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BDM22 wrote:Tobias ends his Philly career with 0 points in 30 minutes in a win-or-go-home playoff game. Now to sign him for 4 years $140M

3 years $60 million is starting to feel like too much for him. I don’t think anyone but Detroit offers more than MLE. I don’t think Philly wants him back at all.

bstein14 wrote:

BDM22 wrote:Tobias ends his Philly career with 0 points in 30 minutes in a win-or-go-home playoff game. Now to sign him for 4 years $140M

3 years $60 million is starting to feel like too much for him. I don’t think anyone but Detroit offers more than MLE. I don’t think Philly wants him back at all.

Yeah, I'm fine if we sign him (rather him than the Lavine deal), but I don't want it to be more than 2 years to use as an expiring contract in trades the following season.

Signing Harris would be a signal that the team still doesn't know what its doing.

No value at all. Tek is a better overall player, just resign him.

zeebneeb wrote:Signing Harris would be a signal that the team still doesn't know what its doing.

No value at all. Tek is a better overall player, just resign him.

Well I think Tek re-signing is assumed in all of this. Anyone who would take Tobias over him at this point is crazy. Still need another forward that can score and isn't a Bojan level defender.

If Weaver still has any power going into free agency, he will sign Patrick Williams.

We all now how much Troy loves him some 2020 draft, well the bad players in it anyways. There was a ton of talk about how much he liked Williams going into that draft, so the inevitable outcome will be Patrick Williams becoming the Troy's next bad move to acquire a 2020 classmen.

I'm kind of glad Tobias didn't have a good playoffs, this means we're less likely to overpay for his services. I wouldn't mind Tobias on a 15-20M per year deal for 2-3 years. He's still a good player.

BDM22 wrote:

zeebneeb wrote:Signing Harris would be a signal that the team still doesn't know what its doing.

No value at all. Tek is a better overall player, just resign him.

Well I think Tek re-signing is assumed in all of this. Anyone who would take Tobias over him at this point is crazy. Still need another forward that can score and isn't a Bojan level defender.

I’d assume Tek is back no matter who else we sign.

Does it matter that Tobias sucks in the playoffs? Who thinks we’ll be seeing those in the next 2 years? Who thinks we’d have a shot at winning a series in the next 3?

I hope we don’t overpay him or give him a long deal though. 2 years without a crazy salary number wouldn’t make me too upset.

Of the teams that have money……..

Philly looks like it’s going to chase a superstar
Utah….. Danny Ainge won’t overpay anyone
OKC…… they might get a big, but they have their own players to pay
SA……… they’ll probably get a point guard, but they’re pretty frugal

So we’re really bidding against ourselves in a lot of cases. MLE’s starting at 13 million. Two year, $30 million contracts seem to be the ticket. Get four of them……

JennetteMcCurdy wrote:Of the teams that have money……..

Philly looks like it’s going to chase a superstar
Utah….. Danny Ainge won’t overpay anyone
OKC…… they might get a big, but they have their own players to pay
SA……… they’ll probably get a point guard, but they’re pretty frugal

So we’re really bidding against ourselves in a lot of cases. MLE’s starting at 13 million. Two year, $30 million contracts seem to be the ticket. Get four of them……

Yesss. I've said that before. I'd rather overpay MLE level guys and get a deep team instead of overpaying 2 high salaried guys

Canadafan wrote:

JennetteMcCurdy wrote:Of the teams that have money……..

Philly looks like it’s going to chase a superstar
Utah….. Danny Ainge won’t overpay anyone
OKC…… they might get a big, but they have their own players to pay
SA……… they’ll probably get a point guard, but they’re pretty frugal

So we’re really bidding against ourselves in a lot of cases. MLE’s starting at 13 million. Two year, $30 million contracts seem to be the ticket. Get four of them……

Yesss. I've said that before. I'd rather overpay MLE level guys and get a deep team instead of overpaying 2 high salaried guys

I think you'll be disappointed to see the caliber of player who will get the MLE this offseason.

People are ragging on Tobias given his performance in the playoffs which is fair. But he would walk onto our current roster as the second best player easily. That's nothing to brag about, but it would be good to infuse some talent (at a position of need also). We need some floor raising players - can't keep winning less than 20 games per year and remaining the laughingstock of the league.

I think we sign him, overpay Monk or KCP and roll out a rotation of:

Duren/Stewart
Harris/Ausar
Fontecchio/Grimes
Monk or KCP/Ivey
Cade/Sasser or MLE player

First round pick not included yet as awaiting draft lottery. It depends on the internal development, health and coaching, but I could see that team getting 30 wins which would be an upward trajectory from where we currently stand.

Snakebites wrote:

Canadafan wrote:

JennetteMcCurdy wrote:Of the teams that have money……..

Philly looks like it’s going to chase a superstar
Utah….. Danny Ainge won’t overpay anyone
OKC…… they might get a big, but they have their own players to pay
SA……… they’ll probably get a point guard, but they’re pretty frugal

So we’re really bidding against ourselves in a lot of cases. MLE’s starting at 13 million. Two year, $30 million contracts seem to be the ticket. Get four of them……

Yesss. I've said that before. I'd rather overpay MLE level guys and get a deep team instead of overpaying 2 high salaried guys

I think you'll be disappointed to see the caliber of player who will get the MLE this offseason.

If you could just push yourself to make one positive comment, just one, I believe that could turn into a series of positive comments and possibly change your life in a meaningful way

Mr Peanut wrote:People are ragging on Tobias given his performance in the playoffs which is fair. But he would walk onto our current roster as the second best player easily. That's nothing to brag about, but it would be good to infuse some talent (at a position of need also). We need some floor raising players - can't keep winning less than 20 games per year and remaining the laughingstock of the league.

I think we sign him, overpay Monk or KCP and roll out a rotation of:

Duren/Stewart
Harris/Ausar
Fontecchio/Grimes
Monk or KCP/Ivey
Cade/Sasser or MLE player

First round pick not included yet as awaiting draft lottery. It depends on the internal development, health and coaching, but I could see that team getting 30 wins which would be an upward trajectory from where we currently stand.

I love that kinda positivity

Obi Toppin or Jalen Smith? What's the likelihood of grabbing one of these guys. Which ones more likely?
Overpay to get one of them and then overpay to get Monk or Tyus.
My new obsession of getting Tyus here is in part due to the genius of our very own Troy Weaver who previously tried to get Brunson to pair with Cade. Had to settle for CoJo. Then trade for Monte Morris. Which was a failure. But his idea of getting us an actual true point guard has me thinking he would try for Tyus.
He averaged 12pts 7.5ast 3rbs 1.1stl with only 1turnover per game whilst playing 29minutes.
Shot 49%fg 41.5%3pt
His usage rate was only 16%!

We would be 2deep at every position and set up nicely for the future

Duren30 Stew18
Toppin30 Fontecchio18
Ausar30 Rookie18
Ivey30 Cade12 Grimes or Sasser6
Cade18 Tyus30
Or
Cade12 Ivey30 Grimes or Sasser6
Tyus30 Cade18

Let’s not overpay anybody - we stink.

There are going to be so many opportunities to pick up players and picks this summer - only Troy could screw it up. He did last year - he took $21 million off the table for two measly second round picks.

Lots of teams are going to offer Detroit players plus picks. Why? Because Detroit has the money! Look at the Clippers - they made huge trades for Harden and George - now it’s time to pay them. And they’re already over the apron. Powell? Mann? They’ll be available. And both those guys can SHOOT. Lots more - Miami, Milwaukee, Boston - teams that will need to shed some depth to keep the rest paid.

Our cap space is so valuable- I can only hope someone like Presti and not like Weaver is in charge of it. Presti would take a player with a couple picks and trade him for more picks in a matter of weeks. Examples - Horford and Walker. Weaver is probably looking at Ben Simmons and his $40 million expiring and thinking he’ll pick up a second rounder or two. I’ll go vomit now.

JennetteMcCurdy wrote:Let’s not overpay anybody - we stink.

There are going to be so many opportunities to pick up players and picks this summer - only Troy could screw it up. He did last year - he took $21 million off the table for two measly second round picks.

Lots of teams are going to offer Detroit players plus picks. Why? Because Detroit has the money! Look at the Clippers - they made huge trades for Harden and George - now it’s time to pay them. And they’re already over the apron. Powell? Mann? They’ll be available. And both those guys can SHOOT. Lots more - Miami, Milwaukee, Boston - teams that will need to shed some depth to keep the rest paid.

Our cap space is so valuable- I can only hope someone like Presti and not like Weaver is in charge of it. Presti would take a player with a couple picks and trade him for more picks in a matter of weeks. Examples - Horford and Walker. Weaver is probably looking at Ben Simmons and his $40 million expiring and thinking he’ll pick up a second rounder or two. I’ll go vomit now.

The part always ignored about Horford and Walker is that OKC gave up a proven, playoff starting 3&D wing at the time (Danny Green) in addition to taking on Horford's bloated money. It was more like if we traded Fontecchio to a team for a bloated contract in return and got a late 1st for it. Meh...

And then Kemba was $73M of totally dead money for multiple years and they got a Boston 1st to take that on. We literally got Boston's 1st rounder last year for TWO 2nd round picks! lol

I absolutely do not see that as a better option than using that cap space on useful players that have trade value like Weaver did with Jerami Grant (and got an actual lotto pick for him in the end).

Now, where OKC has an advantage is they can (and basically have to) trade those kinds of picks forward for better/more picks because they already have a war chest of picks from trading ALL-NBA talent in their primes like Paul George and Westbrook. This is the real difference here. The Pistons can't really acquire extra picks like the Sasser, Duren, Stew, Bey picks and kick them forward to future drafts where they might be more favorable or you can get teams to sweeten the pot with extra picks. They're desperate for talent now. And that's because they started with literal negative assets.

That's why I've been saying I'd be fine blowing it all up (including Cade) to get that future pick capital and THEN start going for the deals for extra picks you can start flipping forward by taking bad contracts or by signing players to reasonable contracts, boosting their value, and trading them. It sucks to keep sucking, but I think that's the only realistic way I see out of this asset deficit we're in compared to every other rebuilding team. This draft being so horrible has put me further into that camp.

BDM22 wrote:

JennetteMcCurdy wrote:Let’s not overpay anybody - we stink.

There are going to be so many opportunities to pick up players and picks this summer - only Troy could screw it up. He did last year - he took $21 million off the table for two measly second round picks.

Lots of teams are going to offer Detroit players plus picks. Why? Because Detroit has the money! Look at the Clippers - they made huge trades for Harden and George - now it’s time to pay them. And they’re already over the apron. Powell? Mann? They’ll be available. And both those guys can SHOOT. Lots more - Miami, Milwaukee, Boston - teams that will need to shed some depth to keep the rest paid.

Our cap space is so valuable- I can only hope someone like Presti and not like Weaver is in charge of it. Presti would take a player with a couple picks and trade him for more picks in a matter of weeks. Examples - Horford and Walker. Weaver is probably looking at Ben Simmons and his $40 million expiring and thinking he’ll pick up a second rounder or two. I’ll go vomit now.

The part always ignored about Horford and Walker is that OKC gave up a proven, playoff starting 3&D wing at the time (Danny Green) in addition to taking on Horford's bloated money. It was more like if we traded Fontecchio to a team for a bloated contract in return and got a late 1st for it. Meh...

And then Kemba was $73M of totally dead money for multiple years and they got a Boston 1st to take that on. We literally got Boston's 1st rounder last year for TWO 2nd round picks! lol

I absolutely do not see that as a better option than using that cap space on useful players that have trade value like Weaver did with Jerami Grant (and got an actual lotto pick for him in the end).

Now, where OKC has an advantage is they can trade those kinds of picks forward for better/more picks because they already have a war chest of picks from trading ALL-NBA talent in their primes like Paul George and Westbrook. This is the real difference here. The Pistons can't really acquire extra picks like the Sasser, Duren, Stew, Bey picks and kick them forward to future drafts where they might be more favorable or you can get teams to sweeten the pot. They're desperate for talent now. And that's because they started with literal negative assets.

That's why I've been saying I'd be fine blowing it all up (including Cade) to get that future pick capital and THEN start going for the deals for picks you can start flipping forward by taking bad contracts or by signing players to reasonable contracts, boosting their value, and trading them. It sucks to keep sucking, but I think that's the only realistic way I see out of this asset deficit we're in compared to every other rebuilding team.

Good points on the OKC comparison. But I’d hate to start from scratch on a rebuild.

I also think our team’s goals were different last season and only wanted 1 year deals so we would maximize our cap space this summer. So I don’t see that as a predictor for this offseason. I think we’re all in to bring in some real talent this year.

Philly and OKC will likely get any stars on the move, like Paul George or KD. We don’t need to try and outbid them. I don’t want us throwing out $40M+ on contracts and don’t want us signing guys over 30 years old. 25-30 is the sweet spot.

Monk seems like an obvious target. Resigning Fontecchio is an obvious move. Miles Bridges seems to make sense although he seems to be not as good before his suspension. Even if we did all that, and added a top 5 draft pick, we could still use one more solid starter - two way wing that can shoot. Everyone else wants that too so it won’t be easy.

If we get this done, including that last unknown 3&D guy, we should have a much better roster than last year, no “bad” contracts, and a lot of roster flexibility. The combination of all that lets us be players at the in-season trade deadline.

BDM22 wrote:

JennetteMcCurdy wrote:Let’s not overpay anybody - we stink.

There are going to be so many opportunities to pick up players and picks this summer - only Troy could screw it up. He did last year - he took $21 million off the table for two measly second round picks.

Lots of teams are going to offer Detroit players plus picks. Why? Because Detroit has the money! Look at the Clippers - they made huge trades for Harden and George - now it’s time to pay them. And they’re already over the apron. Powell? Mann? They’ll be available. And both those guys can SHOOT. Lots more - Miami, Milwaukee, Boston - teams that will need to shed some depth to keep the rest paid.

Our cap space is so valuable- I can only hope someone like Presti and not like Weaver is in charge of it. Presti would take a player with a couple picks and trade him for more picks in a matter of weeks. Examples - Horford and Walker. Weaver is probably looking at Ben Simmons and his $40 million expiring and thinking he’ll pick up a second rounder or two. I’ll go vomit now.

The part always ignored about Horford and Walker is that OKC gave up a proven, playoff starting 3&D wing at the time (Danny Green) in addition to taking on Horford's bloated money. It was more like if we traded Fontecchio to a team for a bloated contract in return and got a late 1st for it. Meh...

And then Kemba was $73M of totally dead money for multiple years and they got a Boston 1st to take that on. We literally got Boston's 1st rounder last year for TWO 2nd round picks! lol

I absolutely do not see that as a better option than using that cap space on useful players that have trade value like Weaver did with Jerami Grant (and got an actual lotto pick for him in the end).

Now, where OKC has an advantage is they can (and basically have to) trade those kinds of picks forward for better/more picks because they already have a war chest of picks from trading ALL-NBA talent in their primes like Paul George and Westbrook. This is the real difference here. The Pistons can't really acquire extra picks like the Sasser, Duren, Stew, Bey picks and kick them forward to future drafts where they might be more favorable or you can get teams to sweeten the pot with extra picks. They're desperate for talent now. And that's because they started with literal negative assets.

That's why I've been saying I'd be fine blowing it all up (including Cade) to get that future pick capital and THEN start going for the deals for extra picks you can start flipping forward by taking bad contracts or by signing players to reasonable contracts, boosting their value, and trading them. It sucks to keep sucking, but I think that's the only realistic way I see out of this asset deficit we're in compared to every other rebuilding team. This draft being so horrible has put me further into that camp.

This has to be one of the most honest and logical posts I’ve read on here for a while.

Something I don’t think many actually question, how good is Cade really? I don’t think he’ll ever be a top 20 player in the league and if that’s who we are trying to ride to the playoffs it’s not going to be enough unless getting swept in the 1st round is the goal. We have been massively screws by the lottery multiple years but that aside, weaver failed to collect assets and overvalued his own guys. Bojan should have been traded pretty early on in his tenure here when he was shining before he got hurt but weaver like always overvalued an ageing player and look what happen. Gut the front office, and gut the roster, and let’s build for a fugue we can actually be excited for!

Snakebites wrote:

BDM22 wrote:

zeebneeb wrote:Signing Harris would be a signal that the team still doesn't know what its doing.

No value at all. Tek is a better overall player, just resign him.

Well I think Tek re-signing is assumed in all of this. Anyone who would take Tobias over him at this point is crazy. Still need another forward that can score and isn't a Bojan level defender.

I’d assume Tek is back no matter who else we sign.

Does it matter that Tobias sucks in the playoffs? Who thinks we’ll be seeing those in the next 2 years? Who thinks we’d have a shot at winning a series in the next 3?

I hope we don’t overpay him or give him a long deal though. 2 years without a crazy salary number wouldn’t make me too upset.

Lets be fair. Tobias sucked (especially for what he was paid) in the regular season too.

Kalamazoo317 wrote:

Snakebites wrote:

BDM22 wrote:Well I think Tek re-signing is assumed in all of this. Anyone who would take Tobias over him at this point is crazy. Still need another forward that can score and isn't a Bojan level defender.

I’d assume Tek is back no matter who else we sign.

Does it matter that Tobias sucks in the playoffs? Who thinks we’ll be seeing those in the next 2 years? Who thinks we’d have a shot at winning a series in the next 3?

I hope we don’t overpay him or give him a long deal though. 2 years without a crazy salary number wouldn’t make me too upset.

Lets be fair. Tobias sucked (especially for what he was paid) in the regular season too.

He made 40 million this year. Fans should riot if we give him that.