Poll: Your feelings on the Blake Griffin Trade

[Kntrl]

We sucked with Tobias and were going nowhere.I get why they made the trade. Tobias didnt really make us any better. I dont care about salaries as much as you guys do. Free Agents are not coming here anyways. I just want the draft pick Back. I thought we were gonna be playoff bound. SVG might be the biggest problem here.

[Crymson]

We sucked with Tobias and were going nowhere.I get why they made the trade. Tobias didnt really make us any better. I dont care about salaries as much as you guys do. Free Agents are not coming here anyways. I just want the draft pick Back. I thought we were gonna be playoff bound. SVG might be the biggest problem here.

We sucked with an awful coach who was, for example, running .7 PPP Bradley handoffs instead of 1.2 PPP Drummond/Harris PnRs. With Jackson and without Bradley, the Pistons were 4-1. Without Jackson and with Bradley, the Pistons still lost half of their games by six or less points. This, despite laboring under a coach who may, to an unaware observer, have seemed actually intent on burying his team.

The Jackson-Drummond-Harris trio was very effective, and it didn't eat $70 million of the cap. The three of them occupied their own areas. They didn't overlap. They synergized well. None of that is true of the much more expensive trio the Pistons now have. They all require a very specific fit in order to be effective. Zero of the three have it.

Furthermore, "This isn't working" doesn't mean "Make a senseless, franchise-changing trade that produces a broken team and robs the organization of any flexibility." This trade was totally senseless, and the team immediately landed in the same boat it was in prior to the trade: "We need Jackson back." Only now it's desperately short on shooting, has dreadful talent allocation, and has no way to fix its problems for the next two seasons.

This trade was made at the instigation of a deluded owner, who thought that adding an ostensible star would solely of its own accord sell tickets and win games. It made no actual, true, real basketball sense of any kind.

[Kntrl]

i cant argue with any of that.

[Canadafan]

Rereading the first five pages of this thread was a cringeworthy experience. The supporters of the trade were full of rah-rah, wishful-thinking sentiment that totally violated basketball sense, and fully intent on drinking the proverbial Kool-Aid from each other and from any analyst who agreed with them---and equally so on simply dismissing anyone who disagreed. Not coincidentally, those people are all nowhere to be found on this forum lately.

This isn't an "I told you so situation"; it's that the negative ramifications of the trade were so f***ing obvious from day one, yet so many fans either didn't understand them, didn't want to hear them, or refused to accept them. Instead we were subjected to an impassioned avalanche of basketball stupidity. It was a super disappointing time to be posting here or on any of the other Pistons forums, where the exact same thing happened.

It hasn’t just stopped there though, there’s still around 5 posters that refuse to admit that the Blake trade was a cyanide pill in disguise and continue to make excuses like “with a healthy Reggie”, “if Blake can continue shooting 40% from 3”, “with at least one training camp together under their belt”, “if we had a better wing” and the list goes on. It’s this same stupidity that can be seen in the thread regarding the use of our 1st round pick should we win the lottery where people are trying to find a way to justify the Griffins trade STILL. It’s actually soured my participation here as I feel the stupidity and a total lack of common sense has reached breaking point where logical and rational discussion is derailed due to blind homerism and ignorance.

I think out of all the moves this franchise has made in the last ten years the Blake trade is easily the worst.


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No, what's stupid is constantly whining about the situation. The same 4 or 5 posters that infect every thread on here with the same exact negative posts and the "I told you so" attitude. Its fine, I get it. People are angry.
What all of us "idiots" are saying is that like it or not we're kinda stuck with Blake. I'm ok with it, you're obviously not. So we're not going to be able to trade him for a few years. So we try and make the best of the situation for a few years until we can trade him. Then we blow it up like you want.
If you want, leave us your info and we can keep you posted when you can come back and cheer for your team again

[Canadafan]

We sucked with Tobias and were going nowhere.I get why they made the trade. Tobias didnt really make us any better. I dont care about salaries as much as you guys do. Free Agents are not coming here anyways. I just want the draft pick Back. I thought we were gonna be playoff bound. SVG might be the biggest problem here.

We sucked with an awful coach who was, for example, running .7 PPP Bradley handoffs instead of 1.2 PPP Drummond/Harris PnRs. With Jackson and without Bradley, the Pistons were 4-1. Without Jackson and with Bradley, the Pistons still lost half of their games by six or less points. This, despite laboring under a coach who may, to an unaware observer, have seemed actually intent on burying his team.

The Jackson-Drummond-Harris trio was very effective, and it didn't eat $70 million of the cap. The three of them occupied their own areas. They didn't overlap. They synergized well. None of that is true of the much more expensive trio the Pistons now have. They all require a very specific fit in order to be effective. Zero of the three have it.

Furthermore, "This isn't working" doesn't mean "Make a senseless, franchise-changing trade that produces a broken team and robs the organization of any flexibility." This trade was totally senseless, and the team immediately landed in the same boat it was in prior to the trade: "We need Jackson back." Only now it's desperately short on shooting, has dreadful talent allocation, and has no way to fix its problems for the next two seasons.

This trade was made at the instigation of a deluded owner, who thought that adding an ostensible star would solely of its own accord sell tickets and win games. It made no actual, true, real basketball sense of any kind.

We have the MLE. We have SJ Ellenson and even the golden child Luke to use to get us a starting SF. Times aren't so rough.

[Crymson]

No, what's stupid is constantly whining about the situation.

No, what's really stupid is referring to criticism of the trade on a discussion board as "whining" or "negativity," as if this should be a place only for a certain type of opinions, criticisms, or discussion of the organization, or it's somehow inherently bad or wrong here.

Sure, some posts take criticisms to an unreasonable extreme. So do some posts complimenting the team. See the first five pages of this thread for details. I'm guessing you weren't speaking up against that anywhere, because you apparently consider wholesale, bandwagon hype to be totally acceptable even when it's based on zero logic and doesn't brook any disagreement from other posters.

[Crymson]

We have the MLE. We have SJ Ellenson and even the golden child Luke to use to get us a starting SF. Times aren't so rough.

We're currently about $9 million short of the projected Apron. If we use more than the taxpayer MLE (around $5.5 million), we'll become hard-capped at the Apron. That'll mean we've got a tiny amount of money with which to re-sign other players. We'd be forced to make do with minimum deals for them instead.

We've got zero flexibility. Johnson has thus far been a disappointment, and he has only one season left on his deal. Ellenson has shown nothing. Kennard can shoot, but his athletic ceiling is very low. Bundling the three of them together will not get us a starter-caliber small forward, and certainly not one worth denuding the team of the little depth it currently has.

[ImHeisenberg]

We have the MLE. We have SJ Ellenson and even the golden child Luke to use to get us a starting SF. Times aren't so rough.

Who is going to forfeit their starting (quality) small forward for your proposed poopoo platter? Two bench players, and a guy who already has one foot out of the league? Yeah, sounds about commensurate with Kawhi's value.

[ImHeisenberg]

Rereading the first five pages of this thread was a cringeworthy experience. The supporters of the trade were full of rah-rah, wishful-thinking sentiment that totally violated basketball sense, and fully intent on drinking the proverbial Kool-Aid from each other and from any analyst who agreed with them---and equally so on simply dismissing anyone who disagreed. Not coincidentally, those people are all nowhere to be found on this forum lately.

This isn't an "I told you so situation"; it's that the negative ramifications of the trade were so f***ing obvious from day one, yet so many fans either didn't understand them, didn't want to hear them, or refused to accept them. Instead we were subjected to an impassioned avalanche of basketball stupidity. It was a super disappointing time to be posting here or on any of the other Pistons forums, where the exact same thing happened.

It hasn’t just stopped there though, there’s still around 5 posters that refuse to admit that the Blake trade was a cyanide pill in disguise and continue to make excuses like “with a healthy Reggie”, “if Blake can continue shooting 40% from 3”, “with at least one training camp together under their belt”, “if we had a better wing” and the list goes on. It’s this same stupidity that can be seen in the thread regarding the use of our 1st round pick should we win the lottery where people are trying to find a way to justify the Griffins trade STILL. It’s actually soured my participation here as I feel the stupidity and a total lack of common sense has reached breaking point where logical and rational discussion is derailed due to blind homerism and ignorance.

I think out of all the moves this franchise has made in the last ten years the Blake trade is easily the worst.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

No, what's stupid is constantly whining about the situation. The same 4 or 5 posters that infect every thread on here with the same exact negative posts and the "I told you so" attitude. Its fine, I get it. People are angry.
What all of us "idiots" are saying is that like it or not we're kinda stuck with Blake. I'm ok with it, you're obviously not. So we're not going to be able to trade him for a few years. So we try and make the best of the situation for a few years until we can trade him. Then we blow it up like you want.
If you want, leave us your info and we can keep you posted when you can come back and cheer for your team again

This message board is for discussion on the team. Not blind fandom, with zero logical thought behind it. If you want that environment, go to those facebook groups where the longest comments are "detroit basketball" with 85 "e's" in it. Crymson gave an opinion that he supported with facts and statistics. You, however, just attacked the poster as you have NOTHING to back up your blind fan opinion.

If you disagree, give us something more than, "deal with it".

[A_dub06]

Rereading the first five pages of this thread was a cringeworthy experience. The supporters of the trade were full of rah-rah, wishful-thinking sentiment that totally violated basketball sense, and fully intent on drinking the proverbial Kool-Aid from each other and from any analyst who agreed with them---and equally so on simply dismissing anyone who disagreed. Not coincidentally, those people are all nowhere to be found on this forum lately.

This isn't an "I told you so situation"; it's that the negative ramifications of the trade were so f***ing obvious from day one, yet so many fans either didn't understand them, didn't want to hear them, or refused to accept them. Instead we were subjected to an impassioned avalanche of basketball stupidity. It was a super disappointing time to be posting here or on any of the other Pistons forums, where the exact same thing happened.

It hasn’t just stopped there though, there’s still around 5 posters that refuse to admit that the Blake trade was a cyanide pill in disguise and continue to make excuses like “with a healthy Reggie”, “if Blake can continue shooting 40% from 3”, “with at least one training camp together under their belt”, “if we had a better wing” and the list goes on. It’s this same stupidity that can be seen in the thread regarding the use of our 1st round pick should we win the lottery where people are trying to find a way to justify the Griffins trade STILL. It’s actually soured my participation here as I feel the stupidity and a total lack of common sense has reached breaking point where logical and rational discussion is derailed due to blind homerism and ignorance.

I think out of all the moves this franchise has made in the last ten years the Blake trade is easily the worst.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

No, what's stupid is constantly whining about the situation. The same 4 or 5 posters that infect every thread on here with the same exact negative posts and the "I told you so" attitude. Its fine, I get it. People are angry.
What all of us "idiots" are saying is that like it or not we're kinda stuck with Blake. I'm ok with it, you're obviously not. So we're not going to be able to trade him for a few years. So we try and make the best of the situation for a few years until we can trade him. Then we blow it up like you want.
If you want, leave us your info and we can keep you posted when you can come back and cheer for your team again

My posts and criticisms aren’t negative, they are realistic, based on actual evidence and supported by virtually every single writer, blogger and mind In the NBA. Nobody is praising our team for the Blake trade, the moves that this team continues to make or its trajectory outside of you and a couple other posters which provide nothing to validate your point of view. I understand wanting the team to succeed, but there is no silver lining here and trying to act as if there is only makes you look dumb and like you fail to grasp basic principles of basketball and the league. If you want something to be happy about, consider that a new GM may be able to convince Gores that this team is beyond repair and maybe start to tear it all down. While the Blake trade has hurt us, I actually think some team may be dumb enough to simply give us expiring or close to expiring contracts should we wish to get out of that stench in which case a rebuild could be within a couple seasons. Yes it’s unlikely that Gores would allow one as he wants to fill seats, but if the teams current construction can’t do that why would another short sighted trade? People want to see winning but it needs to be sustainable and real, a first round playoff exit or two isn’t going to cut it.


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[Canadafan]

No, what's stupid is constantly whining about the situation.

No, what's really stupid is referring to criticism of the trade on a discussion board as "whining" or "negativity," as if this should be a place only for a certain type of opinions, criticisms, or discussion of the organization, or it's somehow inherently bad or wrong here.

Sure, some posts take criticisms to an unreasonable extreme. So do some posts complimenting the team. See the first five pages of this thread for details. I'm guessing you weren't speaking up against that anywhere, because you apparently consider wholesale, bandwagon hype to be totally acceptable even when it's based on zero logic and doesn't brook any disagreement from other posters.

So when I have a different opinion than you and 3 others that repeat the same negative crap over and over and over, I'm called stupid. Ok I got it now. My bad

[Canadafan]

We have the MLE. We have SJ Ellenson and even the golden child Luke to use to get us a starting SF. Times aren't so rough.

Who is going to forfeit their starting (quality) small forward for your proposed poopoo platter? Two bench players, and a guy who already has one foot out of the league? Yeah, sounds about commensurate with Kawhi's value.

Nobody said get a MVP level talent. I said a "starting SF".

[Canadafan]

"There is no silver lining here and trying to act as if there is only makes you look dumb"

Well at least you're not holding back on how you really feel. Lol
Anyways, I'm not trying to be a dick and there's no need to trip out. Basically all I'm saying is I feel we're stuck with Blake for two more years. Which will prevent us from rebuilding properly. So make the best of the next year or two with an eye toward what you guys are suggesting. To rush into a rebuild right now would just make us give up assets to get rid of the Leuer Galloway Blake contracts.

[Uncle Mxy]

In light of Tobias Harris' recent injury, which seems career-ending (that knee is worse than Shaun Livingston's!!! He might need amputation!!!), is this trade looking any better for us? Or, is it still poo-poo on Blake and SVG?

[vege]

We have the MLE. We have SJ Ellenson and even the golden child Luke to use to get us a starting SF. Times aren't so rough.

Who is going to forfeit their starting (quality) small forward for your proposed poopoo platter? Two bench players, and a guy who already has one foot out of the league? Yeah, sounds about commensurate with Kawhi's value.

We could easily get one of those 5 starting quality SF (they're nothing special, but they're better than some starters in the league right now, and Canadafan never suggested we would get an above average starter SF with any of those pieces).

Kyle Anderson (MLE) - #7 in RPM among SFs / #2 in DRPM among SFs / #32 in ORPM among SFs / #12 in RPM WINS among SFs
Omri Casspi (MLE) - #24 in RPM among SFs / #21 in DRPM among SFs / #39 in ORPM among SFs / #38 in RPM WINS among SFs

DeMarre Carroll (SJ, if we can make the salaries work) - #9 in RPM among SFs / #10 in DRPM among SFs / #16 in ORPM among SFs / #10 in RPM WINS among SFs
Rudy Gay (SJ if we can make the salaries work) - #26 in RPM among SFs / #25 in DRPM among SFs / #40 in ORPM among SFs / #34 in RPM WINS among SFs
Thabo Sefolosha (for SJ) - #11 in RPM among SFs / #4 in DRPM among SFs / #30 in ORPM among SFs / #27 in RPM WINS among SFs

For comparisson

Stanley Johnson is #37 in RPM / #11 in DRPM / #77 in ORPM / #30 in RPM WINS

[buzzkilloton]

In light of Tobias Harris' recent injury, which seems career-ending (that knee is worse than Shaun Livingston's!!! He might need amputation!!!), is this trade looking any better for us? Or, is it still poo-poo on Blake and SVG?

How come I cant find anything about this injury anywhere on the internet? He led the clippers in minutes and scored 21 on 16 shots with 7A 4reb. Is this a bad April fools joke?

[A_dub06]

"There is no silver lining here and trying to act as if there is only makes you look dumb"

Well at least you're not holding back on how you really feel. Lol
Anyways, I'm not trying to be a dick and there's no need to trip out. Basically all I'm saying is I feel we're stuck with Blake for two more years. Which will prevent us from rebuilding properly. So make the best of the next year or two with an eye toward what you guys are suggesting. To rush into a rebuild right now would just make us give up assets to get rid of the Leuer Galloway Blake contracts.

Please quote me where I have said something that is factually incorrect regarding my views on the way this team has been built, its direction or the Griffin trade. Everything I have said has been based on substantial evidence and yet you decide to continually push the idea that we can compete in nonsense what if scenarios, and being optimistic to a fault. If you realise we are stuck with Blake for a couple of years, why do you think we should then go and make trades to justify the initial horrendous trade? We don't have a single player on the roster outside of maybe Tolliver and Bullock that actually contributes to winning. Blake thus far hasn't made an impact on this team and Drummond even with his improvements doesn't seem to be able to shoulder a franchise, some posters keep saying that we can't tank with these guys on our roster but then fail to see we cant win either so why can't we? They fit so poorly together and this team is an injury away from being crippled.

Rushing into a rebuild doesn't mean that we trade away assets to clear cap space, thats not what rebuilding teams should do so why do you think this? Cap space is only useful to teams that can attract free agents. What we need to do is ride out the bad contracts or in the case of Griffin trade him asap for expiring contracts and if we can receive a 1st round pick even if its #20 or later that would be the cherry on top. We then continue to fill the team with underwhelming young players and force feed minutes to see if we can find or develop a diamond in the rough. By taking this aggressive development stance we would be able to see if our players are actually worth keeping and also get high draft picks to build a solid foundation and then several years later we would be an ideal free agent destination as we would have a solid core on the rise with cap space. It's a pretty clear plan with direction, and its not like the current roster is bringing in any more fans than what my scenario would. Obviously would take SVG to get fired and Gores to buy in but he's not dumb and I think after this he would realise there is no such thing as a short term fix in the NBA. That inevitable rebuild is only made closer by the colossal failure that was this season.

[Crymson]

So when I have a different opinion than you and 3 others that repeat the same negative crap over and over and over, I'm called stupid. Ok I got it now. My bad

I haven't called you stupid. Not sure where you're coming from with that one.

[Uncle Mxy]

In light of Tobias Harris' recent injury, which seems career-ending (that knee is worse than Shaun Livingston's!!! He might need amputation!!!), is this trade looking any better for us? Or, is it still poo-poo on Blake and SVG?

How come I cant find anything about this injury anywhere on the internet? He led the clippers in minutes and scored 21 on 16 shots with 7A 4reb. Is this a bad April fools joke?

It was so bad that you fell for it.

[Richard Miller]

In light of Tobias Harris' recent injury, which seems career-ending (that knee is worse than Shaun Livingston's!!! He might need amputation!!!), is this trade looking any better for us? Or, is it still poo-poo on Blake and SVG?

How come I cant find anything about this injury anywhere on the internet? He led the clippers in minutes and scored 21 on 16 shots with 7A 4reb. Is this a bad April fools joke?

It was so bad that you fell for it.

Can't see how anyone could joke with career-ending injuries and think it's funny or something.