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Game 62: Pistons (15-46) @ Wizards (27-33) Mar. 1 7:00 PM EST

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Re: Game 62: Pistons (15-46) @ Wizards (27-33) Mar. 1 7:00 PM EST 

Post#101 » by Manocad » Wed Mar 2, 2022 1:53 pm

I think part of the problem with evaluating this team is that there's an expectation by some that in order to win a championship the team has to have a top tier player at every position relative to that position's "value" in the lineup from a 1-12 standpoint. To clarify I'll use Diallo as the example. He puts up 11 PPG on 49.5%/25.0% this year with 4.8 RPG, 1.3 APG and 1.2 steals in 22.3 minutes/game. Certainly debatable whether that's a guy you plug in next to Cade given the lack of 3 point shooting. But as bench player? Uh, YEAH, I'll take that all day long. So he's not a "super sub" 6th man who doesn't start but winds up playing 30 minutes/game and scoring 18 PPG. He doesn't need to be a top 5 6th man in order to have value to the team. As has been pointed out he fills a role and adds a particular dynamic that has value. Do THAT for every spot in the lineup rather than just looking at a deficiency and saying "We need a player who does everything Diallo does AND can shoot 3's better." You have to accept some warts here and there and expect that if the team is built properly, one guy's weakness is overcome by the strength of a guy playing next to him, and vice versa.
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Re: Game 62: Pistons (15-46) @ Wizards (27-33) Mar. 1 7:00 PM EST 

Post#102 » by Billl » Wed Mar 2, 2022 3:02 pm

Diallo is a dynamic player. He's got work to do, but you take him 10 times out of 10 on the bench.

However, if most of the guys on the team have glaring holes in their game, it's really hard to build a winning team out of them. You can have 1 hustle guy that plays D and can't knock down a shot. You can't have 3 guys in the rotation whose primary "skill" is playing hard. That's not diallo's fault, but something has to give with him, hayes, and stewart not being able to hit a jumper if they are all going to be rotation staples.

You saw that a lot last night. Cade's getting into the lane , he draws a bunch of defense, and creates a lot of space for a teammate. We need some guys who actually can take advantage of that. It's not all jumpers of course. Our frontcourt guys need to be able to catch and finish down low. Our slashers need to be using that space to get to the lane, not settling for jumpers. But yeah, we absolutely need some more guys who can knock down shots on the perimeter. We're currently a really bad shooting team - way down at the bottom in terms of made 2's and made 3's and percentage overall and percentage from 3.
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Re: Game 62: Pistons (15-46) @ Wizards (27-33) Mar. 1 7:00 PM EST 

Post#103 » by zeebneeb » Wed Mar 2, 2022 3:13 pm

Billl wrote:Diallo is a dynamic player. He's got work to do, but you take him 10 times out of 10 on the bench.

However, if most of the guys on the team have glaring holes in their game, it's really hard to build a winning team out of them. You can have 1 hustle guy that plays D and can't knock down a shot. You can't have 3 guys in the rotation whose primary "skill" is playing hard. That's not diallo's fault, but something has to give with him, hayes, and stewart not being able to hit a jumper if they are all going to be rotation staples.

You saw that a lot last night. Cade's getting into the lane , he draws a bunch of defense, and creates a lot of space for a teammate. We need some guys who actually can take advantage of that. It's not all jumpers of course. Our frontcourt guys need to be able to catch and finish down low. Our slashers need to be using that space to get to the lane, not settling for jumpers. But yeah, we absolutely need some more guys who can knock down shots on the perimeter. We're currently a really bad shooting team - way down at the bottom in terms of made 2's and made 3's and percentage overall and percentage from 3.
The bolded is spot on. Cade plays similar to Luka in that he seems able to get into the lane, at will, and make great decisions, but in Cades case, he doesn't have Powell to grab lobs, Brunson, Smith, or Bullock spreading the floor, or Kleber setting screens for the pick and pop/roll.

As soon as Bagley was added, when Cade was playing with him, he immediately used him exactly the same way Luka uses his athletic bigmen.

It is imperative that Weaver builds a similar team around Cade, that has been built around Luka. Detroit is worse off now, but because they are going to have a high draft pick, free agent money, and tradeable assets, they could have a much higher ceiling that Dallas does because of how they limited themselves early in their build.

Get the same pieces Luka has, just of much higher quality.
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Re: Game 62: Pistons (15-46) @ Wizards (27-33) Mar. 1 7:00 PM EST 

Post#104 » by Kalamazoo317 » Wed Mar 2, 2022 3:17 pm

Last few games have shown me that Grant, Bey, and Cade can play together and we can have a balanced offense with all three of them together, which is kind of exciting. I think they're starting to gel together more and we've been a lot more competitive as a result. Could we still use another top end talent? Sure. But I think we're moving towards the point where internal improvement and roster continuity is going to fetch us as many gains as bringing in outside players will.
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Re: Game 62: Pistons (15-46) @ Wizards (27-33) Mar. 1 7:00 PM EST 

Post#105 » by Southern Piston » Wed Mar 2, 2022 3:28 pm

We draft a big, we have three rising in Bagley, Draft Pick, and Stewart

Wings-Bey, Diallo, Grant

Guards-Cunningham and Hayes

But there’s really no good shooting guards on free agency this summer, that will come to us, and very little formidable buyouts. I’m very curious the route Weaver takes.
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Re: Game 62: Pistons (15-46) @ Wizards (27-33) Mar. 1 7:00 PM EST 

Post#106 » by Manocad » Wed Mar 2, 2022 4:09 pm

Southern Piston wrote:We draft a big, we have three rising in Bagley, Draft Pick, and Stewart

Wings-Bey, Diallo, Grant

Guards-Cunningham and Hayes

But there’s really no good shooting guards on free agency this summer, that will come to us, and very little formidable buyouts. I’m very curious the route Weaver takes.

The important part is to not look at any of this in a vacuum when considering not only the draft pick and free agency this year, but next year as well.

As I've posted previously I don't think it's fair to hold Weaver to a standard that next year has to be THE YEAR that it all has to come together, i.e. all needs addressed and a team that can put a deep playoff run together is in place. I think the expectation should be to improve enough to make or get close to the playoffs next season, then potentially make the (hopefully) last big splash after next season. Now, all of that of course depends on that combination of who's available when the Pistons draft vs who's available in free agency this year vs who's available in free agency (and maybe even the draft) next year. Is it possible to fill all the gaps this offseason and have what we all hope will be THE TEAM in place starting next season? Maybe. It just shouldn't be expected IMO.
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Re: Game 62: Pistons (15-46) @ Wizards (27-33) Mar. 1 7:00 PM EST 

Post#107 » by Cowology » Wed Mar 2, 2022 4:20 pm

Based on fan reactions it's easy to understand why the franchise resisted blowing it up for so long. Most people don't have the patience for a rebuild.
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Re: Game 62: Pistons (15-46) @ Wizards (27-33) Mar. 1 7:00 PM EST 

Post#108 » by Invictus88 » Wed Mar 2, 2022 5:01 pm

Cowology wrote:Based on fan reactions it's easy to understand why the franchise resisted blowing it up for so long. Most people don't have the patience for a rebuild.

Not trying to sound too sarcastic but this was a conclusion that could be drawn countless times people called for franchise-debilatating impulse signings during the last decade and a half.

It's amazing how willing people are to follow the same foolhardy shortcuts to nowhere in hopes the next time they will magically lead somewhere else.
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Re: Game 62: Pistons (15-46) @ Wizards (27-33) Mar. 1 7:00 PM EST 

Post#109 » by Manocad » Wed Mar 2, 2022 5:53 pm

Invictus88 wrote:
Cowology wrote:Based on fan reactions it's easy to understand why the franchise resisted blowing it up for so long. Most people don't have the patience for a rebuild.

Not trying to sound too sarcastic but this was a conclusion that could be drawn countless times people called for franchise-debilatating impulse signings during the last decade and a half.

It's amazing how willing people are to follow the same foolhardy shortcuts to nowhere in hopes the next time they will magically lead somewhere else.

Absolutely. The part to me that sticks out as perplexing beyond the obvious point of having gone down that road before and it not only not working, but coming nowhere close to working while at the same time crippling the organization in the future, is the use of terms like "something has to be done" and "the organization can't expect the fans to keep waiting." Who dictates that "something has to be done"? Who dictates that the fans won't wait, and even if they won't, what's the implication there? That the fans can impact the organization to the extent that doing what the fans want when they want is a make or break exercise?

As I've posted before, the people who run an NBA team know a HELLUVA LOT more than a bunch of yahoos on an internet message board about A) what it takes to build a championship-level team, and B) what the ramifications are to the organization over X period of time needed to build a championship-level team all the way from fan support via merchandising dollars spent/butts in seats to straight up team financials. It isn't logical in any way for Joe Blow to think that the organization hasn't already considered that to the nth degree before determining a timeframe for a rebuild.
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Re: Game 62: Pistons (15-46) @ Wizards (27-33) Mar. 1 7:00 PM EST 

Post#110 » by Drwho17 » Wed Mar 2, 2022 6:19 pm

bstein14 wrote:Best part, at this point of the season I'm great with getting the W or L. No disappointment at all if we get the L because it helps keep up near/at the bottom.

Just need to watch out for OKC, they are capable of putting on a good tank. Other than that, Pistons are a lock for bottom 3 I think.
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Re: Game 62: Pistons (15-46) @ Wizards (27-33) Mar. 1 7:00 PM EST 

Post#111 » by Drwho17 » Wed Mar 2, 2022 6:27 pm

Cowology wrote:
vege wrote:
MotorCade2 wrote:
This was literally a perfect game. Our big 3 all played great individually and together and we looked really decent but still ended up with a loss by a few points. I hope every game the rest of the season is like this.


So, it's already safe to say, people were wrong saying Cade and Bey only got better because Grant got injured, and the 3 don't fit well together, right?

They've been playing well together, and the # of shots have been ballanced between the 3.
All 3 have been inconsistent. We've seen flashes of them playing well together, but we've also seen plenty of examples where they have not. Grant is typically the catalyst. When he decides to iso and drive into multiple defenders we struggle as a team. When he plays within the offense everybody plays better.

The question is going to be whether Grant can consistently play the way we need him to play. It's one of the big things I'm looking for the last 20 games and I don't think it's a sure thing. But we'll see.

Yes, this. It's Grant that needs to adjust, he's playing better in this stretch, not so much with the wild stuff, I think he's even amped up his defense since he has came back. Bey hasn't gone MIA as much. I think Casey should change up the rotations a bit though to help further, stagger guys in and out. Not just starters play 8 minutes, then subs 8 then starters, like other teams do staggering their better players with the bench guys.
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Re: Game 62: Pistons (15-46) @ Wizards (27-33) Mar. 1 7:00 PM EST 

Post#112 » by bstein14 » Wed Mar 2, 2022 6:44 pm

Drwho17 wrote:
bstein14 wrote:Best part, at this point of the season I'm great with getting the W or L. No disappointment at all if we get the L because it helps keep up near/at the bottom.

Just need to watch out for OKC, they are capable of putting on a good tank. Other than that, Pistons are a lock for bottom 3 I think.


Agreed that OKC is the one team to root for to win some games because they're the most likely team to drop down and knock out one of the other bottom 3 teams that have been cemented in the bottom 3 all season.
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Re: Game 62: Pistons (15-46) @ Wizards (27-33) Mar. 1 7:00 PM EST 

Post#113 » by whitehops » Wed Mar 2, 2022 7:41 pm

THIS was my favourite play from last night and shows a glimpse at why our "big 3" have looked good the past five games.

cade initiates the play which he's been doing a ton lately, both bey and grant get their touches (in positions where they can make easy plays) and it finishes with an open corner 3. if you put either bey or grant in cade's position in the pick and roll there's no way they make that read or pass on time and them initiating the offense most of the time early in the year is what led to their play being criticized.

If they keep the same dynamic up I think it will be a very enjoyable final 19 games to watch.
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Re: Game 62: Pistons (15-46) @ Wizards (27-33) Mar. 1 7:00 PM EST 

Post#114 » by tmorgan » Wed Mar 2, 2022 8:53 pm

Yeah, that was nice.
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Re: Game 62: Pistons (15-46) @ Wizards (27-33) Mar. 1 7:00 PM EST 

Post#115 » by Kalamazoo317 » Thu Mar 3, 2022 1:27 am

whitehops wrote:THIS was my favourite play from last night and shows a glimpse at why our "big 3" have looked good the past five games.

cade initiates the play which he's been doing a ton lately, both bey and grant get their touches (in positions where they can make easy plays) and it finishes with an open corner 3. if you put either bey or grant in cade's position in the pick and roll there's no way they make that read or pass on time and them initiating the offense most of the time early in the year is what led to their play being criticized.

If they keep the same dynamic up I think it will be a very enjoyable final 19 games to watch.


What's great about that play is that while Cade is the only one with the skill set to really make the initial pass, any of those three could make the second pass or knock down the open three. And Hayes also has the skill set to make the initial pass.

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