GAME 52: Pistons @ Kings 10PM

[tmorgan]

if you can't see that, you're either blind or dumb.

It’s right there, vege. This is the language you are using. “Weaver is r*tarded” seems to be your favorite catchphrase, too.

Right there where? Who I insulted there? I stated a fact, Grant numbers declined to a point where they are what they were in Denver. Anyone with a functional brain and a working pair of eyes can see that.

Weaver is (Please Use More Appropriate Word), there is no question about that. There is a big list of (Please Use More Appropriate Word) things he has done so far, you need me to write that list again? I've done that several times already.

Apparently I’m talking right past you, which is my fault. You want to be respected, or at least not disrespected, correct? The path to that involves not telling people, in a general, un-targeted sense, that they are blind or dumb if they don’t agree with something you say. It also involves not using a word generally regarded as offensive to describe the target of your scorn.

Grant has nothing to do with this, to be clear. I advocated for trading him before the deadline when his value peaked, but it was rightly pointed out that the org might be viewed poorly by other FA if he were to be traded. I might have done it anyway.

I’m out for the night. To recap: do what you want in here, I never suggested otherwise and it’s certainly not my role to police anything. But don’t complain about a lack of respect if you won’t offer it in return. As my father liked to say, butting heads just results in two headaches.

[vege]

It’s right there, vege. This is the language you are using. “Weaver is r*tarded” seems to be your favorite catchphrase, too.

Right there where? Who I insulted there? I stated a fact, Grant numbers declined to a point where they are what they were in Denver. Anyone with a functional brain and a working pair of eyes can see that.

Weaver is (Please Use More Appropriate Word), there is no question about that. There is a big list of (Please Use More Appropriate Word) things he has done so far, you need me to write that list again? I've done that several times already.

Apparently I’m talking right past you, which is my fault. You want to be respected, or at least not disrespected, correct? The path to that involves not telling people, in a general, un-targeted sense, that they are blind or dumb if they don’t agree with something you say. It also involves not using a word generally regarded as offensive to describe the target of your scorn.

Grant has nothing to do with this, to be clear. I advocated for trading him before the deadline when his value peaked, but it was rightly pointed out that the org might be viewed poorly by other FA if he were to be traded. I might have done it anyway.

I’m out for the night. To recap: do what you want in here, I never suggested otherwise and it’s certainly not my role to police anything. But don’t complain about a lack of respect if you won’t offer it in return. As my father liked to say, butting heads just results in two headaches.

Seriously, you not only want to tell me how to post here, but you also want to tell me what to post in here? Really? In those posts, only one of us disrespected the rules of this boards, and it was you. This are not your boards, you don't get to tell people what's acceptable or not.

I said before, and I will say again, I don't give a **** if people don't like what I say, or the way I say what I say, that's not my problem, but I will cotinue to do so, and I will continue to respect the limits and the rules of this boards, by posting here, I automatically agree with them, the day I don't I will not post here anymore. I don't break the rules, and I expect people to do the same. By attacking me or anyone else, they're disrespecting that.

I do not tolerate someone who has no business doing so, tellig me what's acceptable or not, and nothing justify personal attacks or offenses over a BBal forum.

Nothing justify disrespecting someone, just because you don't agree with that person. Seems like you don't agree with that, which is very sad, I don't think we have anything else to talk, really.

Have a good night.

[tmorgan]

Yeah, we’re done here, agreed.

[DetroitSho]

Right there where? Who I insulted there? I stated a fact, Grant numbers declined to a point where they are what they were in Denver. Anyone with a functional brain and a working pair of eyes can see that.

Weaver is (Please Use More Appropriate Word), there is no question about that. There is a big list of (Please Use More Appropriate Word) things he has done so far, you need me to write that list again? I've done that several times already.

Apparently I’m talking right past you, which is my fault. You want to be respected, or at least not disrespected, correct? The path to that involves not telling people, in a general, un-targeted sense, that they are blind or dumb if they don’t agree with something you say. It also involves not using a word generally regarded as offensive to describe the target of your scorn.

Grant has nothing to do with this, to be clear. I advocated for trading him before the deadline when his value peaked, but it was rightly pointed out that the org might be viewed poorly by other FA if he were to be traded. I might have done it anyway.

I’m out for the night. To recap: do what you want in here, I never suggested otherwise and it’s certainly not my role to police anything. But don’t complain about a lack of respect if you won’t offer it in return. As my father liked to say, butting heads just results in two headaches.

Seriously, you not only want to tell me how to post here, but you also want to tell me what to post in here? Really? In those posts, only one of us disrespected the rules of this boards, and it was you. This are not your boards, you don't get to tell people what's acceptable or not.

I said before, and I will say again, I don't give a **** if people don't like what I say, or the way I say what I say, that's not my problem, but I will cotinue to do so, and I will continue to respect the limits and the rules of this boards, by posting here, I automatically agree with them, the day I don't I will not post here anymore. I don't break the rules, and I expect people to do the same. By attacking me or anyone else, they're disrespecting that.

I do not tolerate someone who has no business doing so, tellig me what's acceptable or not, and nothing justify personal attacks or offenses over a BBal forum.

Nothing justify disrespecting someone, just because you don't agree with that person. Seems like you don't agree with that, which is very sad, I don't think we have anything else to talk, really.

Have a good night.

HOF irony here. The same person that feels there's no reason to be disrespectful just because you don't agree routinely calls Weaver r*tarded because he doesn't agree with him.

Your victim mentality has surpassed Tonya Harden fake "I'm hurt" levels to now Karen levels. Congrats Mr. Foe List.

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[Pharaoh]

Serious question though, vege, since you are here. Feeling any better about Weaver, the roster, and the future yet?

It is my honest opinion that, if you aren’t, you’re being stubborn. Which is your right, but in this case, you are very likely wrong.

Let's do a check list and see.

Grant was fantastic earlier, now he's inconsistent, not showing the same effort/motivation as before, his numbers have fallen hard the past 2 or so months. He's looking like the OKC/Denver Grant instead of the all NBA player he was before. I still like him and I think he's worth the 20 mil/year but come on, he's not what we tought he was, if you can't see that, you're either blind or dumb.

Plumlee has been sitting out a lot, he's still a solid player, with high bbiq, but nothing special.

Hayes is still a pedestrian player at best, which is not bad, considering how serious his injury was, and considering the fact that I thought he would never play again, thank God, he is fine, and playing, but he is still not NBA material yet (it's been 2 games since he's back so I am not saying he should be, but let's not over react here, sayng he's good). So about Hayes, yes, I feel a lot better than before, do I feel good about his selection #7? Absolutely not.

Stewart has proven to be a valuable player and a great energy guy off the bench. Better than I expected, I love his attitude and his energy, and the fact that eventually he can hit a 3 here and there when he's wide open (that's way better than Drummond) But again, let's not over react here, he's a backup player. Do I like him for the price we paid to acquire him? Obviously not.

Saben Lee is the biggest surprise for me. Whenever he played, he proved he belong in the league. So I am glad we gave up almost 4 mil in raw cap space to acquire him, he was a fantastic selection, kudos to Weaver. Too bad he gave away Bradley for free. He should have kept him, he can play, he is way better than Okafor fwiw.

Saddiq Bey is my favorite player in our team, but again, let's not over react here, he is a borderline starter, at best, right now. He has some terrible games, but he already expanded his game during the season, I am excited to see how much he will improve after an offseason and hopefully a summer league. Even tho he is a 22 yo rookie I still think he will improve and he is our best prospect, he is not fantastic, but like I said, as a rookie he is already a starter in the league, we're luck he fell into our lap at #19, and I couldn't be happier abut him.

Casey has proven over and over again, that he can make some players play well for him, that's the case with Wright, who was awful in Dallas and was great for us, and now CoJo, who was unplayable bad in Sacramento, but now is looking better than Wright is for Sacramento. I like Casey as coach, he has developed a championship core in Toronto, and he has been developing players for us. So yes, I feel great about our coach situation.

Josh Jackson was great early in the season, but someone else rightly so pointed out he had been great in stretches before, but that's what they are, stretches, where he shoot out of his mind, with great confidence, and the rest of his game works well from there. Since his injury, he has been terrible. His shot stop falling, and he's playing out of control. I love his effort and attitude tho, but he might be what he is, and that's not good at all. So I had a lot of hope here, and I don't have anymore.

I am still furious be the Sirvids robbery, I don't blame Weaver for that.

Weaver did a great job waving Blake, considering we're better without him, and we have 10 mil extra cap space thanks to that.

We still owe a ton of future 2nds.

We still owe our 1st to Houston.

We still donated Bruce Brown to Brooklyn

We still donated Wood to Houston.

We still have a crapload of dead cap space for no reason at all.

Our trades generated some possible cap space next offseason, and I think my 2021 offseason thread proved that raw cap space is pretty much useless.

If I'm missing anything let me know, but yes, our future is still terrible.

Our young players are not good prospects, there is a solid chance our pick end up in the 6-10 range and even if it's a top 3 pick, the draft is aways a crap shot. Oh and losing make players lose motivation, SAC/Minny/Pho are a great example of that.

So no, I'm not stubborn, I may see things different than many here, because I'm not being brainwashed by the media since I don't live in Detroit, so I don't have to hear/watch beatwritters being paid to defend the team/Weaver 24/7.

I have no problem if your opinion is different than mine, and I have absolutely no issue if someone want to debate any of the points I listed above, my problem is, people who disagree with me NEVER discuss my points, they attack me, the poster, and that's doesn't happen only with ME, it happens to anyone who has a different opinion than them.

It's the us against them culture, some people are not smart enough to understand what's going on, but whatever, this is not the place for that, but I genuinily despise people who fall for that, and like I said, make personal attacks instead of debate the arguments, that's why a good part of this boards are in my foe list.

Do you still think I am stubborn? Or do you at least understant my arguments?

Serious question though, vege, since you are here. Feeling any better about Weaver, the roster, and the future yet?

It is my honest opinion that, if you aren’t, you’re being stubborn. Which is your right, but in this case, you are very likely wrong.

Let's do a check list and see.

Grant was fantastic earlier, now he's inconsistent, not showing the same effort/motivation as before, his numbers have fallen hard the past 2 or so months. He's looking like the OKC/Denver Grant instead of the all NBA player he was before. I still like him and I think he's worth the 20 mil/year but come on, he's not what we tought he was, if you can't see that, you're either blind or dumb.

Not showing the same effort or motivation? Not sure what you're looking at to come to that conclusion.

Is it possible that after seeing how competitive we were that teams actually started to game plan for Grant and put him under more pressure and/or take away his first option?

You're right though - he's not what we thought he was - he's exceeded my expectations by a long way!

Plumlee has been sitting out a lot, he's still a solid player, with high bbiq, but nothing special.

Who said he was special? Signing for less than the full MLE is a clear indication he's not "special" & his contract was viewed as a overpay by many here.

Think most would agree he's been rock solid as a Piston. He's also apparently a great locker room guy for our kids which doesn't really have a dollar or statistical value but should count for something.

Hayes is still a pedestrian player at best, which is not bad, considering how serious his injury was, and considering the fact that I thought he would never play again, thank God, he is fine, and playing, but he is still not NBA material yet (it's been 2 games since he's back so I am not saying he should be, but let's not over react here, sayng he's good). So about Hayes, yes, I feel a lot better than before, do I feel good about his selection #7? Absolutely not.

IMO it's far too early to judge Hayes (or anyone) on such a small sample size. As in most cases patience is probably required on both sides, wouldn't you agree?

Stewart has proven to be a valuable player and a great energy guy off the bench. Better than I expected, I love his attitude and his energy, and the fact that eventually he can hit a 3 here and there when he's wide open (that's way better than Drummond) But again, let's not over react here, he's a backup player. Do I like him for the price we paid to acquire him? Obviously not.

He's exceeded expectations and again I believe it's too soon to tell what he may or may not become. There's a larger sample size with him that suggests at worst he's a solid rotation piece though. How can you be upset with that?

Saben Lee is the biggest surprise for me. Whenever he played, he proved he belong in the league. So I am glad we gave up almost 4 mil in raw cap space to acquire him, he was a fantastic selection, kudos to Weaver. Too bad he gave away Bradley for free. He should have kept him, he can play, he is way better than Okafor fwiw.

Kudos to Weaver indeed! The kid has shown promise in his small sample size.

Saddiq Bey is my favorite player in our team, but again, let's not over react here, he is a borderline starter, at best, right now. He has some terrible games, but he already expanded his game during the season, I am excited to see how much he will improve after an offseason and hopefully a summer league. Even tho he is a 22 yo rookie I still think he will improve and he is our best prospect, he is not fantastic, but like I said, as a rookie he is already a starter in the league, we're luck he fell into our lap at #19, and I couldn't be happier abut him.

I don't believe it was luck but more the FO being aggressive on Draft Day. That said it's hard to find fault with Bey. Like you I am excited to see how much he can improve in the future.

Casey has proven over and over again, that he can make some players play well for him, that's the case with Wright, who was awful in Dallas and was great for us, and now CoJo, who was unplayable bad in Sacramento, but now is looking better than Wright is for Sacramento. I like Casey as coach, he has developed a championship core in Toronto, and he has been developing players for us. So yes, I feel great about our coach situation.

I'm not as high on Casey as you are but I do believe he's developing the kids the right way (like he did in Toronto) so hard for me to complain too much.

Josh Jackson was great early in the season, but someone else rightly so pointed out he had been great in stretches before, but that's what they are, stretches, where he shoot out of his mind, with great confidence, and the rest of his game works well from there. Since his injury, he has been terrible. His shot stop falling, and he's playing out of control. I love his effort and attitude tho, but he might be what he is, and that's not good at all. So I had a lot of hope here, and I don't have anymore.

I'm on the fence with JJ. Sometimes he looks great, other times he appears to be dumber than a box of hammers. BBIQ is hard to fix

I am still furious be the Sirvids robbery, I don't blame Weaver for that.

As you stated Weaver wasn't here for that so not on him

Weaver did a great job waving Blake, considering we're better without him, and we have 10 mil extra cap space thanks to that.

As you point out later in this post that 10 mil won't mean a thing this coming off-season. Which is fine cause we weren't going to do much anyway until Blake expired.

We still owe a ton of future 2nds.

We still owe our 1st to Houston.

We still donated Bruce Brown to Brooklyn

We still donated Wood to Houston.

I believe we salvaged something out of a departing Wood, which is better than watching him walk for nothing. His social media posts prior to free agency weren't exactly pro-staying.

Donated Brown is a stretch - we got a pick.

We owe a (heavily) protected first to Houston.

Those 2nds we owe to LAC are a few years off.

It's those little details that matter IMO and show that Weaver and the FO had a plan and a timeline for themselves, which brings me to

We still have a crapload of dead cap space for no reason at all.

I really struggled to understand why we stretched Dedmon and Smith, only to sign Plumlee and Ellington. Dead money and for what?

Little did I know they had other things in mind (removing Rose, Blake, trading for young former first round picks etc).

I believed the FO had a plan from the start and this was a major issue for me personally to grasp but looking back doesn't it appear they executed their own plan completely?

Our trades generated some possible cap space next offseason, and I think my 2021 offseason thread proved that raw cap space is pretty much useless.

Agreed but 2021 was never going to be a great surprising off-season was it? The free agent class is seriously depleted and so many teams have cap space wouldn't we be foolish to be amongst it?

If I'm missing anything let me know, but yes, our future is still terrible.

Our young players are not good prospects, there is a solid chance our pick end up in the 6-10 range and even if it's a top 3 pick, the draft is aways a crap shot. Oh and losing make players lose motivation, SAC/Minny/Pho are a great example of that.

Our young players are not good prospects? Bit too soon to tell don't you think?

So no, I'm not stubborn, I may see things different than many here, because I'm not being brainwashed by the media since I don't live in Detroit, so I don't have to hear/watch beatwritters being paid to defend the team/Weaver 24/7.

I live in Australia so I too am away from all the noise and narratives.

I too (did) see things differently to so many at the start of the season but most have chosen to be optimistic now.

Got no drama you having a different opinion since you actually are willing to discuss and not type junk in all caps cause you have nothing to add.

Kudos to you for actually stating your case.

I have no problem if your opinion is different than mine, and I have absolutely no issue if someone want to debate any of the points I listed above, my problem is, people who disagree with me NEVER discuss my points, they attack me, the poster, and that's doesn't happen only with ME, it happens to anyone who has a different opinion than them.

It's the us against them culture, some people are not smart enough to understand what's going on, but whatever, this is not the place for that, but I genuinily despise people who fall for that, and like I said, make personal attacks instead of debate the arguments, that's why a good part of this boards are in my foe list.

Do you still think I am stubborn? Or do you at least understant my arguments?

Fingers crossed I'm not also on your foe list and we can continue to use the message board as it's intended

Maybe I'll try this:

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[Pharaoh]

Right there where? Who I insulted there? I stated a fact, Grant numbers declined to a point where they are what they were in Denver. Anyone with a functional brain and a working pair of eyes can see that.

Weaver is (Please Use More Appropriate Word), there is no question about that. There is a big list of (Please Use More Appropriate Word) things he has done so far, you need me to write that list again? I've done that several times already.

Apparently I’m talking right past you, which is my fault. You want to be respected, or at least not disrespected, correct? The path to that involves not telling people, in a general, un-targeted sense, that they are blind or dumb if they don’t agree with something you say. It also involves not using a word generally regarded as offensive to describe the target of your scorn.

Grant has nothing to do with this, to be clear. I advocated for trading him before the deadline when his value peaked, but it was rightly pointed out that the org might be viewed poorly by other FA if he were to be traded. I might have done it anyway.

I’m out for the night. To recap: do what you want in here, I never suggested otherwise and it’s certainly not my role to police anything. But don’t complain about a lack of respect if you won’t offer it in return. As my father liked to say, butting heads just results in two headaches.

Seriously, you not only want to tell me how to post here, but you also want to tell me what to post in here? Really? In those posts, only one of us disrespected the rules of this boards, and it was you. This are not your boards, you don't get to tell people what's acceptable or not.

I said before, and I will say again, I don't give a **** if people don't like what I say, or the way I say what I say, that's not my problem, but I will cotinue to do so, and I will continue to respect the limits and the rules of this boards, by posting here, I automatically agree with them, the day I don't I will not post here anymore. I don't break the rules, and I expect people to do the same. By attacking me or anyone else, they're disrespecting that.

I do not tolerate someone who has no business doing so, tellig me what's acceptable or not, and nothing justify personal attacks or offenses over a BBal forum.

Nothing justify disrespecting someone, just because you don't agree with that person. Seems like you don't agree with that, which is very sad, I don't think we have anything else to talk, really.

Have a good night.

That response to Morgan was surprising considering the tone of the discussion you 2 were having.

I find it interesting on a lot of levels

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[zeebneeb]

Apparently I’m talking right past you, which is my fault. You want to be respected, or at least not disrespected, correct? The path to that involves not telling people, in a general, un-targeted sense, that they are blind or dumb if they don’t agree with something you say. It also involves not using a word generally regarded as offensive to describe the target of your scorn.

Grant has nothing to do with this, to be clear. I advocated for trading him before the deadline when his value peaked, but it was rightly pointed out that the org might be viewed poorly by other FA if he were to be traded. I might have done it anyway.

I’m out for the night. To recap: do what you want in here, I never suggested otherwise and it’s certainly not my role to police anything. But don’t complain about a lack of respect if you won’t offer it in return. As my father liked to say, butting heads just results in two headaches.

Seriously, you not only want to tell me how to post here, but you also want to tell me what to post in here? Really? In those posts, only one of us disrespected the rules of this boards, and it was you. This are not your boards, you don't get to tell people what's acceptable or not.

I said before, and I will say again, I don't give a **** if people don't like what I say, or the way I say what I say, that's not my problem, but I will cotinue to do so, and I will continue to respect the limits and the rules of this boards, by posting here, I automatically agree with them, the day I don't I will not post here anymore. I don't break the rules, and I expect people to do the same. By attacking me or anyone else, they're disrespecting that.

I do not tolerate someone who has no business doing so, tellig me what's acceptable or not, and nothing justify personal attacks or offenses over a BBal forum.

Nothing justify disrespecting someone, just because you don't agree with that person. Seems like you don't agree with that, which is very sad, I don't think we have anything else to talk, really.

Have a good night.

That response to Morgan was surprising considering the tone of the discussion you 2 were having.

I find it interesting on a lot of levels

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Truly bizarre response that kind of stunned me considering the diplomatic tone Morgan is attempting. Just outright hostile for the sake of being hostile.

I have no idea how his reply, made sense with what was said to him in the first place.

[FloridaMan78]

if you can't see that, you're either blind or dumb.

It’s right there, vege. This is the language you are using. “Weaver is r*tarded” seems to be your favorite catchphrase, too.

Man f whatever nonsense that dude is spewing. He knows what it is. He constantly calls Weaver r*tarded so at the end of day nobody should respect what he has to say, PERIOD. I'm longed convinced basketball reasons is not even the reason he feels how he feels about Weaver. Because it really ain't that deep.

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Yea as a new member that also lives out of state I would agree.

[MotownMadness]

Getting crazy in here

[chrbal]

Getting crazy in here

People are really passionate about the Sacramento kings

[vege]

Getting crazy in here

People are really passionate about the Sacramento kings

This was a preview of the NBA finals so yeah, it was a heck of a game, both franchises are amazing and it's a rivalry that will continue for decades.

[chrbal]

Getting crazy in here

People are really passionate about the Sacramento kings

This was a preview of the NBA finals so yeah, it was a heck of a game, both franchises are amazing and it's a rivalry that will continue for decades.

The “Corliss Williamson trophy”

[Pharaoh]

Guess I made his Foe list since he didn't reply to me!

Weird people take message boards so seriously.

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[440BB]

Once the name calling starts that person loses all credibility and goodwill. If one doesn't understand the Golden Rule by the time they joined this board, they likely never will.

[Manocad]

Once the name calling starts that person loses all credibility and goodwill. If one doesn't understand the Golden Rule by the time they joined this board, they likely never will.

My Golden Rule is "It's an internet message board. Don't take it too seriously."

[Pharaoh]

Once the name calling starts that person loses all credibility and goodwill. If one doesn't understand the Golden Rule by the time they joined this board, they likely never will.

My Golden Rule is "It's an internet message board. Don't take it too seriously."

100% this!

At the end of the day we all support the organisation and want to see our team be successful.

We all have different ideas on how to do that - doesn't mean anyone is wrong though since that's all opinion anyway.

I think it's easy to find positives this season, despite more losses than any season in recent memory!

Yet it seems so many people actually feel worse about our team than ever before...or maybe they're just more vocal idk

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[DBC10]

Once the name calling starts that person loses all credibility and goodwill. If one doesn't understand the Golden Rule by the time they joined this board, they likely never will.

My Golden Rule is "It's an internet message board. Don't take it too seriously."

100% this!

At the end of the day we all support the organisation and want to see our team be successful.

We all have different ideas on how to do that - doesn't mean anyone is wrong though since that's all opinion anyway.

I think it's easy to find positives this season, despite more losses than any season in recent memory!

Yet it seems so many people actually feel worse about our team than ever before...or maybe they're just more vocal idk

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I wouldn't worry about it. It's a vocal minority on a forum that's already a minority representation of the entire fanbase as a whole. Majority of the people or fans don't care that much and aren't on online forums commentating/trolling like we do

[vege]

Once the name calling starts that person loses all credibility and goodwill. If one doesn't understand the Golden Rule by the time they joined this board, they likely never will.

And who exactly called anyone names?

My problem was, the guy was telling me how I should behave, and in his posts he did things that are not allowed by the board rules.

I have no hard feelings toward him, I disagree with how he see things and that's it. He crossed a line he had no business crossing, he had good intentions, but it is what it is.

And trust me, If I ever do anything wrong, the moderators will contact me and let me know, we have 3 very good moderators here, and we had several other in the past.