Moderators: Cowology, theBigLip, Snakebites, dVs33
And speaking of Daye: He didn't play until late in the third. I get that a win over Boston is exciting stuff. But man ... you're still a longshot for the playoffs. Why does the plan suddenly shift right back to "play the vets as much as possible"?
Daye needs to play 15-20 minutes a game. I will continue saying this until somebody listens.
Some horrid games: Charlie Villanueva and Rodney Stuckey were just awful.
With Villanueva, it's part of the package. Not worth getting that upset about -- he's one of the streakiest guys in the NBA. Some nights he'll be unguardable, some nights he'll kill you. He alone didn't kill Detroit, but 1-for-9 from the only post scorer isn't going to cut it.
Rodney Stuckey shot terribly -- 3-for-13 -- but at least he didn't turn it over (5 assists/1 turnover). Rip Hamilton shot great, but turned it over 7 times.
Kwame Brown gets dusted off: It was garbage time, but Brown had the best +/- on the team at +10. It would be interesting to know why he's been completely out of the rotation. His defense may have helped against Hibbert/Murphy, who were 12-for-20.
Looking ahead: Just absolutely a game the Pistons couldn't lose, and they came out with one of their worst efforts of the season. Playoff teams don't lose games like this, even in the East, where about three current "playoff" teams shouldn't be. This team is a rollercoaster. It's hard to root for them when Wallace, Jerebko, Daye, Atkins and Stuckey aren't on the floor.
What the blogs are saying:
Detroit Bad Boys: "On the flip side, losses like this can happen. The Pacers were probably due to get back over the 100 point clip after a few losses under that mark in a row. The Pistons had won four of their last five and were probably still riding high from Wednesday's game. They got caught sleep walking tonight, but if the Pistons go 4-2 in every six-game stretch for the rest of the season, they're going to make the playoffs. That's the brightest side that you can take from a game like this."
Indy Cornrows: "Indiana struggled mightly out of the gate shooting 1-8, but were a benefit from poor Pistons possessions to help the Pacers get into a rhythm and actually find themselves a double digit lead in the first quarter, pushed by the offensive tempo. The Pistons were unable to find an answer for the Pacers quick, small lineup as the Pacers jumped out to a 31-19 lead after the first."
Pistons vs. Trail Blazers
The PRE Report
Broadcast Schedule:
6:30 p.m. - Pistons In-Focus
7:00 p.m. - Pistons Live
7:30 p.m. - Watch Live on FS Detroit Plus
7:30 p.m. - Join the Chat and Listen Live
"Cash for Clunkers" Jersey Deal
Got an old Pistons jersey that you don't wear anymore? Bring it to The Palace to get $20 off a new one. More info.
The Pistons and Blazers both lost Friday night, which means at least one team is going to come up very empty this weekend if they can’t pull off a victory tonight at The Palace.
The game is shaping up to be a contest between an angry, frustrated Detroit team with something to prove against a talented but shorthanded Portland squad that has to be wondering how long its depth can hold out. The Pistons (15-27) have struggled to respond positively after losses. Wednesday’s 92-86 home win over the Celtics was just the second time this season that Detroit has limited one loss from turning into consecutive losses. Defeating the Atlantic Division-leading Celtics was Detroit’s fourth win in five games – yet they came up flat against the lowly Pacers, and are now just ½ game away from sharing the Central Division cellar with Indiana. “It seems like we can get excited and play the Boston Celtics but just seems that we couldn’t get [the excitement] to play the Indiana Pacers,” said Charlie Villanueva, who made only one of nine shots, finishing with three points and five rebounds in 20 minutes.
After the first minute of the second half, the Pistons trailed by at least 14 points the rest of the game – and by as many as 23 points – before eventually bowing out, 105-93. “It was disappointing,” said Pistons coach John Kuester. “We had played very hard four out of the last five games, and this was a disappointing effort.” There was nothing wrong with Portland’s effort Friday night. The Blazers (26-18), who found out earlier in the day they would be without leading scorer Brandon Roy for at least a week with a right hamstring injury, fought valiantly in Boston, forcing the Celtics to overtime where they fell 98-95. Andre Miller led Portland in scoring for the third straight game with 23 points, eight rebounds and eight assists. Second-year guard Jerryd Bayless, who made his fourth start of the season, replaced Roy. But Bayless also went down last night with a sprained left ankle and did not return. If Bayless is sidelined, Portland’s last true shooting guard is third-year Spaniard Rudy Fernandez, who had six points on 2-of-11 shooting at Boston. Injuries are nothing new for Portland, which has had about as much bad luck as the Pistons. Blazers coach Nate McMillan is down to his third string at some positions – making Portland’s 26-18 record even more impressive.
Roy is the third starter from last year’s playoff team that won’t be available Saturday, joining center Greg Oden, who is out for the season, and small forward Nicolas Batum, who was just cleared to practice again Thursday. Batum has missed the entire season with a shoulder injury. Portland has lost the backups for Batum and Oden, too. Small forward Travis Outlaw has been out since November and center Joel Przybilla is also done for the year. The third-stringers have been pretty solid, though. Two weeks away from his 37th birthday, center Juwan Howard grabbed a game-high 12 rebounds in 41 minutes at Boston, while small forward Martell Webster had 19 points and a team-high plus-12 rating. It begs the question if the absence of Roy – an All-Star guard averaging 23.1 points, 5.0 assists and 4.6 rebounds – will be the injury that Portland finally can’t overcome. It doesn’t help their cause that Saturday will be the final game of a grueling four-game East Coast road trip. “It’s going to be important for us to really jump on this team, obviously they’ve been on a long road trip, and we don’t want to let them get off to a good start,” said Tayshaun Prince. “Hopefully we can get off to a great start tomorrow and put together a 48-minute game.” The Blazers still have power forward LaMarcus Aldridge, who scored 27 points in Portland’s 96-85 victory at The Palace last season, their first in four years.
Key Matchup
Prince
10
8.7
4.0
2.3
.402 Games
PPG
RPG
APG
FG% 44
10.6
4.0
0.7
.402
Webster
While Tayshaun Prince was extending the longest active streak for consecutive starts in 2008-09, Blazers forward Martell Webster sat out the entire season with a foot injury.
This season, each small forward is getting a glimpse of how the other one lived. Webster, a fifth-year forward, has taken advantage of injuries to Nicolas Batum and Travis Outlaw to reestablish his place in the starting lineup, a position he held two seasons ago. He has played in all 43 games for the Blazers, and he’s getting better as the season goes on. Webster is having a breakthrough January, averaging 17.1 points and 5.6 rebounds in 10 games so far. He’s shooting 44.8 percent from the field and 40.0 percent from 3-point range. The 6-foot-7 forward has averaged three treys per game in January.
Prince, meanwhile, is taking strides to get back to that level. He had seven points, six rebounds, three assists and one steal in 24 minutes last night against Indiana. “Not bad, not bad at all,” Prince said of his left knee, which had kept him sidelined since Jan. 9. “Obviously just trying to catch my wind, get in game shape, but for the most part it’s OK.” Prince had not missed a game in seven seasons before Nov. 3, yet Friday marked just his ninth appearance in 2009-10. Pistons coach John Kuester said he would closely monitor Prince’s minutes to safeguard him from any setbacks. “I had a good span in the second quarter where I played a lot of minutes and got my wind going real good and things felt OK,” Prince said. “But for the most part I think [endurance] will build as the games keep coming.” What was of more interest to reporters happened in the third quarter, when Prince seemingly directed an outburst at Kuester, interrupting a timeout huddle. Prince refused to broach the topic after the game.
Portland Trail Blazers (26-18) at Detroit Pistons (15-27), 7:30 p.m.
The banged-up Portland Trail Blazers get back to work Saturday night when they conclude a four-game road trip in Auburn Hills against the Detroit Pistons. The Blazers have resembled a MASH unit all year, losing centers Greg Oden and Joel Przybilla for the season due to knee injuries and forwards Travis Outlaw (foot) and Nicolas Batum (shoulder) for significant periods. All-Star guard Brandon Roy was the latest to join the injury list with a right hamstring problem and now his replacement, Jerryd Bayless, went down with a sprained ankle in a tough loss to Boston on Friday night. Portland fell to 1-2 on its trek when Ray Allen, who made just 3-for-14 from the field, hit the go-ahead three-pointer in overtime, as the Celtics edged the Blazers, 98-95. Andre Miller ended with a game-high 28 points to go with eight assists and eight rebounds for the Trail Blazers, who had won three of four coming in. Martell Webster and LaMarcus Aldridge each netted 19 points in defeat. "They made their shots and we didn't down the stretch," Aldridge said. "Both teams had opportunities to make shots and win the game and they made them and we didn't.
Roy is expected to remain on the sidelines until at least next Thursday when he will be re-evaluated. Bayless is day-to-day. The Pistons, meanwhile, fell to 1-1 on six-game homestand Friday night when Danny Granger scored a team-high 25 points and Brandon Rush made 5-of-8 from three-point range and finished with 19 points, as the Indiana Pacers claimed a 105-93 win over Detroit in a Central Division matchup. Richard Hamilton led all scorers with 27 points and Jonas Jerebko finished with 14 points and seven rebounds for Detroit, which was coming off an impressive 92-86 win over Boston on Wednesday and had won four of five coming into the contest, following an ugly 13-game losing streak.
Tayshaun Prince returned to the lineup after missing the previous six games with a knee injury and finished with just seven points on 3-of-12 shooting. Prince was also seen arguing with first-year head coach John Kuester during a fourth-quarter timeout. "It was disappointing," Kuester said. "We had played hard four out of the last five games." The Blazers have won three straight in the series, including a 87-81 win in Portland earlier this season.
Rasheed Who? With One Look, Wallace Is Replaced
Prior to the Detroit Pistons game against the Boston Celtics this week, fans were noticeably conflicted. Obviously, they had a reason for this given who was about to hit town. Rasheed Wallace was making his debut in an opposing jersey, and the one emotion fans were not feeling was apathy. Love him, hate him, or reduced to a heart attack-riddled pulp on the floor because of him, everyone has an opinion about the one-time Pistons star. In many cases, all three responses have been known to occur simultaneously from some fans. Let's face it, Wallace had quite the career in Detroit. First, he was the missing piece that turned a very good Pistons team into a great one. Wallace's low-post ability on offense, his intelligence on defense, and his swagger pushed the Pistons over the top and helped them defeat the Los Angeles Lakers in one of the biggest upsets in the history of the NBA Finals. However, that was the high water mark for a team that likely would have done things differently had they been given a mulligan. Following the season, team president Joe Dumars had a choice to make—re-sign either Wallace or youngster Mehmet Okur. Both had similar games, but Okur had yet to reach the level of Wallace. Most people agreed that the smart move was to re-sign Wallace instead of Okur. Obviously hindsight is 20/20, but let's take a look at what happened next. First off, Wallace showed up for training camp out of shape, and had what many referred to as a lackadaisical approach to the game. The team seemed to feed off of that, and became transformed from a scrappy group of overachievers to a laurel-resting bunch of underachievers.
The lowlight of that season was when Wallace foolishly left Robert Horry wide open for a three in the Finals against the San Antonio Spurs in a series that the Pistons ultimately lost. Over the next few seasons, the Pistons continued to play well, however they never were able to make it back to the Finals. Of course, this is not all Wallace's fault: It is impossible to put a statistical number on the importance that Wallace had to this team, especially on the defensive side of the ball. However, since that fateful move in which Dumars chose a proven player over a potentially good one, Wallace has gone on to average 13 points and seven rebounds per game. Today, he is a shell of the former player he was and is looking like this might be his final year in the game. Okur, on the other hand, has gone on to average 15.7 points and nearly eight rebounds per game. Most importantly, he is only 30 years old—the same age Wallace was when he began his first season on his then new contract with the Pistons.Alright, I know what you are thinking, what does this have to do with Charlie Villanueva. The fact is that Dumars is trying to rectify his mistake with Wallace by bringing in Villanueva. Think about it, both are 6'11" and 240ish (although, if you believe Wallace is anything less than 270 these days I have some nice property 30 miles west of Grand Haven, Michigan available for you to purchase) and play a similar game. Villanueva is a nightmare for opposing teams due to his offensive range and length, much like Wallace was in his prime. Both are capable of dominating in the post, and both have the tendency to spend too much time on the perimeter (a trait that Villanueva will have to kick if he is going to endear himself to fans). There are clearly three distinct differences between these two. One, Villanueva, at least initially, does not show the same flair for histrionics as his predecessor. Villanueva rarely picks up technical fouls while Wallace...well, you know that story.
Two, Wallace, for all of his faults, is generally considered a basketball genius on the court. Obviously his antics can take away from this, but offensively few know the game quite like him. Lastly, Villanueva is far from the defender that Wallace was in his days with Detroit. Wallace was always in the right position, and his leadership was always most obvious on that end of the court. When he was engaged, you could always hear Wallace directing his teammates on where to go and what to expect. For this last point, Dumars made a brilliant move; he brought back Ben Wallace.Obviously there are other reasons why he brought back the aging center. However, it would be naive to think that Wallace was signed without a primary focus being Mr. Villanueva's development. Ben Wallace has always been a lead-by-example kind of guy, and so far it appears that he is having an effect on Charlie. While his rebounding numbers are down, that likely can be attributed more to his continued injuries than his effectiveness. The Villanueva that has been seen this year has been a much more engaged player on defense, from his positioning on the court to his knack for getting clutch blocks. Of course he is still far from a finished product, but he has definitely shown potential on this end of the court as well as a willingness to learn. Getting back to the game between the Pistons and the Celtics, I think we will look back on this contest and say that it was the moment that Villanueva officially took the Rasheed Wallace torch and ran with it. In a very tight game, Villanueva took Wallace to school, knocking down a pair of clutch three-pointers that sealed a Pistons upset of the 2008 NBA champions. But it was one play in particular that etched this moment in my mind. During the fourth quarter, Villanueva spun around an over-aggressive Wallace and darted towards the hoop. Rodney Stuckey saw this move, and flawlessly fed the power forward an alley-oop pass that Villanueva righteously slammed in the face of the long time Piston Wallace.While everyone saw this play, not everyone saw what came next. An exuberant Villanueva looked directly into the eyes of Wallace as he began his victorious trot towards the other end of the court. The message was clear. Head back to Boston, Mr. Wallace; you have been replaced here in Detroit. While the signing of Villanueva can not erase the mistake of failing to keep Okur, all signs point to him having a bright future in Pistons red, white and blue.
Portland Trail Blazers (26-18) at Detroit Pistons (15-27), 7:30 p.m.
The banged-up Portland Trail Blazers get back to work Saturday night when they conclude a four-game road trip in Auburn Hills against the Detroit Pistons. The Blazers have resembled a MASH unit all year, losing centers Greg Oden and Joel Przybilla for the season due to knee injuries and forwards Travis Outlaw (foot) and Nicolas Batum (shoulder) for significant periods. All-Star guard Brandon Roy was the latest to join the injury list with a right hamstring problem and now his replacement, Jerryd Bayless, went down with a sprained ankle in a tough loss to Boston on Friday night. Portland fell to 1-2 on its trek when Ray Allen, who made just 3-for-14 from the field, hit the go-ahead three-pointer in overtime, as the Celtics edged the Blazers, 98-95. Andre Miller ended with a game-high 28 points to go with eight assists and eight rebounds for the Trail Blazers, who had won three of four coming in. Martell Webster and LaMarcus Aldridge each netted 19 points in defeat. "They made their shots and we didn't down the stretch," Aldridge said. "Both teams had opportunities to make shots and win the game and they made them and we didn't."
Roy is expected to remain on the sidelines until at least next Thursday when he will be re-evaluated. Bayless is day-to-day. The Pistons, meanwhile, fell to 1-1 on six-game homestand Friday night when Danny Granger scored a team-high 25 points and Brandon Rush made 5-of-8 from three-point range and finished with 19 points, as the Indiana Pacers claimed a 105-93 win over Detroit in a Central Division matchup. Richard Hamilton led all scorers with 27 points and Jonas Jerebko finished with 14 points and seven rebounds for Detroit, which was coming off an impressive 92-86 win over Boston on Wednesday and had won four of five coming into the contest, following an ugly 13-game losing streak.
Tayshaun Prince returned to the lineup after missing the previous six games with a knee injury and finished with just seven points on 3-of-12 shooting. Prince was also seen arguing with first-year head coach John Kuester during a fourth-quarter timeout. "It was disappointing," Kuester said. "We had played hard four out of the last five games." The Blazers have won three straight in the series, including a 87-81 win in Portland earlier this season.
Game Review: Does Tayshaun Prince dislike John Kuester?
Things got ugly when Pistons coach John Kuester removed the Pistons’ regulars late in the fourth quarter of last night’s 105-93 loss to the lowly Pacers. From Vince Ellis of the Detroit Free Press:
And when Prince came to the bench, that’s when he yelled at Kuester, who gave it back momentarily before going back to the huddle to give instructions to the backups. When asked after the game what transpired, Prince said: “Nah, don’t ask me that question, because if I speak on it y’all ain’t going to do nothing but change my words up so I ain’t even going to answer that.” When a reporter tried to ask a follow-up, Prince snapped: “Did you just hear what I said?” When another reporter asked if he and Kuester would get past the disagreement, Prince said: “Of course.” And he walked away. As for Kuester, he spoke for less than a minute and never took a question about Prince and left quickly.
In itself, this isn’t necessarily a big deal. Players and coaches get caught in the heat of the moment all the time. It’s not necessarily a sign of a bigger problem. But last night’s incident reminded me of something else Prince said.
A strange answer
Before the season, Prince talked to the media about the challenge of playing for his third coach in three years. Then a follow-up question – For Kuester to stick here, what advice would you give him? – caused him to take a snippy tone. “What advice for me to give him to stick here?” Prince said. “I mean, that’s not – my advice doesn’t matter. I don’t make the decision for John Kuester to be the coach or for John Kuester, for his success to be here, that’s not a decision I have to make.”
Prince’s response struck me as odd at the time. But I didn’t report it because I had no idea what his answer meant, and I still don’t
Did he just think it was a dumb question?
Wary of the Piston players’ reputation for running off coaches, did Prince not want to be seen as meddling?
This was the near the end of his interview, so did he just grow tired of answering questions?
Did Prince have a problem with Kuester and not want to offer any advice to an adversary?
All four possibilities, and more, certainly crossed my mind. It was just strange. Prince had been pretty mellow during the interview session. Why did this question change his mood?
The Prince-Kuester relationship
Kuester has repeatedly called Prince one of the team’s leaders. It’s not as easy to find Prince quotes about Kuester. I think one reason is that, with all the time he’s missed due to injury, Prince just hasn’t talked with the media often. And maybe there are dozens of instances of Prince praising Kuester that haven’t been reported.
Here’s the only general Prince quote about Kuester I could verify. It’s from a preseason interview with Keith Langlois of Pistons.com:
KL: I know you have some history with John Kuester as an assistant coach here when you won it in 2004. What’s your sense of what type of coach he’s going to be?
TP: He was here during the Larry Brown era and the way Larry did things, the assistant coaches around him did things in a similar fashion. I would kind of expect him to be similar in that kind of situation. But he’s also been under different guys. With Mike Brown last year, he gave him the opportunity to carry more of the load, especially offensively. I think he’ll incorporate a lot of different things he’s done with all the different coaches he’s been with, he’ll bring that to this team.
Translation: Kuester has been an assistant coach. He will be a head coach this year. He will coach with the knowledge that he knows. Langlois practically begged Prince to praise Kuester, and the small forward didn’t bite. He didn’t say anything negative, but a question like that usually garners more of a positive response. The search for a second quote from Prince on Kuester gets mysterious. NewsBank, a newspaper database, turns up an August article by Terry Foster of The Detroit News. It ends with this quote:"John is a heck of a coach and he will have his defensive system," Prince told pistons.com. "But he is going to get us up and down the court." "I know every year we talk about getting up and down and making quicker passes. … I think the guys we have offensively can do that." OK, that seems pretty positive. So, I found a linkable version of that story. But this version ends six paragraphs before the NewsBank story. Not a huge deal. There must’ve been a mix up when it was posted online. (I’m pretty sure the NewsBank articles are based on what runs in print.)
Video in the link above^.Still, I want to find the quote on Pistons.com to verify it and see the context. This video is the closest thing I could find: If you listen to Prince at the end, he says similar things about the Pistons running more. But the quote’s actual words don’t match the Foster article. What Foster wrote is what you might get if you were transcribing the video in the middle of a concert. Most relevant, Prince never says anything like, “John is a heck of a coach.”
Boiling over
Maybe this has nothing to do with Kuester at all.
This certainly can’t be an easy time for Prince.
He’s missed most of the season with injuries, which must be especially bothersome for a guy who had played in 496 straight games.
The Pistons just drafted three players who share his position.
One of those rookies, Jonas Jerebko, has played well enough that some want to see Prince come off the bench now.
Add an ugly loss to a bad team at home, and well, why should he be in a good mood? Maybe Prince just lost his cool momentarily. After all, he said he and Kuester would definitely get past this. At this point, evidence of a Kuester-Prince feud is all circumstantial. But it’s more solid than the evidence that they get along.
Roller coaster descends
Pacers (105) Pistons (93)
It wasn’t that hard to pick out which team was coming off a big gratifying win and which team was looking to end a 3-game slide. The game marked only the fifth road win in twenty-three tries for the Pacers. The Pistons showed some life in the second quarter after getting down by 17, but pretty much everything before and after that was just uninspired play. The game was essentially over at the start of the third quarter when Indiana scored the first eleven points about as quick and effortlessly as eleven points can be scored in the NBA. “Boy, that escalated quickly. I mean, that really got out of hand fast” ~ R. Burgundy
Richard Hamilton was the only bright spot. Rip scored a game high 27 points on 53% shooting while the Pistons as a whole shot just 41% from the field. It would appear that Tayshaun Prince (7 pts on 3/12 shooting, 6 rbs) came back at least one game too soon. Coach Kue pulled Tay along with the rest of the starters in the fourth when it was clear that this game was a lost cause and apparently Prince took exception as he and Kuester got into a shouting match. It’s not clear exactly what the disagreement stemmed from and Tayshaun was not willing to elaborate after the game: When asked after the game what transpired, Prince said: “Nah, don’t ask me that question, because if I speak on it y’all ain’t going to do nothing but change my words up so I ain’t even going to answer that.” When a reporter tried to ask a follow-up, Prince snapped: “Did you just hear what I said?” - Freep. What raises an eyebrow about this is that we’re talking about Tayshaun Prince here. Tay is usually mild mannered to the point of comatose. Danny Granger took exception to being D’ed up by Joans Jerebko and scowled his way to 25 points, with the majority coming at the free throw line where he went 14-for-14.
GAME NOTES: This was the first time the Pistons and Pacers played with both teams being at least 10 games under .500 since 1979 … Pistons go 1-9 from 3 … Luther Head & Hamilton picked up techs for trash-talking in the 3rd qtr … Rodney Stuckey (10 pts on 3/13 shooting) recorded a -25 +/- stat … Charlie V went 1/9 with a -22 stat in 20 minutes … Kwame Brown played for hte first time in 5 games … Troy Murphy: 16 pts, 11 rbs … Brandon Rush had a season-high 19 points, he went 5/8 from three … 5 Pacers had 14 or more points … This was only the 10th game Prince appeared in this season … Attendence: 15,388 … The Pistons have the Blazers at the Palace tonight at 7:30 …
MLive: About Last Night: Because someone has to write about it, I guess: Tayshaun Prince's return involves shoutin... http://bit.ly/5PaZIA
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JAMESON CURRY RETURNS
The Los Angeles Clippers signed former Bulls guard JamesOn Curry to a 10-day contract on Friday. Curry was a second-round pick of the Bulls in 2007 out of Oklahoma State, but he never suited up for a game before being released the following summer.
Curry had been playing for the Springfield (Mass.) Armor in the D-League, averaging 16.1 points and 7.5 assists.
Sebastian Telfair out 4-6 weeks
Los Angeles Clippers guard Sebastian Telfair suffered a right groin strain and torn right adductor longus tendon in the Clippers victory over Chicago on Jan. 20. The diagnosis was confirmed when Telfair was examined by a specialist, Dr. Craig Smith, in Los Angeles earlier today.
Telfair is expected to miss a minimum of four to six weeks.
In 39 games played this season, Telfair has averaged 4.3 points and 2.9 assists in 14.3 minutes per game.