The Trade Thread - v2

LukasBMW · Post #1141 » by **LukasBMW** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:28 pm

Yeah I figured as much. It's safe to say Drummond and your draft pick are your top assets and the best chance you guys have to become a playoff team again.

It's a shame you guys didn't come to an agreement with Monroe or sign and trade him and at least get something for him.

I think a contending team in need of a PG could have interest in Jennings, but the league is so rich with talented PG's that most of the contending teams are already set at that spot and Jennings wouldn't want to be a backup.

Josh Smith looks done. At the end of last year if you had called up NY and offered an Amare for Josh Smith swap, NYK might have listened. NY would think Josh Smith can become their powerforward next to Melo. You guys take Amare as a salary dump. But now with Smith playing so horrible and Amare playing well (a contract year for him...funny how that works), I think NY rides it out and maintains its cap room to go after new talent next year.

Phoenix would probably have interest in Monroe if he played better defense.

ImHeisenberg · Post #1142 » by **ImHeisenberg** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:40 pm

DetroitSho wrote:I only ask because I'm thinking it would've taken at least 12 million for Atlanta to not match. I think it's easy to look and see we're paying Jennings 8 million and Teague is getting 8 million and say we should've went after him. Not saying you're saying that. But with your own words of what you would pay, I can't say we would've gotten him.

$12 certainly would have pried Teague away from Atlanta. Context is the name of the game. Detroit would look completely different if they'd have theoretically signed Teague. We wouldn't have signed Smith (not enough cap space), and we would have kept Knight at the 2, or traded him to fill a different hole on the wing.

Teague may have played up to the contract. Who knows?

DetroitSho wrote:Did the rules change and you can combine TPE with players in trades now?

You can include a player with the TPE? I wasn't aware. The more you know.

jakebernat · Post #1143 » by **jakebernat** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:13 am

Miles Plumlee and PJ Tucker for Monroe and Singler.

The contracts match up almost perfectly. With the expected major increase in the salary cap, Phoenix will have more than enough cap space to resign Monroe, regardless of bird rights. They need an big who can contribute right now since Len isn't ready yet. Greg would be able to give them a legitimate low-post scoring threat to step in seamlessly with their roster and even play alongside Len for extended periods. There isn't much risk here for the Suns, who are in the midst of a playoff run.

We would be able upgrade the SF position enough to make us watchable, but not completely ruin the tank. Also, we land a quality backup center on a rookie contract who has proven to be a productive player. While landing a decent return for a departing Monroe, we prove the entire existence that it is possible to net a quality return for a 5th year player that signed the qualifying offer.

russkopp · Post #1144 » by **russkopp** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:26 pm

People keep ignoring the fact that MONROE WONT LET US TRADE HIM. The only way I'd see it happening is if it was to a championship caliber team MAYBE. He's all about $$$ now.

jakebernat · Post #1145 » by **jakebernat** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:50 pm

russkopp wrote:People keep ignoring the fact that MONROE WONT LET US TRADE HIM. The only way I'd see it happening is if it was to a championship caliber team MAYBE. He's all about $$$ now.

huh? he's going to get paid either way, i don't see why he would refuse to waive his no-trade clause, especially for a good team like the suns.

Post #1146 » by **theBigLip** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:37 pm

jakebernat wrote:
russkopp wrote:People keep ignoring the fact that MONROE WONT LET US TRADE HIM. The only way I'd see it happening is if it was to a championship caliber team MAYBE. He's all about $$$ now.

huh? he's going to get paid either way, i don't see why he would refuse to waive his no-trade clause, especially for a good team like the suns.

Because he waives his Bird rights if he accepts a trade. So the team that he is traded too has to have cap room to sign him to that big contract. If they are going to be over the cap next year, they will not be able to keep him. So Monroe is better off waiting for a sign and trade this summer, or just go to one of the teams that will have cap space next year.

jakebernat · Post #1147 » by **jakebernat** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:09 pm

theBigLip wrote:Because he waives his Bird rights if he accepts a trade. So the team that he is traded too has to have cap room to sign him to that big contract. If they are going to be over the cap next year, they will not be able to keep him. So Monroe is better off waiting for a sign and trade this summer, or just go to one of the teams that will have cap space next year.

jakebernat wrote:Miles Plumlee and PJ Tucker for Monroe and Singler.

The contracts match up almost perfectly. With the expected major increase in the salary cap, Phoenix will have more than enough cap space to resign Monroe, regardless of bird rights.

as you can see, i'm well-aware of this. unlike most posters on here, i actually do a bit of research before i post.

unless the pistons plan on offering monroe a max contract, which is extremely unlikely, then the suns will be able to offer him as much money as anyone else.

the writing's on the wall. monroe is gone, and it's time to move on. holding onto him past the deadline in hopes of finding a suitable partner for a potential sign-and-trade would be beyond risky. by that point, monroe, an UFA, would be free to do whatever HE wants, and seeing as how he's already one foot out the door, it'd be unwise to wait until that point.

Ghost · Post #1148 » by **Ghost** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:06 pm

Do you think the Suns would really want to do that? It's an interesting suggestion, Jake!

MrBigShot · Post #1149 » by **MrBigShot** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:11 pm

Even so, it would be better for him to just hold on to his bird rights. He'd have more potential destinations by having both S&T and signing outright with a team available rather than being just being able to sign with teams that have enough cap space to sign him.

Deciding whether or not we should hold onto him past the deadline wont matter if he wont waive his no trade clause.

Ghost · Post #1150 » by **Ghost** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:36 pm

MrBigShot wrote:Even so, it would be better for him to just hold on to his bird rights. He'd have more potential destinations by having both S&T and signing outright with a team available rather than being just being able to sign with teams that have enough cap space to sign him.

Deciding whether or not we should hold onto him past the deadline wont matter if he wont waive his no trade clause.

I may look into how many more real destinations he would have.. since afterall we wouldn't sign and trade him for some trash because it doesn't make sense for us. Rather just have the cap room.

DetroitSho · Post #1151 » by **DetroitSho** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:09 pm

ImHeisenberg wrote:
DetroitSho wrote:I only ask because I'm thinking it would've taken at least 12 million for Atlanta to not match. I think it's easy to look and see we're paying Jennings 8 million and Teague is getting 8 million and say we should've went after him. Not saying you're saying that. But with your own words of what you would pay, I can't say we would've gotten him.

$12 certainly would have pried Teague away from Atlanta. Context is the name of the game. Detroit would look completely different if they'd have theoretically signed Teague. We wouldn't have signed Smith (not enough cap space), and we would have kept Knight at the 2, or traded him to fill a different hole on the wing.

Teague may have played up to the contract. Who knows?

DetroitSho wrote:Did the rules change and you can combine TPE with players in trades now?

You can include a player with the TPE? I wasn't aware. The more you know.

Well that's what's confusing. You're saying we should've went after Teague but admitted to not being interested in paying the (likely) amount it would've taken to get him.

jakebernat · Post #1152 » by **jakebernat** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:51 pm

MrBigShot wrote:Even so, it would be better for him to just hold on to his bird rights. He'd have more potential destinations by having both S&T and signing outright with a team available rather than being just being able to sign with teams that have enough cap space to sign him.

Deciding whether or not we should hold onto him past the deadline wont matter if he wont waive his no trade clause.

Where do people keep getting this notion that Monroe wouldn't waive his no-trade clause? He obviously wants to play for a winner and shows little to no ethusiasm on the court for us, so why wouldn't he be open to finishing the year on a team in the playoff hunt?

jakebernat · Post #1153 » by **jakebernat** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:54 pm

Ghost wrote:Do you think the Suns would really want to do that? It's an interesting suggestion, Jake!

I really think they would. They desperately need an interior presence to compliment their perimeter attack. Monroe would function as the offensive cog that many of us envisioned he would be here, only in Phoenix, he'd be able to play his natural center position. It makes perfect sense to me, but I'm not the one making front office phone calls lol.

MrBigShot · Post #1154 » by **MrBigShot** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:05 am

jakebernat wrote:
MrBigShot wrote:Even so, it would be better for him to just hold on to his bird rights. He'd have more potential destinations by having both S&T and signing outright with a team available rather than being just being able to sign with teams that have enough cap space to sign him.

Deciding whether or not we should hold onto him past the deadline wont matter if he wont waive his no trade clause.

Where do people keep getting this notion that Monroe wouldn't waive his no-trade clause? He obviously wants to play for a winner and shows little to no ethusiasm on the court for us, so why wouldn't he be open to finishing the year on a team in the playoff hunt?

Not saying that he isn't willing to, I merely said that IF he doesn't, that it wont matter whether or not management wants to "part ways" and trade him before the deadline. We haven't heard anything from credible source that that he is/isn't willing to waive his no trade clause, so all of this is speculation. Nobody can say for sure whether or not he'd be willing to waive it.

But options wise, again, having both S&T available and signing outright is better than just have one of those options. If I was in his position I'd just wait out the rest of the year and then decide where I'd like to head to afterwards, unless I had the option to play for a team with a real chance to win a championship.

mercury · Post #1155 » by **mercury** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:13 am

jakebernat wrote:
MrBigShot wrote:Even so, it would be better for him to just hold on to his bird rights. He'd have more potential destinations by having both S&T and signing outright with a team available rather than being just being able to sign with teams that have enough cap space to sign him.

Deciding whether or not we should hold onto him past the deadline wont matter if he wont waive his no trade clause.

Where do people keep getting this notion that Monroe wouldn't waive his no-trade clause? He obviously wants to play for a winner and shows little to no ethusiasm on the court for us, so why wouldn't he be open to finishing the year on a team in the playoff hunt?

Quick answer... would you be willing to give up several million to join a team that may not sign you to a long term deal?

Pharaoh · Post #1156 » by **Pharaoh** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:39 am

For the sake of a good argument:

Assuming Monroe accepted a trade to Phoenix...and assuming they did have the cap space to sign him in the off-season could they do a S&T with him or is that illegal under the CBA?

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ImHeisenberg · Post #1157 » by **ImHeisenberg** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 2:09 pm

DetroitSho wrote:Well that's what's confusing. You're saying we should've went after Teague but admitted to not being interested in paying the (likely) amount it would've taken to get him.

We should have gone after Teague, but I think $12 million at that time would have looked like a huge overpay.

DetroitSho · Post #1158 » by **DetroitSho** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 2:18 pm

ImHeisenberg wrote:
DetroitSho wrote:Well that's what's confusing. You're saying we should've went after Teague but admitted to not being interested in paying the (likely) amount it would've taken to get him.

We should have gone after Teague, but I think $12 million at that time would have looked like a huge overpay.

So which one is it? I'm still unclear on where you stand.

ImHeisenberg · Post #1159 » by **ImHeisenberg** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:57 pm

DetroitSho wrote:
ImHeisenberg wrote:
DetroitSho wrote:Well that's what's confusing. You're saying we should've went after Teague but admitted to not being interested in paying the (likely) amount it would've taken to get him.

We should have gone after Teague, but I think $12 million at that time would have looked like a huge overpay.

So which one is it? I'm still unclear on where you stand.

I think you're just a contrarian for the sake of being one.

You're having difficulty understanding the context of time.

rmfc · Post #1160 » by **rmfc** » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:08 pm

Where is the $12M number for Teague coming from (sounds made up..per the usual)? Did anyone from the Hawks front office leak that information?

Teague would have been a good addition(&most Pistons fans wanted him at the time as well. ...certainly over Jennings) but who really would have paid $12M for him?