DetroitPistons wrote:Snakebites wrote:There is you saying that fan perception influences how you view a player. I wasn't straw manning you, I was properly responding to something you said that I strongly disagreed with. If you feel like you're being strawmanned a lot, it's possible that you're just not communicating what you think very well.
And there is a difference between fans pushing for a better team in general and impacting SPECIFIC moves with relation to SPECIFIC players or staff members. If the team is bad, people don't show up, they don't watch on TV. That
is capitalism. It's not bad mouthing specific players or aspects of the team that moves the needle, it's that. If that's not a difference you can understand, then, well, I really can't help you any further. I certainly was not agreeing with you.
This has been a tremendously frustrating interaction, to be honest.
I concede your first paragraph but I was referring to prior to me doing any research on the player. I think it's very fair to say EVERYONE gets a red flag in their head when they hear a fanbase trashing a player. You are kidding yourself if you think that doesn't influence you too. I apologize for not recognizing that you were referencing that quote.
Yeah, we agree to disagree. I've said that multiple times now. If every fan right now went to social media and relentlessly called for Casey to be fired you think that has no impact on the teams decision to make a SPECIFIC move with Casey. I personally think that is absurd. So yes, it has been incredibly frustrating because you have strawmanned me (trying to insinuate I'm letting Drummond off the hook and not acknowledging all the basketball factors that diminish his value, which I've acknowledged from the beginning) and you trying to separate capitalism (which as a conservative political nerd I understand very well) from the buyer's perception. They go hand in hand. If you are selling phones and every customer that walks in TELLS you I'm not going to buy your phone because I don't like XYZ about your phones then you would be a fool to not be influenced by it. Furthermore, If you stuck your fingers in your ears and ignored every one of those people and just looked at sales you would actually have no idea what SPECIFICALLY people don't like about it. You are basically denying customer feedback has an impact. I think YOU need to study capitalism a little more but yes, it's pretty frustrating when you are trying argue against something so fundamentally obvious. I feel like I'm debating Manocad here.
The most frustrating thing though is you and Invictus roping me into a waste of time debate when my main point in all of this is hey, maybe it's okay to say a good thing about a player you don't like when he does something good. You know, that whole objectivity thing. That is all.
Don't drag me into this, dude. You made this bed yourself.
You're not debating me but you're doing the same thing you've done before--you're inserting your opinion and purporting it as fact. You don't know how fan perception/opinion affects Drummond nor how it factors into the decision about what the team will do with him because you aren't Drummond's confidante nor do you work for the team. That's not an opinion or a criticism--it's a fact. You can only speculate.
If you know some history of professional sports, have knowledge of how businesses operate, and put those two together, you'll find that even though sports is only entertainment to you and me, it's still first and foremost a business to the owners. You think the Ford family doesn't know what the fans say about the Lions? How much influence in THAT organization has the fan voice made? About exactly...NONE. Why? Asses in seats, revenue, profits...period. To use your phone analogy, the reality of situation is that you're expecting the seller to listen to your gripes about his phone while they're flying off the shelves.
Being critical of Drummond's play or why he should or shouldn't have a future with the team doesn't mean anyone wishes he were dead. I like that Drummond appears to be a very good-natured dude; likes to joke, willing to speak to the reporters, and definitely has a presence in the community. He seems like a genuinely good guy. And I still don't want him on my team. Most people here have arrived at the opinion that Drummond may very likely have reached his ceiling, and what he can do on the court simply doesn't translate into championship basketball.That opinion is nothing anyone has to apologize for, and it doesn't require a "but on the bright side..." caveat in order to be valid or deserving of expression.
