GAME 61: Pistons @ Pacers 7PM

[Manocad]

I don't see how anyone can question what the Sixers did. They're one of the better teams in the league and their core is young and locked up. They did screw things up after Hinkie, but the all-out tank was a success, without a doubt.

Making the playoffs and getting whomped without ever making a finals sounds kinda like treadmill territory to me.

If you don't make the finals you're a treadmill team? They've been competing for three seasons since the tank and in that time only three teams have made the finals. They have one of the best players in the league at 26, and an all-NBA guy who's 24. Most teams would trade spots with them real quick.

Getting crushed early in the playoffs is EXACTLY what people have been defining as being within the treadmill. Now, are the Sixers a perennial squeak in and get stomped team? No, but they're no further from that than they are closer to being a serious contender for a championship. And their tank started 8 years ago, dude.

I don't have any strong opinions on the precise method by which a championship team is built. And while I don't claim to understand every move Weaver made, I'm not an NBA GM, don't claim to be, and thus would never criticize the method until it fails and never looked very good along the way--like the Pistons in the last 10 years. I see where the Pistons are heading and I'm pretty happy with it, thus I have no reason not to trust what Weaver is doing. Those who say he should be fired for not tanking "properly" are holding the Sixers up as the standard, and it doesn't appear to be working out too well in my opinion.

My point is very simple--if you want to criticize Weaver for not doing things the way the Sixers have and holding up the Sixers' method as the proper way to build a championship team, that method should, oh I don't know, include a championship maybe?

[Manocad]

When having this discussion it's important people really distinguish the difference between Tanking and The Process. What the Pistons are doing is tanking and to me that's already been successful because there's already a culture in place, there's some really good young pieces with the potential to grab a superstar in the draft and a ton of cap space next year.

I'm sorry, but being a laughing stock for years and only having a 2nd round appearance to show for it 8 years later is not a success. There's still questions about the fit and durability of their best players. In short, they could have had the same level of "success" without having been a laughing stock to start.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

Exactly. By no means am I saying Weaver has been perfect and is beyond reproach. But to call what he's done in a year worthy of being fired because the Sixers are the gold standard by which he should be judged is laughable to me.

[DetroitSho]

When having this discussion it's important people really distinguish the difference between Tanking and The Process. What the Pistons are doing is tanking and to me that's already been successful because there's already a culture in place, there's some really good young pieces with the potential to grab a superstar in the draft and a ton of cap space next year.

I'm sorry, but being a laughing stock for years and only having a 2nd round appearance to show for it 8 years later is not a success. There's still questions about the fit and durability of their best players. In short, they could have had the same level of "success" without having been a laughing stock to start.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

Exactly. By no means am I saying Weaver has been perfect and is beyond reproach. But to call what he's done in a year worthy of being fired because the Sixers are the gold standard by which he should be judged is laughable to me.

Yeah it's odd that having the Warriors as an example people will cling to Philly as the gold standard of building a championship team. Literally the only time GS outrighted tanked is when they ended up with the 6th most important player on their team, Barnes. And they only tanked towards the ended of that season.

Just looking at the last 8 years, I would say Atlanta has had a better stretch and had they just kept Luka they'd be way more setup for contention and would've arguably leapfrogged Philly.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

[Laimbeer]

Making the playoffs and getting whomped without ever making a finals sounds kinda like treadmill territory to me.

If you don't make the finals you're a treadmill team? They've been competing for three seasons since the tank and in that time only three teams have made the finals. They have one of the best players in the league at 26, and an all-NBA guy who's 24. Most teams would trade spots with them real quick.

Getting crushed early in the playoffs is EXACTLY what people have been defining as being within the treadmill. Now, are the Sixers a perennial squeak in and get stomped team? No, but they're no further from that than they are closer to being a serious contender for a championship. And their tank started 8 years ago, dude.

I don't have any strong opinions on the precise method by which a championship team is built. And while I don't claim to understand every move Weaver made, I'm not an NBA GM, don't claim to be, and thus would never criticize the method until it fails and never looked very good along the way--like the Pistons in the last 10 years. I see where the Pistons are heading and I'm pretty happy with it, thus I have no reason not to trust what Weaver is doing. Those who say he should be fired for not tanking "properly" are holding the Sixers up as the standard, and it doesn't appear to be working out too well in my opinion.

My point is very simple--if you want to criticize Weaver for not doing things the way the Sixers have and holding up the Sixers' method as the proper way to build a championship team, that method should, oh I don't know, include a championship maybe?

I've got them closer to a Denver situation than Indiana. Young, upcoming team that can win a title but not this year.

As for the Pistons, the people who wanted a rebuild can't say we aren't doing that. We've got like the third worst record in the league so it's not like we're treadmilling. Directionally, I'm fine with what they're doing.

[Invictus88]

I think we can catch Minnesota but worry about ORL and OKC. A win from ORL today would be big for us.

[MotownMadness]

If you don't make the finals you're a treadmill team? They've been competing for three seasons since the tank and in that time only three teams have made the finals. They have one of the best players in the league at 26, and an all-NBA guy who's 24. Most teams would trade spots with them real quick.

Getting crushed early in the playoffs is EXACTLY what people have been defining as being within the treadmill. Now, are the Sixers a perennial squeak in and get stomped team? No, but they're no further from that than they are closer to being a serious contender for a championship. And their tank started 8 years ago, dude.

I don't have any strong opinions on the precise method by which a championship team is built. And while I don't claim to understand every move Weaver made, I'm not an NBA GM, don't claim to be, and thus would never criticize the method until it fails and never looked very good along the way--like the Pistons in the last 10 years. I see where the Pistons are heading and I'm pretty happy with it, thus I have no reason not to trust what Weaver is doing. Those who say he should be fired for not tanking "properly" are holding the Sixers up as the standard, and it doesn't appear to be working out too well in my opinion.

My point is very simple--if you want to criticize Weaver for not doing things the way the Sixers have and holding up the Sixers' method as the proper way to build a championship team, that method should, oh I don't know, include a championship maybe?

I've got them closer to a Denver situation than Indiana. Young, upcoming team that can win a title but not this year.

As for the Pistons, the people who wanted a rebuild can't say we aren't doing that. We've got like the third worst record in the league so it's not like we're treadmilling. Directionally, I'm fine with what they're doing.

It really all depends on Embiids health as he's a MVP player and they're nothing without him. He's 27 now though so time is ticking as he's no longer some up and coming prospect.

Weird to think he's older then Grant

[thesack12]

I was at the game last night, and here are a couple things I saw that are various levels of interesting that you probably wouldn't see watching the game on tv.

1) Troy Weaver was sitting courtside on the opposite side of the Pistons' bench, again. Not sure if this is a regular thing for him for most games, but I can confirm that he traveled with the team and sat courtside both times that Detroit came here to Indy this season. He is pretty animated on the sidelines, I saw him clap and fist pump several times throughout the night, but even better he was jawing with the refs on a couple of occasions as well. I've been ciritical of some of his moves thus far, but I have to admit that I do enjoy his enthusiasm for this team so far. From what I've seen he seems pretty robotic in his press conferences/interviews, but its seems like when he gets courtside he has an entirely different personality and I like it.

2) Another Troy Weaver nugget, during halftime he was standing behind the basket just off the court. The players came out of the locker room one by one, and Weaver didn't interact with any of them short of a fist bump. With one very notable exception. Killian Hayes was one of the last guys out, and when he walked up to Weaver, Troy pulled him aside and they had a couple minute conversation. Your guess is as good as mine as to what they were discussing, but I thought it was notable that Hayes was the only guy that Weaver interacted with in that situation.

3) In the 4th quarter After Hayes' 2nd inbounds violation turnover of the game, there was a timeout. Hayes went and sat down in a chair that was to be directly across from Casey, after the strategy session with his assistant coaches. As soon as Casey got to the players, he immediately directed Hayes to get out of the chair and kicked him out of the huddle. So I might be reading a little too much into it and I hope I'm wrong, but I wouldn't be shocked if Hayes doesn't get many minutes on Monday against Atlanta.

4) Not sure how it looked via the television feed, but man there was 4 or 5 times that Jerami Grant went full on hero ball mode and took it right at a pile of defenders when the spacing on the floor was quite advantageous for Detroit. Each time there were at least 2 much better options to take, but Grant decided to go into Rodney Stuckey mode. Maybe Casey told him to be extra aggressive. I don't know, but from the view sitting 5 rows from the court they were cringeworthy possessions.

Anyways, just talking out loud describing things you probably couldn't have seen on tv in case anybody would be interested in such things.

[DBC10]

2) Another Troy Weaver nugget, during halftime he was standing behind the basket just off the court. The players came out of the locker room one by one, and Weaver didn't interact with any of them short of a fist bump. With one very notable exception. Killian Hayes was one of the last guys out, and when he walked up to Weaver, Troy pulled him aside and they had a couple minute conversation. Your guess is as good as mine as to what they were discussing, but I thought it was notable that Hayes was the only guy that Weaver interacted with in that situation.

"Your ass is getting traded if you don't start using your right"

[Manocad]

I was at the game last night, and here are a couple things I saw that are various levels of interesting that you probably wouldn't see watching the game on tv.

1) Troy Weaver was sitting courtside on the opposite side of the Pistons' bench, again. Not sure if this is a regular thing for him for most games, but I can confirm that he traveled with the team and sat courtside both times that Detroit came here to Indy this season. He is pretty animated on the sidelines, I saw him clap and fist pump several times throughout the night, but even better he was jawing with the refs on a couple of occasions as well. I've been ciritical of some of his moves thus far, but I have to admit that I do enjoy his enthusiasm for this team so far. From what I've seen he seems pretty robotic in his press conferences/interviews, but its seems like when he gets courtside he has an entirely different personality and I like it.

2) Another Troy Weaver nugget, during halftime he was standing behind the basket just off the court. The players came out of the locker room one by one, and Weaver didn't interact with any of them short of a fist bump. With one very notable exception. Killian Hayes was one of the last guys out, and when he walked up to Weaver, Troy pulled him aside and they had a couple minute conversation. Your guess is as good as mine as to what they were discussing, but I thought it was notable that Hayes was the only guy that Weaver interacted with in that situation.

3) In the 4th quarter After Hayes' 2nd inbounds violation turnover of the game, there was a timeout. Hayes went and sat down in a chair that was to be directly across from Casey, after the strategy session with his assistant coaches. As soon as Casey got to the players, he immediately directed Hayes to get out of the chair and kicked him out of the huddle. So I might be reading a little too much into it and I hope I'm wrong, but I wouldn't be shocked if Hayes doesn't get many minutes on Monday against Atlanta.

4) Not sure how it looked via the television feed, but man there was 4 or 5 times that Jerami Grant went full on hero ball mode and took it right at a pile of defenders when the spacing on the floor was quite advantageous for Detroit. Each time there were at least 2 much better options to take, but Grant decided to go into Rodney Stuckey mode. Maybe Casey told him to be extra aggressive. I don't know, but from the view sitting 5 rows from the court they were cringeworthy possessions.

Anyways, just talking out loud describing things you probably couldn't have seen on tv in case anybody would be interested in such things.

Nice writeup

[Rodman]

Grant has been in hero ball mode for quite some time now. There are a number times he doesn't get below the three-point Arc because he's playing much like a point guard. I've been saying this for a while I don't know whether it's by Design or coaching but the ball stops when it gets to Grant. He very seldom post up and take advantage of small players and he very seldom slashes. Since Blake left he has become exactly what Blake was. And he consistently begins his dribble-drive 25 feet from the basket. He needs to expand his game move without the ball / and post up

[FloridaMan78]

Grant has been in hero ball mode for quite some time now. There are a number times he doesn't get below the three-point Arc because he's playing much like a point guard. I've been saying this for a while I don't know whether it's by Design or coaching but the ball stops when it gets to Grant. He very seldom post up and take advantage of small players and he very seldom slashes. Since Blake left he has become exactly what Blake was. And he consistently begins his dribble-drive 25 feet from the basket. He needs to expand his game move without the ball / and post up

Yea I noticed you copy paste this every game. Do me a favor and watch opposing power forwards, heck even centers. How many of them are playing back to the basket? You see anyone running the triangle offense? Nearly every team runs 5 out offense now. That means nobody clogging the lane. The game has changed.

[Rodman]

Lol. Florida man have you been watching Grant sometimes his decision-making is just plain horrible. I have seen him as far as 40 feet away from the basket where the opposing defense is playing 5 on 4