Around the League

[mattao313]

Yeah really not a bad deal all around imo. Celtics did very well.

Does this bring Bojans price down to reality for us?

Seems like we're going to keep him not like he's worth much any way. A 34yr old no defense player isn't gonna net you much

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[zeebneeb]

Looks like Porzingas did get traded to Boston just before his midnight deadline to opt out.

Marcus Smart is going to the Grizzlies in the deal which is pretty crazy. Tyus Jones going to the Wizards, and Tyus has been the best backup PG in the league for. awhile its why Memphis never misses a beat when Ja is out. Tyus will be a great young piece for Washington to start their rebuild.

This deal Memphis made for Smart, is actually good for a locker room presence. It was desperately needed. Smart is all about winning, and I'm sure some of the sting of being traded from the team that drafted you, is cushioned by landing on another contender.

Smart isn't going to be pushed around by Morant, and his stupidity, and will demand hard work, and team spirit.

I am unsure how this will work out for Boston. Smart was the leader on that team, and without him, who steps up? Neither Brown, or Tatum can be counted on when it matters, and KP, while awesome on paper, and when he's actually healthy, is also timid in the clutch.

Guess White is the new starter, with Brogdon as the backup.

[MortSahlfan]

I don't think this is going to work well for the Celtics or Grizzlies, who won't have Dillon Brooks, and no Ja for 25 games. I'd say better for Memphis than Boston. Kristaps is going to get less post-ups, and I doubt he plays 65 games, and has a season like last.

The Celtics actually traded Horford, realized the chemistry was off, and traded for him. Marcus Smart was the heart and soul of the captain.

[Pharaoh]

Looks like Porzingas did get traded to Boston just before his midnight deadline to opt out.

Marcus Smart is going to the Grizzlies in the deal which is pretty crazy. Tyus Jones going to the Wizards, and Tyus has been the best backup PG in the league for. awhile its why Memphis never misses a beat when Ja is out. Tyus will be a great young piece for Washington to start their rebuild.

This deal Memphis made for Smart, is actually good for a locker room presence. It was desperately needed. Smart is all about winning, and I'm sure some of the sting of being traded from the team that drafted you, is cushioned by landing on another contender.

Smart isn't going to be pushed around by Morant, and his stupidity, and will demand hard work, and team spirit.

I am unsure how this will work out for Boston. Smart was the leader on that team, and without him, who steps up? Neither Brown, or Tatum can be counted on when it matters, and KP, while awesome on paper, and when he's actually healthy, is also timid in the clutch.

Guess White is the new starter, with Brogdon as the backup.

Don't think you can unequivocally say Tatum can't be counted on considering the ankle issue in Game 7 v Miami when we all saw his performance against Philly.

I'm wondering if Boston will start Time Lord with Porzingis & Tatum up front, Brown & White at guard with Horford, Brogdan & Williams off the bench.

This is a 1 year rental (hence they got firsts for cheap future talent) so if it doesn't work we could see them flip Brown or Zingis at the deadline and retool around Tatum.

It seems they want Tatum to be their leader.

On Memphis - forgive the pun but a really smart move by a intelligent FO. Smart not only can play with Ja eventually but can also share the floor with Ja & Bane. He brings all the intangibles they need on and off the floor and also replaces a lot of the defense they lost by dumping Brooks

Washington? Fire sale! Didn't get much in the Beal trade, don't get much here. Jones has been the best back up PG in the league for a while but the Wizards now have him, Morris and Wright on board (assuming they buyout CP3) They have more moves to make obviously

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[bstein14]

Porzingas has a chance to really play equal with Brown and Tatum when it comes to scoring the ball, especially if they starter him up front with Williams and Tatum. Williams gets to man the paint on defense and Tatum is the #1 focal point of the opposing offense. I think Porzingas, Tatum, and Brown all end up averaging 20+ PPG next year as a trio. I think Boston is one good role player away (Bruce Brown type perhaps) from being clear favorites in the East.

[Kalamazoo317]

I'd consider both Grant Williams and Dillon Brooks on (short, cheap) contracts just to bring some defense and toughness to the roster around our young guys.

[uncleoswald]

sorry for navel gazing, but i have to say that it's painful to see the celtics continuing to live off the fumes of that late-00s core, considering what became of our mid-00s core.

[Invictus88]

sorry for navel gazing, but i have to say that it's painful to see the celtics continuing to live off the fumes of that late-00s core, considering what became of our mid-00s core.

It's plain as day the differences in approaches between Danny Ainge and Joe Dumars as general managers.

Ainge wasn't afraid to call it and ship away his aging core while they still had value and rebuild; realizing the value of future draft picks.

Dumars was the exact opposite; trying to extend an aging core through free agent acquisitions and doing close to nothing to foster the development of young talent.

Compare Boston's last 2 decades to Detroit's to see how these approaches turned out.

[Pharaoh]

CP3 to GSW!

Completely unexpected.

Another deal that is likely the direct result of the new CBA as the Warriors give it another year before cutting a load of salary

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[MortSahlfan]

Jarace looks like Stew!

[Invictus88]

John Collins' worth is finally established to be worth Rudy Gay and a 2nd rounder from Utah.

Seems about right.

[tmorgan]

John Collins' worth is finally established to be worth Rudy Gay and a 2nd rounder from Utah.

Seems about right.

Yep. Which is why all we should have offered was Bagley and junk.

[bstein14]

John Collins' worth is finally established to be worth Rudy Gay and a 2nd rounder from Utah.

Seems about right.

Yep. Which is why all we should have offered was Bagley and junk.

100 percent. I would rather have Gay and a 2nd for Bagley than Collins for Bagley to be honest

[Canadafan]

John Collins' worth is finally established to be worth Rudy Gay and a 2nd rounder from Utah.

Seems about right.

Yep. Which is why all we should have offered was Bagley and junk.

100 percent. I would rather have Gay and a 2nd for Bagley than Collins for Bagley to be honest

Well that's for sure. That's why Atlanta did it so they could get out from that contract. Not take on crappy Bagley and his $25million next 2 years. Rudy only has player option for 6mil for next year

[Piston Pete]

Vucevic signing for 3/60 seems like a great bargain for the Bulls.

Sets the big-man market as a buyer’s market.

[Pharaoh]

Bigs have been getting signed for cheapish deals for a while. Time Lord, Myles Turner, now Vuc

The only dude who got paid huge who didn't deserve it was Ayton

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[bstein14]

Yup, the league doesn't value centers right now. Wings and guards getting all the $.... it seemed like for a while bigs were always overpaid so I guess execs figured out it wasn't worth it. That said, with three of the top 5 guys in the league being bigs (Jokic, Giannis, Embiid) having a player or two with size to put in front of them isn't a bad thing... you just can't win having a guy like Duren being a max player even if Duren ends up being a 16 and 14 guy with good defense....

[Invictus88]

Yup, the league doesn't value centers right now. Wings and guards getting all the $.... it seemed like for a while bigs were always overpaid so I guess execs figured out it wasn't worth it. That said, with three of the top 5 guys in the league being bigs (Jokic, Giannis, Embiid) having a player or two with size to put in front of them isn't a bad thing... you just can't win having a guy like Duren being a max player even if Duren ends up being a 16 and 14 guy with good defense....

So this is clearly baiting the Ayton debate again. Some things never change.

Brook lopez was making 14 million a year at the same time Ayton was making 31 million while providing better floor spacing.

If Duren develops an outside shot or becomes even more impactful on defense then he warrants more consideration than Ayton at having a bigger contract. Ayton just gets lost at times / loses his motor. You can't waste max dollars on a guy like that.

After all the rumors of Phoenix unsuccessfully trying to rid themselves of Ayton recently I'm trying to figure out what stage of grief BStein is in right now regarding his prior max contract arguments for him. Is it depression or just denial masquerading as such?

[bstein14]

Yup, the league doesn't value centers right now. Wings and guards getting all the $.... it seemed like for a while bigs were always overpaid so I guess execs figured out it wasn't worth it. That said, with three of the top 5 guys in the league being bigs (Jokic, Giannis, Embiid) having a player or two with size to put in front of them isn't a bad thing... you just can't win having a guy like Duren being a max player even if Duren ends up being a 16 and 14 guy with good defense....

So this is clearly baiting the Ayton debate again. Some things never change.

Brook lopez was making 14 million a year at the same time Ayton was making 31 million while providing better floor spacing.

If Duren develops an outside shot or becomes even more impactful on defense then he warrants more consideration than Ayton at having a bigger contract. Ayton just gets lost at times / loses his motor. You can't waste max dollars on a guy like that.

After all the rumors of Phoenix unsuccessfully trying to rid themselves of Ayton recently I'm trying to figure out what stage of grief BStein is in right now regarding his prior max contract arguments for him. Is it depression or just denial masquerading as such?

You can't just dunk the ball and get rebounds and a screen setter and be a max player big man. If you're an elite DPOY caliber rim protecter as well sure then you can push a higher amount and still be ok. If you've got the ability to step outside and make shots on the perimeter sure you can be ok going with a higher salary. If you've got the ability to make great passes and create for teammates and have some offense run through you, sure you can go higher. You can't just be an energy, dunking and rebounding big and be a max player franchise type though I think we've seen the league has evolved and stepped away from that.

I agree for Ayton a lot of his issues seem to be his motor/motivation/energy/etc.

The 21-22 season Ayton hit 37% from deep and part of my willingness to say sure I'll throw him a max deal, but I wouldn't give up assets in a trade for him with thinking he was going to be able to build on that. I'm still not sure he is happy in Phoenix even with a coaching change and ownership change perhaps if he gets traded to the right team and situation we'll see the best out of him or perhaps we never will.

That said, I'd still rather have Ayton at $30 million than Wiseman/Bagley/Hayes at $30 million this season. At least Ayton is a slightly above average starter even with all his shortcomings.

[Snakebites]

Yup, the league doesn't value centers right now. Wings and guards getting all the $.... it seemed like for a while bigs were always overpaid so I guess execs figured out it wasn't worth it. That said, with three of the top 5 guys in the league being bigs (Jokic, Giannis, Embiid) having a player or two with size to put in front of them isn't a bad thing... you just can't win having a guy like Duren being a max player even if Duren ends up being a 16 and 14 guy with good defense....

So this is clearly baiting the Ayton debate again. Some things never change.

Brook lopez was making 14 million a year at the same time Ayton was making 31 million while providing better floor spacing.

If Duren develops an outside shot or becomes even more impactful on defense then he warrants more consideration than Ayton at having a bigger contract. Ayton just gets lost at times / loses his motor. You can't waste max dollars on a guy like that.

After all the rumors of Phoenix unsuccessfully trying to rid themselves of Ayton recently I'm trying to figure out what stage of grief BStein is in right now regarding his prior max contract arguments for him. Is it depression or just denial masquerading as such?

You can't just dunk the ball and get rebounds and a screen setter and be a max player big man. If you're an elite DPOY caliber rim protecter as well sure then you can push a higher amount and still be ok. If you've got the ability to step outside and make shots on the perimeter sure you can be ok going with a higher salary. If you've got the ability to make great passes and create for teammates and have some offense run through you, sure you can go higher. You can't just be an energy, dunking and rebounding big and be a max player franchise type though I think we've seen the league has evolved and stepped away from that.

I agree for Ayton a lot of his issues seem to be his motor/motivation/energy/etc.

The 21-22 season Ayton hit 37% from deep and part of my willingness to say sure I'll throw him a max deal, but I wouldn't give up assets in a trade for him with thinking he was going to be able to build on that. I'm still not sure he is happy in Phoenix even with a coaching change and ownership change perhaps if he gets traded to the right team and situation we'll see the best out of him or perhaps we never will.

That said, I'd still rather have Ayton at $30 million than Wiseman/Bagley/Hayes at $30 million this season. At least Ayton is a slightly above average starter even with all his shortcomings.

This season sure.

But Hayes/Wiseman/Bagley don't carry long term commitments, and smaller contracts are easier to deal with than longer ones.

There's a reason the Suns are so interested in moving him, and a reason that he hasn't been moved despite that interest. Guy isn't that good.