20+ win increase…

[Billl]

We only won 23 games, so we are talking 43-41? We were playing slightly under 500 ball post all star break, so it's not a big stretch. The real question is how we lay a foundation to be able to be respectable next year and have a real path to contention in the following years. Signing role players to long term contracts isn't going to get us there.

[bstein14]

We only won 23 games, so we are talking 43-41? We were playing slightly under 500 ball post all star break, so it's not a big stretch. The real question is how we lay a foundation to be able to be respectable next year and have a real path to contention in the following years. Signing role players to long term contracts isn't going to get us there.

Who's a role player, and who could become more given a bigger role? That's the question. We gave Ben Wallace a 6 year deal in 2000 and we gave Billups a full MLE deal as well not long after and neither of those guys were "star" or even above average starters before we signed them.

[flow]

What will it take for a 20+ win increase to make the playin? Trade, FA, and draft suggestions.

A new coach, for one.

[Manocad]

What will it take for a 20+ win increase to make the playin? Trade, FA, and draft suggestions.

A new coach, for one.

Nah. Talent alone will win 40+ games.

[Billl]

We only won 23 games, so we are talking 43-41? We were playing slightly under 500 ball post all star break, so it's not a big stretch. The real question is how we lay a foundation to be able to be respectable next year and have a real path to contention in the following years. Signing role players to long term contracts isn't going to get us there.

Who's a role player, and who could become more given a bigger role? That's the question. We gave Ben Wallace a 6 year deal in 2000 and we gave Billups a full MLE deal as well not long after and neither of those guys were "star" or even above average starters before we signed them.

Above average starter is a top 14 player at their position, so that's not a realistic bar to judge young guys against.

Chauncey started the whole year before we signed him. He just had an injured all-star in front of him that was going to return, so he left for someplace else he could start. And he as the #3 pick.
Ben started for orlando and was top 10 already in rebounds and blocks per 36.

Most importantly, they were young and had some upside. Obviously, you can never tell how much better a guy like that is going to get. However, we know for damn sure that the 30 yr old role playing centers we keep signing aren't going to turn into young all-stars. We need to stop signing guys like that.

[coolness]

I hope any win increase isn't the goal. The goal should be how good we are in 3-5 years.

[vege]

So, my new dream scenario, could possibly get us 20+ win increase, at least I think it could.

I am not getting anything out of my ass, as usual this is not even my trade idea, it was originally posted by a Utah fan, and tweaked by a Toronto fan, and it's a good trade idea for everyone.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2185014

In a perfect world that trade would happen once we secure one of Smith/Banchero/Murray.

then we sign Mitchell Robinson

Sign Marvin Bagley

sign Braxton Key for a 2-3 years minimum salary deal

sign Jaylen Hoard for a 2-3 years minimum salary deal

We would roll with

Mitchell Robinson / Isaiah Stewart / Luka Garza (or a 2nd rounder)
Jabari Smith / Marvin Bagley / Braxton Key
Saddiq Bey / Isaiah Livers / Jaylen Hoard
Gary Trent Jr / Hamidou Diallo / Frank Jackson (or a 2nd rounder)
Cade Cunningham / Cory Joseph / Killian Hayes

That starting linup would be insane imo. We would be very good on defense, and spacing would be nice. The 2nd unit would be solid with plenty of guys pushing them for minutes.

[bstein14]

So, my new dream scenario, could possibly get us 20+ win increase, at least I think it could.

I am not getting anything out of my ass, as usual this is not even my trade idea, it was originally posted by a Utah fan, and tweaked by a Toronto fan, and it's a good trade idea for everyone.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2185014

In a perfect world that trade would happen once we secure one of Smith/Banchero/Murray.

then we sign Mitchell Robinson

Sign Marvin Bagley

sign Braxton Key for a 2-3 years minimum salary deal

sign Jaylen Hoard for a 2-3 years minimum salary deal

We would roll with

Mitchell Robinson / Isaiah Stewart / Luka Garza (or a 2nd rounder)
Jabari Smith / Marvin Bagley / Braxton Key
Saddiq Bey / Isaiah Livers / Jaylen Hoard
Gary Trent Jr / Hamidou Diallo / Frank Jackson (or a 2nd rounder)
Cade Cunningham / Cory Joseph / Killian Hayes

That starting linup would be insane imo. We would be very good on defense, and spacing would be nice. The 2nd unit would be solid with plenty of guys pushing them for minutes.

GTJ would likely fit really well next to Cade, and he's still just 23 years old. He'd be a great get for us for Grant and I'd give up an additional asset as well to get him. The downside? He's going to opt out next summer and he'll almost certainly get more than the 4 years $112 million that Grant wants. I think 4 years $120 million for GTJ is fairly likely given what we've seen from him and how young he still is.... that said 4 years at $30 million per year for GTJ might be better for us than 4 years of Grant at $28 million per year.

[edmunder_prc]

I hope any win increase isn't the goal. The goal should be how good we are in 3-5 years.

Next summer the team either goes all in with salary OR gets very smart with trading away, KO, Grant, and Stewart/Hayes.

Stewart/Bey/Hayes all will need new salaries and players like Diallo's contract will end and want to be re-signed or need to be traded too.

This year will be extremely important to figure out the team going forward and either

a) tear it down again, getting rid of all the salaries so when we re-sign guys we arent capped out

b) keep grant and re-sign him, plus sign Bey, Stewart, Hayes, Diallo to extensions - going way over the cap and locking the team in

[tmorgan]

This team plus our first this year CANNOT be the final goal. I don’t believe it is, but if Weaver thinks that, we’re in some deep ship.

[El Chivo]

GTJ streaky AF. We already have Bey filling that role (shooter who occasionally catches fire and goes ham from deep).

We need a competent ball handler and consistent shooter next to Cade.

[LaSheed]

Jesus will you guys actually watch film on Mitch Robinson? He gets destroyed in the exact pick and roll you guys want our guys to switch on. Oh Stewart was actually in the top 10% of field goal percentage scored against at the rim? But he isn't flashy for you because he's not your 7' center

[LaSheed]

Bagley was awful on the floor for us defensively. Absolutely awful but he made up for it in ways we didn't know at the time. Above the rim lobs and low post scoring. But if you guys want a guy that can hop and jump really high enjoy your Drummond 2.0.

[Manocad]

This team plus our first this year CANNOT be the final goal. I don’t believe it is, but if Weaver thinks that, we’re in some deep ship.

I agree, but I don't think this offseason should be pushing all in, making the best move you can make with what's available at every single position of need, and doing nothing/dropping back and punting after next season either.

In simple terms, next season should still be a building year, so to speak. With marked improvement and a lot more wins, but I think anyone who thinks the goal should be to open the 2022-23 season with a team that's going to make a run at a championship is going to be disappointed.

[whitehops]

Jesus will you guys actually watch film on Mitch Robinson? He gets destroyed in the exact pick and roll you guys want our guys to switch on. Oh Stewart was actually in the top 10% of field goal percentage scored against at the rim? But he isn't flashy for you because he's not your 7' center

The idea would be that we primarily play drop coverage if we got robinson, and Stewart is really good at contesting shots at the rim but doesn’t have the size to play drop coverage where he would have to defend two players at once, essentially covering the whole lane.