WOJBomb - Stanley Johnson for Thon Maker

[Billl]

I know Stanley frustrated us, but the more I reflect on the trade the more I dislike it. He was showing flashes and is still a better player than Maker. Plus Maker is signed through next year.

The only upside is we won't give Stanley an undeserved extension, but that's cold comfort.

This is year 4 for stanley, and he's playing worse than he did as a rookie. It might click for hims someday, but it wasn't going to be here.

An extra year of a rookie deal isn't a bad thing. It doesn't actually cost us cap space this summer because we wouldn't have had cap space either way. Thon's contract could still theoretically be used in a bigger trade or to snap a second rounder at the next trade deadline. SJ's value as an expiring went to zero when the trade deadline passed.

[Spider156]

For most (except for maybe top players) opportunity and role are a big factor in determining success in the league. I'm all for giving a guy like Thon a chance to flourish in a new system, expanded role. Look no further than Spencer Dinwiddie as a prime example.

I do believe this is the case here. Bucks are contending so Thon becomes nervous playing and staying in his own role. With a new team he can definitely flourish. I can understand Bucks fans thinking he sucks definitely. For this team though I believe he fits perfectly with Dre and Griffin. Dre can go back to passing from the 3 pt line with Thon standing on the perimeter. Blake will have a lot more space without Stanley let alone Thon being able to shoot. He can really block shots and he plays with passion. I got a good feeling about him. Always remember Ben Wallace and Chauncey hopped teams too and they blew up on our team because they had passion. He can be good with more minutes. Opportunity and situation is everything in sports.

[JD43320]

I know Stanley frustrated us, but the more I reflect on the trade the more I dislike it. He was showing flashes and is still a better player than Maker. Plus Maker is signed through next year.

The only upside is we won't give Stanley an undeserved extension, but that's cold comfort.

Stanley has not shown flashes. He’s had fluke games. Let’s be real about Stanley. He had one “talent” offensively and that was being a competent dibbler. Not sick handles or good moves with the ball. He could just push the ball up the court after a rebound or a turnover without dribbling the ball off his foot. That’s it. If he met any kind of resistance going to the basket then you knew he was going to flush that opportunity down the toilet because he’s for lack of a better word terrible.

Stanley can not only not shoot but his mechanics are trash. I could forgive his struggles from the outside if he was at least trying to revamp his technique but no. He stuck with the low release, kick my legs out to the side and releasing the ball while coming down from his 4 inch vertical routine. Dude is a truck but never learned how to use his size on smaller players. His post ups on PG/SG’s were cringe worth to watch. He rarely if ever improved his position and would most times end up getting his shot blocked by the shorter player because of his pathetic vertical and low release. He would literally shoot the ball directly into his defenders hands. His drives to the basket were just as sad. He lacked the speed and moves to blow past his defender so his defender remained on his hip. As a result teams rarely had to adjust to “contest” his lay-up attempt because either his current defender would block or the rim would. Also made him passing in those situations impossible because everyone else was still covered due to the defense not needing to react to what Stanley was doing. It would either end up as a turnover or a defender tipping the ball out of bounds.

I don’t buy for a second that Stanley is a better player than Thon. That’s not to say that I think Thon is a good player. I just think it’s damn near impossible for him to be worse player than Stanley. Basically it boils down to the fact that they are both projects. One project is a mobile 7 footer (who plays as tall as he is) with an ok shot for someone his size. The other project is a 6’7” small forward with none of the offensive skills that the position requires, plays smaller than he is thanks to broken mechanics and subpar NBA athleticism. Personally I think that the mobile 7 footer that could be a back up stretch five is a better prospect than a guy that is projecting to be a poor man’s Andre Roberson. Frankly I don’t think Stanley is long for the NBA. Then again maybe teams only wanting you for your expiring contract is enough of a kick in the ass to get him to actually work on improving his game and even then who knows if that work will even take.

The are only two reasons to be upset with this trade. One is because we didn’t trade Stanley sooner and the other is that we ever drafted him at all.

[potatoaim]

I know Stanley frustrated us, but the more I reflect on the trade the more I dislike it. He was showing flashes and is still a better player than Maker. Plus Maker is signed through next year.

The only upside is we won't give Stanley an undeserved extension, but that's cold comfort.

Stanley has not shown flashes. He’s had fluke games. Let’s be real about Stanley. He had one “talent” offensively and that was being a competent dibbler. Not sick handles or good moves with the ball. He could just push the ball up the court after a rebound or a turnover without dribbling the ball off his foot. That’s it. If he met any kind of resistance going to the basket then you knew he was going to flush that opportunity down the toilet because he’s for lack of a better word terrible.

Stanley can not only not shoot but his mechanics are trash. I could forgive his struggles from the outside if he was at least trying to revamp his technique but no. He stuck with the low release, kick my legs out to the side and releasing the ball while coming down from his 4 inch vertical routine. Dude is a truck but never learned how to use his size on smaller players. His post ups on PG/SG’s were cringe worth to watch. He rarely if ever improved his position and would most times end up getting his shot blocked by the shorter player because of his pathetic vertical and low release. He would literally shoot the ball directly into his defenders hands. His drives to the basket were just as sad. He lacked the speed and moves to blow past his defender so his defender remained on his hip. As a result teams rarely had to adjust to “contest” his lay-up attempt because either his current defender would block or the rim would. Also made him passing in those situations impossible because everyone else was still covered due to the defense not needing to react to what Stanley was doing. It would either end up as a turnover or a defender tipping the ball out of bounds.

I don’t buy for a second that Stanley is a better player than Thon. That’s not to say that I think Thon is a good player. I just think it’s damn near impossible for him to be worse player than Stanley. Basically it boils down to the fact that they are both projects. One project is a mobile 7 footer (who plays as tall as he is) with an ok shot for someone his size. The other project is a 6’7” small forward with none of the offensive skills that the position requires, plays smaller than he is thanks to broken mechanics and subpar NBA athleticism. Personally I think that the mobile 7 footer that could be a back up stretch five is a better prospect than a guy that is projecting to be a poor man’s Andre Roberson. Frankly I don’t think Stanley is long for the NBA. Then again maybe teams only wanting you for your expiring contract is enough of a kick in the ass to get him to actually work on improving his game and even then who knows if that work will even take.

The are only two reasons to be upset with this trade. One is because we didn’t trade Stanley sooner and the other is that we ever drafted him at all.

This pretty much sums it up. This team is better now simply due to fact that they dont have to give SJ 20+ minutes a game.

[JD43320]

Stanley is already out of the tanking Pelicans rotation. His NBA career is cooked. Getting a semi-useful player for him was highway robbery.

[Kilo]

Pellies wanted expirings for Mirotic - Johnson wasn't flipped there by Milwaukee because of his talent. The four second rounders was the value Milwaukee sent otherwise. Johnson will get one more contract to show something - he should forget about money and try to land in the best situation coaching and system wise. I still think he needs SA and Pop - he could replace Rudy Gay on their roster next season at a 3rd of the price.

[BadMofoPimp]

Stanley is already out of the tanking Pelicans rotation. His NBA career is cooked. Getting a semi-useful player for him was highway robbery.

Being I am in Florida, how has Maker looked thus far?

[El Chivo]

Stanley is already out of the tanking Pelicans rotation. His NBA career is cooked. Getting a semi-useful player for him was highway robbery.

Being I am in Florida, how has Maker looked thus far?

Can hit a corner 3, can protect the rim. Decent backup.

[Kilo]

Stanley is already out of the tanking Pelicans rotation. His NBA career is cooked. Getting a semi-useful player for him was highway robbery.

Being I am in Florida, how has Maker looked thus far?

Too early to have a real opinion he's played about 20 minutes here and scoured 5 points and secured five boards. Seems to be high energy when he is in the game - but could just be the new guy showing out for his new team. Casey thought enough of him to not dress Leuer and Robinson last game - bit him in the ass a bit when Thon took the headbutt in the mouth and needed stitches leaving us with no PF back-up at all. But shows Coach Casey is comfortable giving Maker 13-15mpg right away purely at the four backing up Griffin, and probably gets some minutes at the five as well playing with Griff.

[JD43320]

Pellies wanted expirings for Mirotic - Johnson wasn't flipped there by Milwaukee because of his talent. The four second rounders was the value Milwaukee sent otherwise. Johnson will get one more contract to show something - he should forget about money and try to land in the best situation coaching and system wise. I still think he needs SA and Pop - he could replace Rudy Gay on their roster next season at a 3rd of the price.

He could replace Rudy Gay on their roster next season at a 3rd of the price and a tenth of the production. There is no guarantee Pop will be back next season and even if he is he failed to fix the last Piston draft bust he got his hands on.

[vic]

Stanley was a 3/4, and better as a 4.
One of his last games as a Piston he excelled at that role. He had more than a couple good games in his years here. Laughably, SVG had him playing the 2. If he finds a team that can use him right, he'll excel as a wing defender on defense, 4 on offense.

Unfortunately the Pistons don't like to play people in their roles. They like to frustrate and try to change players, then watch them become stars (or at least solid contributors) on other teams. Just like Tobias, Dinwiddie, Middleton, and others... I'm willing to bet Stanley does great once he finds his role on a team next year.

Good thing about Thon is that you don't have to be too smart to put him in his right role. Just make him a 4/5 and tell him to shoot 3s and defend. If he can do it, he does it. If not, you bench him.

My question is on defense... Can Thon Maker defend or even challenge Kahwi, Giannis, Jimmy Butler, Gordon Hayward... will he stand up to Lebron if needed?

Say what you want about Stanley's scoring. But you know he's going to defend the bigger wings without fear.

I'm hoping Thon will be somewhat of a stopper. Will Casey even try him for that? I don't think Bruce Brown/Glenn Robinson is the answer against the wings of the East.

It would be an awesome story if Thon could stick with Giannis in the playoffs.

[DCintheD]

The saddest thing is that some of us here (me included) were hoping he’d be the next kawhi or jimmy. Very funny that he got drafted way ahead of them in their respective drafts. Big time bust based on expectations and draft position.

[DetroitSho]

Stanley was a 3/4, and better as a 4.
One of his last games as a Piston he excelled at that role. He had more than a couple good games in his years here. Laughably, SVG had him playing the 2. If he finds a team that can use him right, he'll excel as a wing defender on defense, 4 on offense.

Unfortunately the Pistons don't like to play people in their roles. They like to frustrate and try to change players, then watch them become stars (or at least solid contributors) on other teams. Just like Tobias, Dinwiddie, Middleton, and others... I'm willing to bet Stanley does great once he finds his role on a team next year.

Good thing about Thon is that you don't have to be too smart to put him in his right role. Just make him a 4/5 and tell him to shoot 3s and defend. If he can do it, he does it. If not, you bench him.

My question is on defense... Can Thon Maker defend or even challenge Kahwi, Giannis, Jimmy Butler, Gordon Hayward... will he stand up to Lebron if needed?

Say what you want about Stanley's scoring. But you know he's going to defend the bigger wings without fear.

I'm hoping Thon will be somewhat of a stopper. Will Casey even try him for that? I don't think Bruce Brown/Glenn Robinson is the answer against the wings of the East.

It would be an awesome story if Thon could stick with Giannis in the playoffs.

Bro seriously Tobias was already great here too before trading him last year, he didn't all of a sudden blow up when going to a new team. Dinwiddie was ass when he was here and ass after he left. He finally figured it out in year 5. Were we supposed to wait 5 years on him? Stanley? You say Stanley is a 3/4? And you know that because that's the role you've seen from him in a Piston uniform this year. So he was given ample opportunity in what you state is his best role. What reason is there to complain?

I don't understand how who you guard on defense determines you being a good shooter or an ass shooter. So SVG played him as a 2. Ok? So he chased smaller guys on the perimeter instead of bigger guys on the perimeter. He hasn't developed the ability to hit open jumpers. That's not role dependent. That's player dependent.

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[ChuckVanBrown]

SJ is a bust. He can’t shoot, and is a total liability on the offensive end. He also showed no real signs of improving over the past few seasons. We’re likely better by not having him on the team, as harsh as it sounds. Compared to Monroe, KCP, and Knight, SJ was a much worse draft selection.

I’ll admit, I liked him when we drafted him. Seemed like one of those irrational confident guys that genuinely was happy to be drafted here. Maybe SVG beat down any potential he had? Who knows, but I’m fine with the return we got from him. He had little value to most teams, and Thon is at least more entertaining to watch and has some interesting matchup potential.

[DetroitPistons]

I was also one of the people that LOVED SJs potential and thought he could be a Jimmy Butler type. I based that on his physical characteristics and thought that he would eventually add a jumpshot and finish better since those things are actually developed rather easily over time by many NBA players. However, SJ did not improve one single bit so I'll gladly eat crow on that one. I'm actually happy with Maker though. He has an extra year on his rookie deal and I think he has potential to be a good rim protector and 3pt shooter, which is two things we really need help in.

[Snakebites]

SJ is a bust. He can’t shoot, and is a total liability on the offensive end. He also showed no real signs of improving over the past few seasons. We’re likely better by not having him on the team, as harsh as it sounds. Compared to Monroe, KCP, and Knight, SJ was a much worse draft selection.

I’ll admit, I liked him when we drafted him. Seemed like one of those irrational confident guys that genuinely was happy to be drafted here. Maybe SVG beat down any potential he had? Who knows, but I’m fine with the return we got from him. He had little value to most teams, and Thon is at least more entertaining to watch and has some interesting matchup potential.

Yeah. He still plays very much like a rookie offensively, it's sad. I was pretty disappointed when we picked him over Winslow, though later indications are that Winslow tanked his workout with us so we wouldn't pick him (that feels great, doesn't it?). Pretty much everything I was worried about with Stanley more or less came to pass- that his shot would never develop, that he wouldn't be athletic enough to overcome that and even be somewhat viable on offense, etc.

I still think we lost the trade because he's an expiring and Maker (who I also consider a bust) isn't, but it's an indifferent choice. I don't know that the couple of million next year will make any difference.

[tmorgan]

SJ is bottoming out hard in New Orleans... less minutes, even less results. Hasn't made a 3 or a *free throw* since leaving. Ugh.

[Snakebites]

SJ is bottoming out hard in New Orleans... less minutes, even less results. Hasn't made a 3 or a *free throw* since leaving. Ugh.

And that's not exactly a team with great wing options either, makes it even worse.

[srt4b]

Stanley is almost Darko levels of bad for where drafted. How often is someone drafted at 8 and never gets a contract beyond the rookie deal? I can't see him going to China as he cannot shoot. Maybe he will get a 1 year min deal from someone willing to pay someone to work on his shot for 6 months to a year?

[Southern Piston]

I liked so, but maker is a good fit to be a third wheel to Drummond and Blake, it’s definitly a win