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Game 22: Pistons (4-17) @ Suns (18-3) - Dec. 2 9:00 PM EST

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Re: Game 22: Pistons (4-17) @ Suns (18-3) - Dec. 2 9:00 PM EST 

Post#221 » by Liqourish » Fri Dec 3, 2021 5:36 am

bstein14 wrote:Cade would have probably had 35+ minutes tonight if it wasn't for that early foul trouble. It's hard to get a player more than about 19-20 minutes in a half because they need a little bit of rest between their two stints in the game. He played 11:42 in the 3rd quarter and then 8:40 of the 4th quarter so he played 20:22 of a possible 24:00 minutes in the 2nd half. That's about as max as you can get... especially for a regular season game.

He played 5:16 before picking up his 3rd foul which likely cost him about 3 minutes.... and then Case brought him back as normal in the 2nd quarter but took him out with a 1:40 left int he first half so he didn't pick up a 4th foul before half time. Overall he lost those extra 4-5 minutes in the first half because of foul trouble.


Caseys love of CoJo in the fourth, like clockwork, is the issue.
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Re: Game 22: Pistons (4-17) @ Suns (18-3) - Dec. 2 9:00 PM EST 

Post#222 » by bstein14 » Fri Dec 3, 2021 5:37 am

Cade had a very nice 19 points on 15 shots tonight... But Grant dropped 34 points on 19 FGAs because he got to the line a bunch. It's really what will help take cade to the next level as a scorer. He still very much shoots in a way that try to avoid contact which is fine for now, but hopefully over the offseason he works on taking the contact and finishing after the contact. It's hard to be a 25 PPG scorer in this league if you're not getting at least 3 or 4 of those points on made free throws per game.
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Re: Game 22: Pistons (4-17) @ Suns (18-3) - Dec. 2 9:00 PM EST 

Post#223 » by NYPiston » Fri Dec 3, 2021 5:38 am

Liqourish wrote:
His season average has everything to do with tonight. He hasn't been playing 44 MPG and needs rest. He's averaging 31 mpg, is 20 years old and has young legs. He could have stretched it to 35 minutes tonight and prevented our bench from increasing the deficit and ruining the flow the team had going into the 4th. Cade didn't look gassed, that's just the pace he plays. He's done it his entire playing career.


I know what pace Cade plays at, I've watched like every game of his since college. He looked like he had heavy legs down the stretch and was getting loose with the ball, he looked a bit fatigued.

Cade has never played an entire half and it was a close game. I'm sure Casey wanted to sit him for a few minutes to keep him fresh down the stretch.
I have tons of issues with Casey's coaching. I don't think sitting him for several minutes in the second half is one of them. Agree to disagree.
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Re: Game 22: Pistons (4-17) @ Suns (18-3) - Dec. 2 9:00 PM EST 

Post#224 » by Liqourish » Fri Dec 3, 2021 5:42 am

I wholeheartedly disagree.
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Re: Game 22: Pistons (4-17) @ Suns (18-3) - Dec. 2 9:00 PM EST 

Post#225 » by Uncle Mxy » Fri Dec 3, 2021 10:48 am

Uncle Mxy wrote:How many starters should the Suns rest for us to have more than a prayer? Hmmm...

Answer: more than 1
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Re: Game 22: Pistons (4-17) @ Suns (18-3) - Dec. 2 9:00 PM EST 

Post#226 » by edmunder_prc » Fri Dec 3, 2021 11:32 am

edmunder_prc wrote:These games are too late for me. I'm in bed at 9:30 and wake up at 5am.

Which Suns bench guy scores 20? Thats the real question.


Cam Johnson and Cameron Payne both with 19. Close but no cigar.
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Re: Game 22: Pistons (4-17) @ Suns (18-3) - Dec. 2 9:00 PM EST 

Post#227 » by dVs33 » Fri Dec 3, 2021 11:50 am

Not a bad game. Bey had a shocker, but Cade and killa were fun to watch
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Re: Game 22: Pistons (4-17) @ Suns (18-3) - Dec. 2 9:00 PM EST 

Post#228 » by Tecmo » Fri Dec 3, 2021 12:14 pm

zeebneeb wrote:
Manocad wrote:
zeebneeb wrote:That's when you know it's time to trade Grant.

Nah. They've played 20 games together. Give it a minute to let them figure it out. They put up 53 points tonight; I don't think a little role confusion during crunch time means you throw the whole equation out the window.
Let me ask you a serious question, and really think about it.

The league, as it stands right now is super competitive. Its insane how tight the standings are except for the very few trash receptacles. There a bunch of teams that could really, really use Grant, and this may be the highest his value will ever be. It's a moment in time. Unless you honestly believe Grant is a key cog moving forward when this team finally starts to become relevant again, his value could land you riches for the future.

That's how I view it, and ill also add that I don't want any confusion. This is Cades team, and the sooner Grant is gone, Cade will have the last shot, without question, each, and every time. He will.decide how the end game goes.


Time to trade Grant. By the time Killian, Cade, and the '22 pick are ready to compete for the playoffs Grant is going to be past his prime.
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Re: Game 22: Pistons (4-17) @ Suns (18-3) - Dec. 2 9:00 PM EST 

Post#229 » by Manocad » Fri Dec 3, 2021 1:38 pm

Titan77 wrote:
zeebneeb wrote:
Manocad wrote:Nah. They've played 20 games together. Give it a minute to let them figure it out. They put up 53 points tonight; I don't think a little role confusion during crunch time means you throw the whole equation out the window.
Let me ask you a serious question, and really think about it.

The league, as it stands right now is super competitive. Its insane how tight the standings are except for the very few trash receptacles. There a bunch of teams that could really, really use Grant, and this may be the highest his value will ever be. It's a moment in time. Unless you honestly believe Grant is a key cog moving forward when this team finally starts to become relevant again, his value could land you riches for the future.

That's how I view it, and ill also add that I don't want any confusion. This is Cades team, and the sooner Grant is gone, Cade will have the last shot, without question, each, and every time. He will.decide how the end game goes.


Time to trade Grant. By the time Killian, Cade, and the '22 pick are ready to compete for the playoffs Grant is going to be past his prime.

I disagree on three counts.
1. Grant is 27 now and certainly the possibility exists that he can get better, i.e. his trade value could increase.
2. This team has played 22 games together. Making the determination now that it's time to break up the core is premature.
3. There is no way to determine exactly when this team will be competing nor when Grant will be on the decline, especially when you're talking about a window of 1-3 years from now.

Again, you can't expect to be competing for a championship with a roster comprised entirely of kids. There have to be some vets in there to provide some guidance and maturity. Why can't that be Grant in 2-3 years if it takes that long?
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Re: Game 22: Pistons (4-17) @ Suns (18-3) - Dec. 2 9:00 PM EST 

Post#230 » by bjones521 » Fri Dec 3, 2021 3:49 pm

Watched the 2nd half of the game again this morning and Bey is giving me Stanley Johnson vibes its scary. Strong wing that cant really create for himself, Misses everything that is bad defensively that should be good.
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Re: Game 22: Pistons (4-17) @ Suns (18-3) - Dec. 2 9:00 PM EST 

Post#231 » by Liqourish » Fri Dec 3, 2021 4:26 pm

bstein14 wrote:Cade had a very nice 19 points on 15 shots tonight... But Grant dropped 34 points on 19 FGAs because he got to the line a bunch. It's really what will help take cade to the next level as a scorer. He still very much shoots in a way that try to avoid contact which is fine for now, but hopefully over the offseason he works on taking the contact and finishing after the contact. It's hard to be a 25 PPG scorer in this league if you're not getting at least 3 or 4 of those points on made free throws per game.


He's literally getting into the lane at will right now and getting contact. Refs aren't calling it and it's resulting in TOs. At least 2 TOs last night should have been fouls and free throws for Cade. His bad passes definitely need to be cleaned up, but all the bumps and rakes inside are just being ignored by the guys with the whistles and its annoying af.
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Re: Game 22: Pistons (4-17) @ Suns (18-3) - Dec. 2 9:00 PM EST 

Post#232 » by Billl » Fri Dec 3, 2021 5:44 pm

Better be careful. If we put that sort of effort in against teams that haven't won 18 in a row, we might accidentally win a few games.

Definitely nice to see Cade putting it together and hayes and stewart making strides. The only one I wasn't really worried about this season was Bey, and he's the one having the most growing pains. I don't know how you go from breaking rookie records from 3 to not being able to throw it in the ocean
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Re: Game 22: Pistons (4-17) @ Suns (18-3) - Dec. 2 9:00 PM EST 

Post#233 » by Liqourish » Fri Dec 3, 2021 6:11 pm

Billl wrote:Better be careful. If we put that sort of effort in against teams that haven't won 18 in a row, we might accidentally win a few games.

Definitely nice to see Cade putting it together and hayes and stewart making strides. The only one I wasn't really worried about this season was Bey, and he's the one having the most growing pains. I don't know how you go from breaking rookie records from 3 to not being able to throw it in the ocean


All of our guys are shooting poorly. Maybe hiring Beilein as player development advisor isn't working out. None of the guys are developing, they are getting worse.
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Re: Game 22: Pistons (4-17) @ Suns (18-3) - Dec. 2 9:00 PM EST 

Post#234 » by reanimator » Fri Dec 3, 2021 9:21 pm

Liqourish wrote:
bstein14 wrote:Cade had a very nice 19 points on 15 shots tonight... But Grant dropped 34 points on 19 FGAs because he got to the line a bunch. It's really what will help take cade to the next level as a scorer. He still very much shoots in a way that try to avoid contact which is fine for now, but hopefully over the offseason he works on taking the contact and finishing after the contact. It's hard to be a 25 PPG scorer in this league if you're not getting at least 3 or 4 of those points on made free throws per game.


He's literally getting into the lane at will right now and getting contact. Refs aren't calling it and it's resulting in TOs. At least 2 TOs last night should have been fouls and free throws for Cade. His bad passes definitely need to be cleaned up, but all the bumps and rakes inside are just being ignored by the guys with the whistles and its annoying af.


Those aren't going to get called.

Cade needs to hit the weight room and work on that core strength so he can hold his spots/balance.
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Re: Game 22: Pistons (4-17) @ Suns (18-3) - Dec. 2 9:00 PM EST 

Post#235 » by Sort » Fri Dec 3, 2021 11:34 pm

Right now, Bey needs to settle back into 3 and D. His handle is well enough to drive a few times a game, but this shot creation off the dribble for a contested midrange needs to end. He doesn't have the speed, athleticism or shot development at this point to play that way, and I'm not sure he ever will.

Pistons need a refined version of Bey the rookie, not a reformed one. If you want Bey to continue to explore that style of play, start Diallo and let Bey go against second units.

On a random tangent, I do wonder if Diallo wouldn't be a good situational small ball five. He'd be crushed by strong fives like Ayton, but could do just as well as Lyles and bring more defense and creativity to the game in small stretches.
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Re: Game 22: Pistons (4-17) @ Suns (18-3) - Dec. 2 9:00 PM EST 

Post#236 » by Manocad » Sat Dec 4, 2021 2:13 am

Sort wrote:Right now, Bey needs to settle back into 3 and D. His handle is well enough to drive a few times a game, but this shot creation off the dribble for a contested midrange needs to end. He doesn't have the speed, athleticism or shot development at this point to play that way, and I'm not sure he ever will.

Pistons need a refined version of Bey the rookie, not a reformed one. If you want Bey to continue to explore that style of play, start Diallo and let Bey go against second units.

On a random tangent, I do wonder if Diallo wouldn't be a good situational small ball five. He'd be crushed by strong fives like Ayton, but could do just as well as Lyles and bring more defense and creativity to the game in small stretches.

Diallo as a small ball center? Really?
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Re: Game 22: Pistons (4-17) @ Suns (18-3) - Dec. 2 9:00 PM EST 

Post#237 » by DetroitSho » Sat Dec 4, 2021 6:31 am

Manocad wrote:
Sort wrote:Right now, Bey needs to settle back into 3 and D. His handle is well enough to drive a few times a game, but this shot creation off the dribble for a contested midrange needs to end. He doesn't have the speed, athleticism or shot development at this point to play that way, and I'm not sure he ever will.

Pistons need a refined version of Bey the rookie, not a reformed one. If you want Bey to continue to explore that style of play, start Diallo and let Bey go against second units.

On a random tangent, I do wonder if Diallo wouldn't be a good situational small ball five. He'd be crushed by strong fives like Ayton, but could do just as well as Lyles and bring more defense and creativity to the game in small stretches.

Diallo as a small ball center? Really?
I read that earlier and immediately logged off for hours until now. A person with a take like this better NEVER complain about a Casey rotation.

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