Cade's agent and "team" coming to Detroit to meet with Weaver about when he can start playing.

[Invictus88]

i'll get laughed at but there's something just icky to me about this situation.

- October 1 cade gets a "very mild" ankle injury
- Casey says he isn't worried about cade missing the preseason opener (a home game)
- cade misses the preseason opener on Oct. 6, misses the preseason
- Oct. 17 casey says cade is on course to play in the season opener (a home game)
- Oct. 19 cade is ruled out for the season opener
- Oct. 20 Weaver says that cade is out for the road trip but they hope to have him back for their next home game

who wants to bet they say cade is "on track" to play on Oct. 30 leading up to the home game and then rule him out last minute?

also, unless he's staying in detroit when the team goes on the road (which i doubt) then it's odd they would definitively rule him out for the road games and specifically say "but maybe for the next home game". part of me thinks that casey and weaver are getting instructions from gores on how to handle this situation....

Sounds like they want nothing to stop the sell of tickets

Sure seems the case.

They could have easily avoided all this drama and backlash entirely, by declaring him "out indefinitely."

Covers the team in case they truly didn't know how long he was going to be out, and it covers them from a PR stand point as well. "Indefinitely" could mean anything from a week to out for the season. No matter when he returned, they would have been right and not perceived to be holding anything back.

Following this logic literally every injury would then be labelled as "out indefinitely" then to ensure correctness and avoid the "backlash". I mean, we'd always be correct then. That's a good thing right?

My goodness.

[thesack12]

Sounds like they want nothing to stop the sell of tickets

Sure seems the case.

They could have easily avoided all this drama and backlash entirely, by declaring him "out indefinitely."

Covers the team in case they truly didn't know how long he was going to be out, and it covers them from a PR stand point as well. "Indefinitely" could mean anything from a week to out for the season. No matter when he returned, they would have been right and not perceived to be holding anything back.

Following this logic literally every injury would then be labelled as "out indefinitely" then to ensure correctness and avoid the "backlash". I mean, we'd always be correct then. That's a good thing right?

My goodness.

Following your logic of doctors can't predict the future, things change, new information comes in, setbacks happen why do teams even bother putting any kind of timeline on any injury?

Yet every professional sports team does, the vast majority of the time.

Besides, when Cade got hurt Detroit's timeline was "he's not expected to miss the pre-season opener." Yet he we are 3 weeks later and Cade missed the entire preseason and will miss at least the first 4 regular season games.

[Invictus88]

Sure seems the case.

They could have easily avoided all this drama and backlash entirely, by declaring him "out indefinitely."

Covers the team in case they truly didn't know how long he was going to be out, and it covers them from a PR stand point as well. "Indefinitely" could mean anything from a week to out for the season. No matter when he returned, they would have been right and not perceived to be holding anything back.

Following this logic literally every injury would then be labelled as "out indefinitely" then to ensure correctness and avoid the "backlash". I mean, we'd always be correct then. That's a good thing right?

My goodness.

Following your logic of doctors can't predict the future, things change, new information comes in, setbacks happen why do teams even bother putting any kind of timeline on any injury?

Yet every professional sports team does, the vast majority of the time.

Besides, when Cade got hurt Detroit's timeline was "he's not expected to miss the pre-season opener." Yet he we are 3 weeks later and Cade missed the entire preseason and will miss at least the first 4 regular season games.

They put out timelines based on the best and most current information available. And for Cade that has meant at times his prognosis has changed as his evaluated condition has changed. People recover differently from injury. Evaluations change based on changing conditions during this process.

How is this so hard for people to grasp?

[thesack12]

Following this logic literally every injury would then be labelled as "out indefinitely" then to ensure correctness and avoid the "backlash". I mean, we'd always be correct then. That's a good thing right?

My goodness.

Following your logic of doctors can't predict the future, things change, new information comes in, setbacks happen why do teams even bother putting any kind of timeline on any injury?

Yet every professional sports team does, the vast majority of the time.

Besides, when Cade got hurt Detroit's timeline was "he's not expected to miss the pre-season opener." Yet he we are 3 weeks later and Cade missed the entire preseason and will miss at least the first 4 regular season games.

They put timelines based on the best and most current information available. And for Cade that has meant at times his prognosis has changed as his evaluated condition has changed. People recovery differently from injury. Evaluations change based on changing conditions during this process.

How is this so hard for people to grasp?

Of course, things change. I'm not trying to argue that.

But if/when things changed, why didn't the team bring that updated information to light?

All they kept saying was we aren't rushing him back. Which is cool, don't rush him back, but some semblance of a tangible return target is not too much to ask.

[Invictus88]

Following your logic of doctors can't predict the future, things change, new information comes in, setbacks happen why do teams even bother putting any kind of timeline on any injury?

Yet every professional sports team does, the vast majority of the time.

Besides, when Cade got hurt Detroit's timeline was "he's not expected to miss the pre-season opener." Yet he we are 3 weeks later and Cade missed the entire preseason and will miss at least the first 4 regular season games.

They put timelines based on the best and most current information available. And for Cade that has meant at times his prognosis has changed as his evaluated condition has changed. People recovery differently from injury. Evaluations change based on changing conditions during this process.

How is this so hard for people to grasp?

Of course, things change. I'm not trying to argue that.

But if/when things changed, why didn't the team bring that updated information to light?

All they kept saying was we aren't rushing him back. Which is cool, don't rush him back, but some semblance of a tangible return target is not too much to ask.

So they initially say a few days because the don't think the injury is that serious. Tangible return target defined.

Then the fluid doesn't reduce in his ankle after a week or so (unexpected). So the Pistons change their prognosis for longer. Tangible return target defined. But People like you get mad. There must be a conspiracy! Pistons are duping fans!

Then to guard against giving misinformation they then take the blanket stance of saying "We won't rush him back" because quite frankly after the previous twists and turns they might just not know. But of course that's apparently not good enough for you either.

You literally cannot win here. Angry folks gotta be angry I guess.

And just let me point out the complete irony that just a few posts ago you were suggesting that the Pistons would have been better off saying he is out indefinitely . That is the exact opposite of a tangible return target. W.T.F.

[thesack12]

They put timelines based on the best and most current information available. And for Cade that has meant at times his prognosis has changed as his evaluated condition has changed. People recovery differently from injury. Evaluations change based on changing conditions during this process.

How is this so hard for people to grasp?

Of course, things change. I'm not trying to argue that.

But if/when things changed, why didn't the team bring that updated information to light?

All they kept saying was we aren't rushing him back. Which is cool, don't rush him back, but some semblance of a tangible return target is not too much to ask.

So they initially say a few days because the don't think the injury is that serious. Tangible return target defined.

Then the fluid doesn't reduce in his ankle after a week or so (unexpected). So the Pistons change their prognosis for longer. Tangible return target defined. But People like you get mad. There must be a conspiracy! Pistons are duping fans!

Then to guard against giving misinformation they then take the blanket stance of saying "We won't rush him back" because quite frankly after the previous twists and turns they might just not know. But of course that's apparently not good enough for you either.

You literally cannot win here. Angry folks gotta be angry I guess.

And just let me point out the complete irony that just a few posts ago you were suggesting that the Pistons would have been better off saying he is out indefinitely . That is the exact opposite of a tangible return target. W.T.F.

Yeah, so basically keep everything behind closed doors and not make an actual announcement that there has been a setback or their timeline has changed internally.

Gotcha.

Meanwhile all the public has to go off of is "very mild" turned ankle. So taking that prognosis for face value, people naturally assume that Cade is set to return very soon.

Oh yeah, you really got me there chief. The Pistons took the strategy of not providing a tangible target, and me mentioning if they insisted on going that route they could have chose their words better as to avoid this entire ordeal.

If on October 1st, they announced Cade Cunningham is out indefinitely with an ankle injury, as opposed to Cade Cunningham has a "very mild rolled ankle" if you don't think the entire perception of this situation would be different then you are just naive. Choice of words and lack of information changes a lot.

[whitehops]

Why does that make it sound more serious? Something isn't right with all this.

Hey, didn't you know that players carrying "day to day" status are ruled out for the next 3 games (10 days) well ahead of time. "Day to Day" players also don't even make road trips either.

That's "week to week" status at best.

All of this started with an announcement of "Very mild" turned ankle on October 1st.

Its blatantly obvious the team has been holding back info this entire time.

i wonder what it could be though. he was never in a boot (from all the media stuff posted), he's been at practice for a while now just doing light shooting and shed his ankle brace like a week ago already. any ligament damage is unlikely otherwise he wouldn't have even been on the court all this time.

just wild speculation on my part but maybe the medical staff had concerns about his long-term ankle health. guys like steph curry and tobias harris had chronic ankle issues at the beginning of their careers and missed a lot of games because of it. i didn't think anything of it earlier but cade did miss the last two preseason games with "calf soreness", and the calf (and the muscles on the sides and front of your shin) are the primary muscles for ankle strength. maybe they're just getting his ankle strength up as a preventative measure?

also, my friend injured his retinaculum (like a band that goes overtop your ankle) and it was pretty debilitating til it healed up. he could exercise up to a certain point but then it was very painful.

lots of possibilities, but it's obviously not just a very mild ankle turn. oh well, no information leads to speculation

[Manocad]

Teams and doctors are putting time frames far past their next scheduled game. So they are "predicting the future" to a certain degree.

Day to day, or GTD, injuries (which wasn't even declared for the first several weeks for Cade) don't linger for a month. Those kind of injuries are measured in weeks. Even if they are unsure, that's where the term "out indefinitely" comes into play. Which is essentially what Cade has been, but them not classifying it as such leaves the hope open that he was going to play in the preseason, then the season opener, etc.

Obviously they did an MRI on Cade's ankle when he got hurt and any type of ankle sprain or anything worse would have shown up. So either they have a flawed MRI machine, or the team doctors can't read the scans, or the team chose not to classify it as anything worse than a "very mild turned ankle." "Very mild" injuries to anything, don't keep players out for a month.

The team's choice of words, lack of timeline, and overall quietness of the situation is what people have taken issue with.

Regardless, people are allowed to feel a certain way about something involving a professional sports team they follow. Sports team's exist for public consumption. Just because it didn't effect you in the same way that people are expressing their frustration over doesn't mean its being "childish". It just means people consume and react to things differently. In this particular case, I see no reason why people should be ridiculed for expressing frustration that their team has been far less than transparent regarding the health of the face of the franchise. Its not like they are asking or expecting anything extra, just some sort of tangible timeline which is provided for the extremely vast majority of all other professional sports injuries.

For the final time, I never said someone wasn't allowed to feel a certain way. I simply said that if you're going to put those feelings on social media then you are implicitly seeking a reaction. That reaction may be sympathy, and that reaction may be "Seriously, bro? THAT'S what you're pissed about and you weren't even planning on going to the game? Lighten up, Francis." That's MY feeling/reaction to that post, which obviously using your logic I'm allowed to have and post about. Don't like it? Don't post it. Pretty simple.

To boil it down to brass tacks, the team hasn't been quiet about anything. They simply didn't give an answer of "Cade absolutely will play in Game 1" or "Cade absolutely will not play in Game 1" prior to the game. That's it. And because that's what some people wanted to hear--and let's be honest, they were only going to be happy if it was "will play"--they're irritated...because they didn't get what they wanted. Not that it was bad for Cade's well-being, not that it was bad for the team in general, not that it was bad for the team's future. It was bad for THEM, specifically their emotions only. And yep, I'll call that childish all day every day.

I realize its tough for you to see this specific situation from someone else's perspective because you are on record saying you live in the area and don't buy tickets, but there are plenty of people who had made plans to travel long distances to attend the game primarily because it was scheduled to be Cade's first career game on top of the prepackaged excitement of it being opening night.

Many of those people made financial (buying tickets, booking a room, etc) and social (time off work, planning supervision for their kids, etc) commitments to go the opener.

Cade playing or not playing played a HUGE factor in those people's decisions.

Cade's announced status of "very mild" turned ankle on October 1st, is not a deterrent to making those plans for people. But any announcement like out 3-5 weeks, out indefinitely, will be re-evaluated on October 30 (all of which could have easily applied here), would all be HUGE deterrents for people making this commitments/plans. A lot of those people, would have just aborted. Which is exactly what I did once it became clear that the team was not being anything close to transparent.

36 hours before the opener Cade gets ruled out, then almost immediately after that he gets ruled out for the upcoming road trip ( 3 more games), which is by far the earliest he has been ruled out of anything yet. A "very mild turned ankle" on October 1 doesn't get you ruled out for 4 games in Late October. It just doesn't. Either there was a setback, or the initial injury was worse than they reported.

Some People are upset because the lack of transparency effected their lives, not because the only thing that would make them happy was Cade play, while risking his long term health.

This type of situation didn't effect YOU specifically, cool. But it did effect others. So I'm fine moving forward with my "childish" emotions.

Don't be obtuse. I clearly said multiple times that anyone directly affected was justified in being irritated, and that the childish behavior label applied only to those who had no intention of attending the game. Clearly it's tough for you to see that if Action A has the same outcome as Action B in your life, there's no reason to be upset by one vs the other because the outcome for you is the same. But I get it; understanding and embracing that concept comes with maturity, and not everyone is mature. Don't like what the Pistons did? Don't buy tickets, don't buy merchandise, and don't watch the games. But don't walk into a room hollering about how horribly you've been treated as a fan by the organization and expect everyone to give you hugs and say "There, there, everything will be ok."

I'm not even going to get into the concept of whether or not anyone should be putting themselves at financial risk by getting Pistons tickets. You sure as hell don't want to open THAT Pandora's box.

[Manocad]

For the final time, I never said someone wasn't allowed to feel a certain way. I simply said that if you're going to put those feelings on social media then you are implicitly seeking a reaction. That reaction may be sympathy, and that reaction may be "Seriously, bro? THAT'S what you're pissed about and you weren't even planning on going to the game? Lighten up, Francis." That's MY feeling/reaction to that post, which obviously using your logic I'm allowed to have and post about. Don't like it? Don't post it. Pretty simple.

To boil it down to brass tacks, the team hasn't been quiet about anything. They simply didn't give an answer of "Cade absolutely will play in Game 1" or "Cade absolutely will not play in Game 1" prior to the game. That's it. And because that's what some people wanted to hear--and let's be honest, they were only going to be happy if it was "will play"--they're irritated...because they didn't get what they wanted. Not that it was bad for Cade's well-being, not that it was bad for the team in general, not that it was bad for the team's future. It was bad for THEM, specifically their emotions only. And yep, I'll call that childish all day every day.

I realize its tough for you to see this specific situation from someone else's perspective because you are on record saying you live in the area and don't buy tickets, but there are plenty of people who had made plans to travel long distances to attend the game primarily because it was scheduled to be Cade's first career game on top of the prepackaged excitement of it being opening night.

Many of those people made financial (buying tickets, booking a room, etc) and social (time off work, planning supervision for their kids, etc) commitments to go the opener.

Cade playing or not playing played a HUGE factor in those people's decisions.

Cade's announced status of "very mild" turned ankle on October 1st, is not a deterrent to making those plans for people. But any announcement like out 3-5 weeks, out indefinitely, will be re-evaluated on October 30 (all of which could have easily applied here), would all be HUGE deterrents for people making this commitments/plans. A lot of those people, would have just aborted. Which is exactly what I did once it became clear that the team was not being anything close to transparent.

36 hours before the opener Cade gets ruled out, then almost immediately after that he gets ruled out for the upcoming road trip ( 3 more games), which is by far the earliest he has been ruled out of anything yet. A "very mild turned ankle" on October 1 doesn't get you ruled out for 4 games in Late October. It just doesn't. Either there was a setback, or the initial injury was worse than they reported.

Some People are upset because the lack of transparency effected their lives, not because the only thing that would make them happy was Cade play, while risking his long term health.

This type of situation didn't effect YOU specifically, cool. But it did effect others. So I'm fine moving forward with my "childish" emotions.

To Manocad's point, I don't even think he's focusing on the people who actually did in fact go to the game thinking Cade would be playing.

The question is, are you one of those people? I've yet to see anyone in this thread (maybe I overlooked it) actually state that they fell victim to the Pistons playing it close to vest and in fact bought a ticket. So, from his perspective (farbeit for me to get in his head), if your annoyance is with falling victim to the Pistons being coy but you yourself didn't fall victim, what really are you annoyed with in the end?

*this is not me asking but providing 3rd party eyes for clarity's sake.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

I have made it ABUNDANTLY clear that the only people I'm poking fun at are the whiners who never had any intention of going to the game and weren't put out in any way. Well, other than the damage to their fragile emotions.

[Manocad]

Following this logic literally every injury would then be labelled as "out indefinitely" then to ensure correctness and avoid the "backlash". I mean, we'd always be correct then. That's a good thing right?

My goodness.

Following your logic of doctors can't predict the future, things change, new information comes in, setbacks happen why do teams even bother putting any kind of timeline on any injury?

Yet every professional sports team does, the vast majority of the time.

Besides, when Cade got hurt Detroit's timeline was "he's not expected to miss the pre-season opener." Yet he we are 3 weeks later and Cade missed the entire preseason and will miss at least the first 4 regular season games.

They put out timelines based on the best and most current information available. And for Cade that has meant at times his prognosis has changed as his evaluated condition has changed. People recover differently from injury. Evaluations change based on changing conditions during this process.

How is this so hard for people to grasp?

Simple answer...because it's not what some people wanted to hear. Can't get any plainer than that.

[whitehops]

And just let me point out the complete irony that just a few posts ago you were suggesting that the Pistons would have been better off saying he is out indefinitely . That is the exact opposite of a tangible return target. W.T.F.

out indefinitely in injury talk essentially means "out for a while but we're not sure how long". based on all the injury reports i've seen across different sports i usually take "out indefinitely" to mean 3-4 weeks or longer, depending on what the injury designation attached is.

it is ironic by the literal definition of the word, i agree.

[whitehops]

Read on Twitter

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Read on Twitter

it's weird that they're talking so openly about injuries.

[Manocad]

it's weird that they're talking so openly about injuries.

What's weirder is people being upset by whether or not they talk about it.

I got 99 problems but a Pistons player not talking 'bout his injury ain't one...

[whitehops]

^^^ The label of "sprain" has never been connected to Cade's ankle tho.

just stumbled upon this: https://ak-static.cms.nba.com/referee/injury/Injury-Report_2021-10-20_04PM.pdf

so the pistons officially labeled him having a sprained ankle with the league, but not with the fans.

[thesack12]

Why does that make it sound more serious? Something isn't right with all this.

Hey, didn't you know that players carrying "day to day" status are ruled out for the next 3 games (10 days) well ahead of time. "Day to Day" players also don't even make road trips either.

That's "week to week" status at best.

All of this started with an announcement of "Very mild" turned ankle on October 1st.

Its blatantly obvious the team has been holding back info this entire time.

i wonder what it could be though. he was never in a boot (from all the media stuff posted), he's been at practice for a while now just doing light shooting and shed his ankle brace like a week ago already. any ligament damage is unlikely otherwise he wouldn't have even been on the court all this time.

just wild speculation on my part but maybe the medical staff had concerns about his long-term ankle health. guys like steph curry and tobias harris had chronic ankle issues at the beginning of their careers and missed a lot of games because of it. i didn't think anything of it earlier but cade did miss the last two preseason games with "calf soreness", and the calf (and the muscles on the sides and front of your shin) are the primary muscles for ankle strength. maybe they're just getting his ankle strength up as a preventative measure?

also, my friend injured his retinaculum (like a band that goes overtop your ankle) and it was pretty debilitating til it healed up. he could exercise up to a certain point but then it was very painful.

lots of possibilities, but it's obviously not just a very mild ankle turn. oh well, no information leads to speculation

That last sentence is at the crux if this entire situation, and yes its entirely obvious that whatever the issue is it was definitely not a very mild turned ankle.

It could also be be some sort of problem with the bursa sacs in his ankle. Those types of issues tend to last weeks at a time. Back in high school my buddy ruptured one of the bursas in his ankle, and he couldn't even bend his ankle for several days after.

Whatever the case may be, the team could have approached the situation better.

[Manocad]

^^^ The label of "sprain" has never been connected to Cade's ankle tho.

just stumbled upon this: https://ak-static.cms.nba.com/referee/injury/Injury-Report_2021-10-20_04PM.pdf

so the pistons officially labeled him having a sprained ankle with the league, but not with the fans.

And how DARE they NOT TELL THE FANS?!?!?

[thesack12]

^^^ The label of "sprain" has never been connected to Cade's ankle tho.

just stumbled upon this: https://ak-static.cms.nba.com/referee/injury/Injury-Report_2021-10-20_04PM.pdf

so the pistons officially labeled him having a sprained ankle with the league, but not with the fans.

Hmm, imagine that

[thesack12]

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it's weird that they're talking so openly about injuries.

Funny how that works, huh?

A professional sports team providing timelines for injured players, in some cases superstar players even. Who'd a thunk it?

I guess some team's and their doctors can "predict the future" and aren't concerned with circumstances potentially changing and effecting said timelines.

[zeebneeb]

I'm just glad i held off on buying any tickets, preseason or otherwise after hearing about this. I was very close to pulling the trigger on the preseason opener. I'm irritated, but had i purchased tickets based off the Pistons medical reports, I would have been pissed.

Nothing wrong with being clear to the fans, who spend good money on tickets to see a particular player, what's going on.

All I know is that I'll wait until its a virtual lock that Cade is playing, until I buy some tickets.

[Manocad]

I'm just glad i held off on buying any tickets, preseason or otherwise after hearing about this. I was very close to pulling the trigger on the preseason opener. I'm irritated, but had i purchased tickets based off the Pistons medical reports, I would have been pissed.

Nothing wrong with being clear to the fans, who spend good money on tickets to see a particular player, what's going on.

All I know is that I'll wait until its a virtual lock that Cade is playing, until I buy some tickets.

Certainly it's a better look to be clear to the fans who spend the money to go see the team. But those who don't then want to bitch about the optics? Lighten up, Francis. That's all I'm sayin'.