Welcome to Detroit Kelly Olynyk!!!

[Pharaoh]

If anyone doubts that Weaver and his crew know how to work the salary cap KOs contract should give you pause.

Banging on about "dead money" is irrelevant when it's clear we are loading the roster with young cheap talent!

All that dead money didn't stop us from bringing in 8 draftees over 2 Drafts, did not prevent us from signing Josh Jackson, Frank Jackson or Diallo.

It also didn't prevent us from adding stabilisers in KO & CoJo.

Some of y'all are acting like this "dead money" prevented us from adding a piece to the puzzle when from all outside appearances we added what we wanted because of the dead money

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This is such an odd take to me.

All the waive/stretches and dead cap hits were entirely unnecessary to get to the current situation. Had Detroit just held on to Snell, his expiring this summer would have created enough cap space to Sign Olynyk, and you could have still made the Wright for Cojo trade to bring him into the fold initially.

BTW, Detroit hasn't signed Frank Jackson or Diallo yet, so there is actually a possibility that Detroit's current cap landscape might prevent those guys from returning.

Had we done this or that or the other thing we'd have a completely different situation.

You're banging on as if you knew in advance that upon acquiring Dedmon we'd then waive/stretch him to sign Plumlee, who 12 months later we'd trade so we could sign KO.

I don't believe we acquired Smith or Dedmon simply to waive and stretch them. Someone actually stated that it was a rookie error by Weaver!


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[zeebneeb]

So that Kelly Olynyk guy seems like a pretty good add to the team.

Anyone?

[Pharaoh]

https://www.basketballnews.com/stories/as-the-offseason-revs-up-what-nba-teams-are-in-the-dead-money-doldrums

Here's a good writeup to shed some light on the dead cap situation.



Also need to keep in mind that this was written prior to both Cojo & Sirvydis' dead cap hits being created...

The most interesting thing to me is 10/16 playoff teams had ZERO dead cap hits, and 2 more have very minor ones.

Cool, how many teams in the first years of a total rebuild have dead money? The Thunder are about to pay out a majority chunk of ~$73 million for Kemba, so there’s that.

I like the information on this, but I just don’t see the issue honestly. If we were on the verge of making the playoffs or better, I’d have an issue with what we are paying Griffin.

But we’re not there yet. It would have been nice to have Dedmon be a starter for Detroit and then eventually trade him for the right to waive Meyers Leonard and hang onto Bradley, but we didn’t do that so oh well.
If we continue to eat huge contracts, that’d be an issue. Like if we had just waived Plumlee a year after signing him, that would be more of a concern.

Lets break down the OKC Kemba situation a bit.

Not only did OKC move Horford's remaining $53 million in the Kemba equation, but they also got Draft picks for taking Kemba's extra salary.

Kemba was owed $73 mil over the next 2 years, and agreed to give back $20 mil in his buyout agreement, which makes his owed allotment basically the same that OKC would have owed Horford. Keeping in mind that OKC had told Horford to stay home last season, and they didn't intend to use him.

So basically OKC got rewarded with draft picks, just to convert Horford's active cap to Kemba's dead cap over the same amount of time.

To me none of that is comparable to what Detroit has been doing. What is the benefit to all the dead cap hits Detroit has created? Are signing Mason Plumlee then sacrificing a draft pick in order to dump him and sign Kelly Olynyk actually benefits?

Benefits:

Waived/stretched Dedmon and Smith to land Plumlee as a mentor for Stewart and the kids.

Did his job so well we want to give Stewart the opportunity to start so we trade Plumlee in order to sign KO who can better space the floor for the kids.

Bought out Griffin in order to ensure we remove a problem and start anew.

Waived Sirvy because he wasn't worth the acquisition in the first place.

Waived then retained CoJo on less money as a steady hand at PG.

One can easily make the argument in every case why the FO did what it did

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[Tecmo]

So that Kelly Olynyk guy seems like a pretty good add to the team.

Anyone?

Certainly an upgrade over Plumlee and especially true if we're going to see Killian and Cade run PnR.

[Manocad]

What harm is a paper cut? Or more accurately stated, what benefit do you get from avoiding a paper cut?

Ok I’ll bite, what are you talking about?

It's in the thread. I likened the Pistons' current dead money to a paper cut. Yes, you want to avoid a paper cut. Yes, it's a negative. But is it really so harmful that you need to be concerned about it? 1000 paper cuts, sure. But one is hardly something to be concerned about, nor is the "benefit" you receive from avoiding that paper cut anything of note.

[thesack12]

If anyone doubts that Weaver and his crew know how to work the salary cap KOs contract should give you pause.

Banging on about "dead money" is irrelevant when it's clear we are loading the roster with young cheap talent!

All that dead money didn't stop us from bringing in 8 draftees over 2 Drafts, did not prevent us from signing Josh Jackson, Frank Jackson or Diallo.

It also didn't prevent us from adding stabilisers in KO & CoJo.

Some of y'all are acting like this "dead money" prevented us from adding a piece to the puzzle when from all outside appearances we added what we wanted because of the dead money

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This is such an odd take to me.

All the waive/stretches and dead cap hits were entirely unnecessary to get to the current situation. Had Detroit just held on to Snell, his expiring this summer would have created enough cap space to Sign Olynyk, and you could have still made the Wright for Cojo trade to bring him into the fold initially.

BTW, Detroit hasn't signed Frank Jackson or Diallo yet, so there is actually a possibility that Detroit's current cap landscape might prevent those guys from returning.

Had we done this or that or the other thing we'd have a completely different situation.

You're banging on as if you knew in advance that upon acquiring Dedmon we'd then waive/stretch him to sign Plumlee, who 12 months later we'd trade so we could sign KO.

I don't believe we acquired Smith or Dedmon simply to waive and stretch them. Someone actually stated that it was a rookie error by Weaver!


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The Dedmon/Smith trades were 100% made with the intention to waive/stretch them.

Weaver had already agreed to contract terms with the free agent crop, and thus needed to make moves to free up the required amount of cap to disperse out to the group.

The simple fact that Dedmon and Smith weren't brought to Detroit or introduced by the team, should have tipped you off that they never intended to keep either player.

[thesack12]

Cool, how many teams in the first years of a total rebuild have dead money? The Thunder are about to pay out a majority chunk of ~$73 million for Kemba, so there’s that.

I like the information on this, but I just don’t see the issue honestly. If we were on the verge of making the playoffs or better, I’d have an issue with what we are paying Griffin.

But we’re not there yet. It would have been nice to have Dedmon be a starter for Detroit and then eventually trade him for the right to waive Meyers Leonard and hang onto Bradley, but we didn’t do that so oh well.
If we continue to eat huge contracts, that’d be an issue. Like if we had just waived Plumlee a year after signing him, that would be more of a concern.

Lets break down the OKC Kemba situation a bit.

Not only did OKC move Horford's remaining $53 million in the Kemba equation, but they also got Draft picks for taking Kemba's extra salary.

Kemba was owed $73 mil over the next 2 years, and agreed to give back $20 mil in his buyout agreement, which makes his owed allotment basically the same that OKC would have owed Horford. Keeping in mind that OKC had told Horford to stay home last season, and they didn't intend to use him.

So basically OKC got rewarded with draft picks, just to convert Horford's active cap to Kemba's dead cap over the same amount of time.

To me none of that is comparable to what Detroit has been doing. What is the benefit to all the dead cap hits Detroit has created? Are signing Mason Plumlee then sacrificing a draft pick in order to dump him and sign Kelly Olynyk actually benefits?

Benefits:

Waived/stretched Dedmon and Smith to land Plumlee as a mentor for Stewart and the kids.

Did his job so well we want to give Stewart the opportunity to start so we trade Plumlee in order to sign KO who can better space the floor for the kids.

Bought out Griffin in order to ensure we remove a problem and start anew.

Waived Sirvy because he wasn't worth the acquisition in the first place.

Waived then retained CoJo on less money as a steady hand at PG.

One can easily make the argument in every case why the FO did what it did

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Other than Blake, which as I stated earlier is an entirely different situation, everything on this list is quite debatable and subjective as to being actual benefits to the team.

Specifically regarding Sirvydis, Weaver was the guy that decided to give him a roster spot and a guaranteed multi-year contract.

Again, I will say that so far none of Troy's mistakes have been franchise damaging. Still, the guy is not immune to making mistakes. Some people around here, talk as if everything he touches turns to gold.

[Manocad]

No one claimed Weaver was immune to making a mistake or was perfect. Some of us just see no reason to holler “I’m not dying or anything, BUT YOU NEED TO KNOW THAT I HAVE A PAPER CUT. DO YOU KNOW THAT?!?” Yep. We know. Did you know that Killian Hayes is not a good clutch free throw shooter relative to his average? Could cost the team a win at some point. Sure, it’s just one game but still. Definitely a negative aspect of his game. See where I’m going there? It’s kind of an “Ummm…okay?” topic.

Really getting some mileage out of this paper cut analogy.

[Pharaoh]

Lets break down the OKC Kemba situation a bit.

Not only did OKC move Horford's remaining $53 million in the Kemba equation, but they also got Draft picks for taking Kemba's extra salary.

Kemba was owed $73 mil over the next 2 years, and agreed to give back $20 mil in his buyout agreement, which makes his owed allotment basically the same that OKC would have owed Horford. Keeping in mind that OKC had told Horford to stay home last season, and they didn't intend to use him.

So basically OKC got rewarded with draft picks, just to convert Horford's active cap to Kemba's dead cap over the same amount of time.

To me none of that is comparable to what Detroit has been doing. What is the benefit to all the dead cap hits Detroit has created? Are signing Mason Plumlee then sacrificing a draft pick in order to dump him and sign Kelly Olynyk actually benefits?

Benefits:

Waived/stretched Dedmon and Smith to land Plumlee as a mentor for Stewart and the kids.

Did his job so well we want to give Stewart the opportunity to start so we trade Plumlee in order to sign KO who can better space the floor for the kids.

Bought out Griffin in order to ensure we remove a problem and start anew.

Waived Sirvy because he wasn't worth the acquisition in the first place.

Waived then retained CoJo on less money as a steady hand at PG.

One can easily make the argument in every case why the FO did what it did

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Other than Blake, which as I stated earlier is an entirely different situation, everything on this list is quite debatable and subjective as to being actual benefits to the team.

Specifically regarding Sirvydis, Weaver was the guy that decided to give him a roster spot and a guaranteed multi-year contract.

Again, I will say that so far none of Troy's mistakes have been franchise damaging. Still, the guy is not immune to making mistakes. Some people around here, talk as if everything he touches turns to gold.

Of course he's not immune from making mistakes but you're assuming that our FO doesn't have a capologist on staff and assuming they didn't fully comprehend how the waive/stretches would impact us moving forward.

That assumption is where we have our disconnect

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[whitehops]

so i realized that i hadn't really seen olynyk play much at all the past few years and was curious about his play in houston. it's only a 27 game sample size but in an environment when he had to take on more of an offensive load he actually put up great numbers. here's some tape:

Watch on YouTube

between that video and watching some of his game highlights i had some takeaways.

shooting
in the past olynyk was a pure catch and shoot guy, but it looks like he's added some shooting off the move, some range and most impressively added a step back three. it's valuable to have guys that don't need the stars to align to get their shots off (and hit them).

defense
he's obviously not an athletic specimen but he is a really smart player and uses his physicality well. i wouldn't want him to anchor my defense but coming off the bench he should be far from a turnstile.

scheme
it certainly appears that we're going to be shifting more to a 5-out offense and that's where olynyk thrived in houston. he was consistently put in DHO scenarios and with his awareness and ability to put the ball on the floor he got a ton of easy drive opportunities. again, using his IQ/awareness he found a ton of easy buckets on back door cuts/slips and was able to punish smaller defenders in the post when switched onto him. it's pretty much how we tried to use drummond in 2018 but olynyk's IQ/skill set are much better suited to that role.


after watching tape i really really like this signing, assuming he's the backup center. he can provide a little more offense when guys like cade and grant are on the bench and he fits really well scheme-wise.

[jakebernat]

so i realized that i hadn't really seen olynyk play much at all the past few years and was curious about his play in houston. it's only a 27 game sample size but in an environment when he had to take on more of an offensive load he actually put up great numbers. here's some tape:

Watch on YouTube

between that video and watching some of his game highlights i had some takeaways.

shooting
in the past olynyk was a pure catch and shoot guy, but it looks like he's added some shooting off the move, some range and most impressively added a step back three. it's valuable to have guys that don't need the stars to align to get their shots off (and hit them).

defense
he's obviously not an athletic specimen but he is a really smart player and uses his physicality well. i wouldn't want him to anchor my defense but coming off the bench he should be far from a turnstile.

scheme
it certainly appears that we're going to be shifting more to a 5-out offense and that's where olynyk thrived in houston. he was consistently put in DHO scenarios and with his awareness and ability to put the ball on the floor he got a ton of easy drive opportunities. again, using his IQ/awareness he found a ton of easy buckets on back door cuts/slips and was able to punish smaller defenders in the post when switched onto him. it's pretty much how we tried to use drummond in 2018 but olynyk's IQ/skill set are much better suited to that role.


after watching tape i really really like this signing, assuming he's the backup center. he can provide a little more offense when guys like cade and grant are on the bench and he fits really well scheme-wise.

how anyone could say that he’s not an upgrade over plumlee for this roster is beyond me.

[tmorgan]

KO is a good offensive player, a decent (smart but slow) defender, and an overall solid player. The only question I have is… did we need this add already? Are we sure Plumlee wasn’t ok with 20 minutes off the bench, thus saving our early 2nd and adding another intriguing prospect such as JT Thor?

I’m a Weaver guy, but I still question this series of moves unless we really think we’re gonna be a playoff team. I don’t see it… yet.

[zeebneeb]

so i realized that i hadn't really seen olynyk play much at all the past few years and was curious about his play in houston. it's only a 27 game sample size but in an environment when he had to take on more of an offensive load he actually put up great numbers. here's some tape:

Watch on YouTube

between that video and watching some of his game highlights i had some takeaways.

shooting
in the past olynyk was a pure catch and shoot guy, but it looks like he's added some shooting off the move, some range and most impressively added a step back three. it's valuable to have guys that don't need the stars to align to get their shots off (and hit them).

defense
he's obviously not an athletic specimen but he is a really smart player and uses his physicality well. i wouldn't want him to anchor my defense but coming off the bench he should be far from a turnstile.

scheme
it certainly appears that we're going to be shifting more to a 5-out offense and that's where olynyk thrived in houston. he was consistently put in DHO scenarios and with his awareness and ability to put the ball on the floor he got a ton of easy drive opportunities. again, using his IQ/awareness he found a ton of easy buckets on back door cuts/slips and was able to punish smaller defenders in the post when switched onto him. it's pretty much how we tried to use drummond in 2018 but olynyk's IQ/skill set are much better suited to that role.


after watching tape i really really like this signing, assuming he's the backup center. he can provide a little more offense when guys like cade and grant are on the bench and he fits really well scheme-wise.

how anyone could say that he’s not an upgrade over plumlee for this roster is beyond me.

Well your guilty of using logic.

The roster has been masterfully built to take full advantage of both Killian, and Cades strength of passing, and floor vision skills. It is the prototypical current era NBA team.

Olynyk is an excellent piece as he provides shooting, and lane driving versatility at the PF, and C position.

This team can switch endlessly. This team can have 5 shooters on the floor at all times if they want, at every position.

Think about this for a minute;

You can have Saddiq Bey, a fantastic shooter who set rookie 3 point records(and would have set the most ever in a rookie season had the season been the normal 82 games)joining Cade Cunningham who is also a fantastic shooter, going along with Olynyk who has had several seasons over 40% from 3, along with Frank Jackson who shot over 40% from 3 last season, or Garza who shot over 40% from 3 in college, and over 50% in summer league.

This isnt even mentioning Stewart who has a blossoming 3 point shot, Diallo who had a career year from 3 last year, and Grant who can also hit the three.

Olynyk makes it so the Pistons can always, during a game, always have at least 2, more likely 3 or more 40+% three point shooters on the floor at all times, with Hayes, or Cade getting them the ball at excellent times. This is why I'm so high the team making the play-in this year. They are going to be extremely difficult to gaurd, and I fully expect their offense to be in the top 12 this year, and wouldn't be surprised if its in the top 10.

Defensively we all already know who good Hayes and Grant are, and Stewart really impressed with his play when he started getting consistent minutes. Olynyk adds that twist, they drive, or shoot player that tilts the others teams defense.

I am excited for his addition, and I fully expect for him to be an excellent addition, and prove to be worth every penny of his contract much like Grant did.

Season starts October 6th people!

[FloridaMan78]

KO is a good offensive player, a decent (smart but slow) defender, and an overall solid player. The only question I have is… did we need this add already? Are we sure Plumlee wasn’t ok with 20 minutes off the bench, thus saving our early 2nd and adding another intriguing prospect such as JT Thor?

I’m a Weaver guy, but I still question this series of moves unless we really think we’re gonna be a playoff team. I don’t see it… yet.

My guess is he wasn’t ok with coming off the bench. If he was ok with it, then my other guess is that they are committing to a center spacing 5 out offense. Plumlee can’t shoot outside of 15ft and they were already having Stewart take more than three 3 pointers a game towards the end. And they drafted Cade, Livers and Garza who all really fit that system.

Playoffs or not, committing to a system to build team continuity and familiarity that takes years to create could be our way to eventually contend in today’s NBA.

[Obe1ball]

KO is a good offensive player, a decent (smart but slow) defender, and an overall solid player. The only question I have is… did we need this add already? Are we sure Plumlee wasn’t ok with 20 minutes off the bench, thus saving our early 2nd and adding another intriguing prospect such as JT Thor?

I’m a Weaver guy, but I still question this series of moves unless we really think we’re gonna be a playoff team. I don’t see it… yet.

My guess is he wasn’t ok with coming off the bench. If he was ok with it, then my other guess is that they are committing to a center spacing 5 out offense. Plumlee can’t shoot outside of 15ft and they were already having Stewart take more than three 3 pointers a game towards the end. And they drafted Cade, Livers and Garza who all really fit that system.

Playoffs or not, committing to a system to build team continuity and familiarity that takes years to create could be our way to eventually contend in today’s NBA.

15ft? More like 5ft. KO is a huge upgrade and Garza can learn a few things, about playing good positional D, while being mobiley challenged.