays tonight and gets hurt. So I agree, there is nothing to be gained by playing Blake right now. I just wish they hadn't drawn the line in the sand so early.
User avatar
Kilo
RealGM
Posts: 11,202
And1: 4,629
Joined: Jun 18, 2011
 

Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#199 » by Kilo » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:28 pm

Blake's current trade value of zero doesn't improve if he's not playing. Blake should have played through the TDL if Detroit was otherwise open to buying him out if a trade partner could not be found. Hurt or not hurt the buy out will be the same.
buzzkilloton
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,832
And1: 789
Joined: Feb 20, 2017
 

Re: Race to the bottom: Who's our biggest competition? 

Post#200 » by buzzkilloton » Wed Feb 24, 2021 5:53 am

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2021-nba-predictions/

538 is projecting us as 3rd worse right now. We really need to go on a 10 game losing streak. We arent losing enough to get the gold.

538 has:
1.Minn
2.Clev
3.Us
4.Thunder
5.Kings
6.Wiz
7.Rockets
8.Bulls
9.Hornets
10. Knicks

Its good the Wiz have started winnings. You really have to worry about Minn,Clev,OKC, and the Kings though. Those are teams with alot of tanking experience outside the Thunder who like us have little talent outside a guy or two.
Miss you C.Wood

Return to Detroit Pistons