A do over on drafting Killian?

[Rip32]

Personally, I don't think this guy loves basketball! I can't believe Casey would only have him working strictly on defense. It makes absolutely no sense at all

I want to be seen with more intensity on the court?

I always thought Hayes looked disinterested. Coming from a family where you're spoon feed maybe your hunger to succeed at this level isn't there. Ask Sekou

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[Invictus88]

You're the one being disingenuous. Every player has weaknesses. There's never been a draft profile of a player that didn't list weaknesses. That's not the same as being considered a project. Which he wasn't. Fact is, every 'weakness' of Killian's has been more glaring than anyone imagined it would be.

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Okay. It's clear that you're being disingenuous and not lying to yourself then. Thanks for clearing that up.

There were glaring weaknesses for each and every player taken in the draft. i.e. indicators that each player had bust potential

Here is the lottery:
1. Edwards - poor defense / questionable motor / poor efficiency at times / sub-par volume shooter
2. Wiseman - extremely small sample size of games, thin, weak defensively, questionable outside shooting (again, not really demonstrated)
3. LaMelo Ball - questionable outside shooting, not gifted athletically, motor especially on defense is questionable
4. Patrick Williams - No demonstrated outside shooting, lacks playmaking ability (very under the radar tbh)
5. Isaac Okoro - poor outside shooter, has defensive lapses at times
6. Onyeka Okongwu - no outside shooting, needs refinement on offensive skills / lacks control, lacks ball handling skills
7. Killian Hayes - No right hand, questionable outside shooting, no burst / first step
8. Obi Toppin - lacks mobility defensively, lacks elite size, lacks upside due to age
9. Deni Avdija - Poor demonstrated FT shooting indicating poor outside shooting, poor defensively due to lack of strength and short wingspan
10. Jalen Smith - Not a fluid athlete, rail thin, lacks ball handling skills
11. Devin Vassell - thin, akward shooting form, struggled scoring consistently in college
12. Tyrese Haliburton - thin, shoots essentially a set shot on the perimeter, not a gifted athlete that relies more on effort for success
13. Kira Lewis Jr - slight frame, slow shooting release, questionable motor on defense, high turnovers for a PG

All of these were known prior to the draft.

How do you consider a guy with no right hand, questionable outside shooting and who's super young not to be a project at the NBA level?

I disagree while the 2020 draft was pretty weak i never thought Killian was supposed to be some big project player. If anything he was made out to be more ready as a guy that played pro ball already with some NBA moves in his bag.

I didn't expect to see a player with little confidence and very under developed basketball skills. Did i expect growing pains of course all young players for the most part struggle but this is beyond that. To be frank he's looking like a bust.

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I don't have much more to say to this as I'd just be restating content from prior posts. Totally fine to draw different conclusions I guess?

[NYPiston]

I disagree while the 2020 draft was pretty weak i never thought Killian was supposed to be some big project player. If anything he was made out to be more ready as a guy that played pro ball already with some NBA moves in his bag.

I didn't expect to see a player with little confidence and very under developed basketball skills. Did i expect growing pains of course all young players for the most part struggle but this is beyond that. To be frank he's looking like a bust.

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Invictus is right. Killian was definitely known as a project headed into the draft perceived to have several critical areas of his game that needed serious work like the inability to go right and the inconsistent outside shooting. Hailburton was tabbed as much more NBA ready but with a lower ceiling. The Pistons went for the more raw player with higher upside which is what most people wanted on this forum yet are ready to throw the player they knew was raw and needed time into the trash after 26 games.

As it turns out, the scouting reports were spot on. Hailburton made an impact right away while Killian can't go right and can't shoot. I think the expectations were a little out of whack for what Killian would be at this point in his career. 26 games into his career and some people are surprised that Killian's weaknesses coming into the draft weren't all figured out in 26 games as a teenager. Not to say that there aren't some real concerns about his long term outlook but nobody should be surprised about his struggles.

[bstein14]

Haliburton was the guy I wanted. I said before the draft he could be Andre Miller with a good 3 point shot. In year one he didn't disappoint he clearly is a high IQ player... he's going to have seasons of 9+ assists while having a great assist to TO ratio. The biggest knock on Haliburton was lack of athleticism and the fact he was a bit older already being a sophomore when it seems most lottery picks nowadays are Freshman or foreign players. He also had it going against him that he wasn't a highly recruited player out of high school. He was surprisingly good as a Freshman and then improved even more that sophomore season. NBA GMs knew right away he was a steal of the draft as he was voted as one of the best value picks in the GM survey.

The thing that scouts had wrong with Hayes with his athleticism. He doesn't really have PG quickness. He wasn't considered a jump out of the gym athlete, but overall from what I read athleticism was supposed to be good with "NBA ready" body. He wasn't a guy like Giannis coming in kid needing to become a man to play in the NBA. It was also something we heard about Stanley Johnson (and Bey) as well about having an NBA ready body. Hayes is actually a pretty underwhelming athlete and I think Saban Lee is much more athletic.

[Billl]

I don't think Hayes is a great athlete, but he's got really nice size and length. And I think he's still growing into his body. Compared to last year, he certainly looks a lot more solidly built. He also managed to absorb some contact and finish a nice drive last game. Didn't see that much from him last year. He'd usually get bumped off the ball or just kinda ridden out of the lane and into a tough shot.

I just hope he plays withing himself and stops jacking up those stepback 3's. He looks OK on the a catch and shoot (not great, but OK). He looks pretty good in transition when he pushes, but he hasn't been aggressive enough. He looks OK in simple reads - like a pick and roll - but all that handoff action he seems to get just isn't working for him because nobody respects his jumper.

Anyway, hopefully Cade gets back soon and takes a bunch of pressure off him both in terms of ball handling and spacing the floor.

[Rip32]

I don't think Hayes is a great athlete, but he's got really nice size and length. And I think he's still growing into his body. Compared to last year, he certainly looks a lot more solidly built. He also managed to absorb some contact and finish a nice drive last game. Didn't see that much from him last year. He'd usually get bumped off the ball or just kinda ridden out of the lane and into a tough shot.

I just hope he plays withing himself and stops jacking up those stepback 3's. He looks OK on the a catch and shoot (not great, but OK). He looks pretty good in transition when he pushes, but he hasn't been aggressive enough. He looks OK in simple reads - like a pick and roll - but all that handoff action he seems to get just isn't working for him because nobody respects his jumper.

Anyway, hopefully Cade gets back soon and takes a bunch of pressure off him both in terms of ball handling and spacing the floor.

He isn't! In fact I think he's really stiff and to bulk up will only expose him more. watch the video from twitter. Hayes isn't fluid at all.

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[bstein14]

Did another look at a few videos of the Memphis game, and its crazy how bad Killian is at defending against the pick and roll. I noticed it in the game but rewatching it he's running into screens and just trying to run through the screener rather than around. This has got to be something the coaching staff talks to him about. At least four times he just completely loses him man in the pick and roll. Also loosing his man a few times off the ball and his guy gets easy dunks/layups.

He had a few good aggressive defensive plays on the perimeter 1 on 1 but he has a long way to go with team defense.

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