Should anyone besides Cade be "untouchable"?

[Cowology]

Coming into last season the big question was whether Cade/Ivey were good enough 3pt shooters to play together. It was a legit concern, especially given how terrible the rest of our roster was. Cade has sorta hovered around 35.5% the past 2 seasons which is at the low end of playable. Ivey meanwhile pushed himself from 33.6 to 40.9% prior to injury.

At this point I'm fairly confidant they can play together offensively and should compliment each other well.

Defensively I do not like it. I would rather start Cade/Ausar/Ron and bring in Ivey in that Manu/Derrick White/Jamal Crawford type role. I don't actually think Ron is ready to start though, so maybe THj for 1 more year?

[jars]

I voted for Ausar because I don't think a team would pay the price that I would accept back. I feel like he has the potential to be a perennial fringe DPOY contender and those guys aren't easy to find. We just gotta hope his shot development is better than Tony Allen's. Even if he is traded, he would be the core piece of a package for a legitimate star.

[Canadafan]

Coming into last season the big question was whether Cade/Ivey were good enough 3pt shooters to play together. It was a legit concern, especially given how terrible the rest of our roster was. Cade has sorta hovered around 35.5% the past 2 seasons which is at the low end of playable. Ivey meanwhile pushed himself from 33.6 to 40.9% prior to injury.

At this point I'm fairly confidant they can play together offensively and should compliment each other well.

Defensively I do not like it. I would rather start Cade/Ausar/Ron and bring in Ivey in that Manu/Derrick White/Jamal Crawford type role. I don't actually think Ron is ready to start though, so maybe THj for 1 more year?

That would be bad spacing unless ausar or Holland figure out how to shoot

[Kalamazoo317]

I voted for Ausar because I don't think a team would pay the price that I would accept back. I feel like he has the potential to be a perennial fringe DPOY contender and those guys aren't easy to find. We just gotta hope his shot development is better than Tony Allen's. Even if he is traded, he would be the core piece of a package for a legitimate star.

I voted for both Ausar and Stew for this reason. I think they're the ones least likely to get a return that would feel "worth it" to me. I also think our current identity and chances for success hinge a lot on putting really fierce, competitive defense around Cade, and those two are the drivers for that.

Maybe a better question should be "who's the most tradeable"? I imagine most people would have Tech and Sasser first, then largely Tobias, Ivey, and Duren in some order.

[Billl]

Unless you are a top 5 type guy, nobody is untouchable. That's doesn't mean we are shopping any of them, but realistically, none are even close to sniffing an all-star nod at this point.

[Snakebites]

I'll just take a moment to complain about how useless the percentage function of this poll is when you allow people to select multiple options (which was necessary for this type of poll).

It's not tracking what percentage of people checked a particular box. It's counting what percentage of total clicks there were for a given box.

For instance, if only one person has voted and they selected all 6 players as untouchable, it would simply say 16.66667 percent for every one of them.

Baffling design. Ugh.

[NYPiston]

Love Ausar but he's definitely expendable in the right deal. To me "untouchable" is a really big deal, has to be a franchise player, Ausar for all his good qualities is far from that if he never learns how to shoot a jump shot.
My answer is it's Cade the obvious untouchable and everybody else can be had for the right price.

[NYPiston]

GreekAlex is right. We likely won't get good value because folks undervalue our players in general.

.

I don't think that's the case anymore. This season went a long way in getting these guys positive exposure and especially the playoff series. Ivey I don't know about but I bet Ausar and Duren's value went up exponentially.
With that said, I'd be shocked if any of these guys go anywhere right now although none outside of Holland are Langdon guys so I can't rule it out completely.

If I'm to rank players on who I'd least want to trade outside of Cade, it would be....

1) Ausar - Has the biggest impact on winning, guy just makes winning plays
2) Stew - See Ausar. Stew has improved immensely in the role that we all, outside of the coaches apparently, thought he was best suited for and his salary makes him a bargain. Plus he's a big culture guy although he needs to cut down on the maniac tendencies
3) Ivey - The most polished offensively of the young supporting core and a vital player to alleviate ballhandling duties from Cade. I fully believe we win this series if Ivey was healthy, the offense struggled a ton in the half court with so much attention on Cade. Schroder was admirable in the role but the Pistons really lacked an athletic ballhandler that could consistently break down the Knicks defense
4) Holland - Taking a leap of faith with his potential. Right now he's raw but he's the prototypical player you want at the 3/4 if he develops a consistent jumper
5) Duren - No doubt he showed improvements but a 5 that doesn't defend the perimeter particularly well, doesn't shoot from outside the paint and still has lapses with rim defending kind of limits your team unless there's a strong 4 to flank him which, with all due respect to Tobias, needs a serious upgrade. I know he has chemistry with Cade but he's the most expendable of the young core for me. Guys like Duren are the easiest to replace IMO.

[Kalamazoo317]

Here's a good barometer for how "untouchable" people think Ausar is ... would you include him in a trade if you got Giannis back?

[Snakebites]

Coming into last season the big question was whether Cade/Ivey were good enough 3pt shooters to play together. It was a legit concern, especially given how terrible the rest of our roster was. Cade has sorta hovered around 35.5% the past 2 seasons which is at the low end of playable. Ivey meanwhile pushed himself from 33.6 to 40.9% prior to injury.

At this point I'm fairly confidant they can play together offensively and should compliment each other well.

Defensively I do not like it. I would rather start Cade/Ausar/Ron and bring in Ivey in that Manu/Derrick White/Jamal Crawford type role. I don't actually think Ron is ready to start though, so maybe THj for 1 more year?

That would be bad spacing unless ausar or Holland figure out how to shoot

Cade/Ausar/Ron…

That’s not Cade/Killian/Ausar bad but it’s in that ball park shooting wise. Yikes. That’s what Monty would do with this current group.

And as a unit I think that tops out as a pretty below average shooting unit even with optimistic projections for Ausar and Ron. It’s why I think we should trade one.

If Beasley or Ivey aren’t starting we need to add a shooter who will be. And probably not keep Beasley. I don’t think there’s enough minutes if neither Ivey nor Beasley are starting.

[MortSahlfan]

Ivey can't run an offense.. He has never been double/triple teamed (was constantly left open to shoot 3s), and averaged almost as many turnovers and assists (3 TO - 4 asts) and the offense was on Cade's shoulders. And he holds on to the ball too long, can't make quick decisions, and we were better on both ends without him. And he's HORRIBLE on defense.

Ivey is the guy to trade.

[tmorgan]

Ivey can't run an offense.. He has never been double/triple teamed (was constantly left open to shoot 3s), and averaged almost as many turnovers and assists (3 TO - 4 asts) and the offense was on Cade's shoulders. And he holds on to the ball too long, can't make quick decisions, and we were better on both ends without him. And he's HORRIBLE on defense.

Ivey is the guy to trade.

This is even further than I’ll go about Ivey, but the conclusion is the same. Let him get healthy, hopefully he looks reasonably good, and then look around for a bigger guy you can trade him for. Jabari Smith Jr. is a fine target. He’s a limited player in that he can’t dribble or create for himself worth a damn, but he’s a good defender, solid rebounder, and has range for a 4. He’s a helluva nice fit here.

To avoid the drama (and make sure it gets done), I’d even do it today and offer a small sweetener. Problem is, Houston still has too many guards. They’d need to move FVV’s expiring and/or Jalen Green’s overpaid ass to have any interest, and they still need to see what they have in Reed Sheppard.

[MrBigShot]

No. But Ausar is pretty close to untouchable.

[Snakebites]

I'm proud of what this team managed to accomplish this year. But I generally think it's a mistake to get overly attached to anyone. This team had an undeniable turnaround and we were a much better team this year.

But we were also the beneficiary of some conference injuries and just the general weakness of the east- I'm not sure this team makes the play-in if they have to play in the west. That's not to disparage what we have. But I still see holes, I still see fit issues. And I bet TL sees them too. This isn't our teams' final form.

There definitely is a big part of me that wonders what this teams true ceiling is with the guys we have, but I still suspect it's not a contender. Changes will be made, whether this year or another year.

[jars]

Here's a good barometer for how "untouchable" people think Ausar is ... would you include him in a trade if you got Giannis back?

Yes.

As much as I love Ausar, his best game is Giannis' below average game. Would you trade Ausar if you got Booker back?

[Cowology]

Here's a good barometer for how "untouchable" people think Ausar is ... would you include him in a trade if you got Giannis back?

Yes.

As much as I love Ausar, his best game is Giannis' below average game. Would you trade Ausar if you got Booker back?

I had to stop and think about the Booker thing...but "yes". I would. As much as it kills me, Booker & Cade would be bonkers. And the fact we'd presumably still have Ron make that more palpable.

Reality is Cade/Ausar/Ron are not a great fit. Non of them are great shootors in a league currently built around shooting. You replace either of those wings with Booker and we are demonstratively better balanced AND get the 1b people want.

[MrBigShot]

Cade & Booker would be as great a fit as it gets. Booker gets a PG who can handle primary playmaking duties, and Cade gets a second creator who is one of the best passers at his position. I'd give up basically anyone outside of Cade to get Booker.

[tmorgan]

The only negative on Booker’s fit is his shot profile, which is a little too close to Cade’s for my liking. Both can shoot threes, but neither does it at high volume or with elite accuracy. Both are midrange maestros, albeit from a little further out for Book because he isn’t as long as Cade.

Wouldn’t stop me if the price was right, though. Phoenix would need to think Ausar was most of the value (over half), or value Ivey enough (less than half, but close). I doubt we could sell them on Ivey unless they believe he can be a PG, which is hella iffy given what we’ve seen.

Options, then:

1) Ausar + Ivey + filler salary, no picks
2) Ausar + 26 #1 (unprotected) + something minor + filler salary
3) Ivey + 26 #1 (unprotected) + 28 #1 (top 4 protected) + something minor + filler salary

(primary fillers or minor stuff can be Tek, Sasser, S&T’d THJ, perhaps Klintman or TOR#2 this year)

Don’t know if any of those gets Booker. #3 would be my choice (no shock to anyone here, I know), followed by #1. Trading them both makes Ron either a starter at SF next year or requires another deal — we can’t call ourselves serious starting THJ again. If we still have our picks from doing the first one, a follow-up deal would likely happen.

[Kalamazoo317]

I also think you need an elite defensive stopper to win at the highest levels and we have that with Ausar, whereas Booker isn't that.

[Snakebites]

I also think you need an elite defensive stopper to win at the highest levels and we have that with Ausar, whereas Booker isn't that.

Sure. That still doesn’t change the fact that Booker is much better and more valuable than Ausar.

It’s irrelevant- Booker almost certainly won’t be available. But I frankly think some of our young players are starting to be overvalued by our fanbase.