Around the League

[Snakebites]

joe harris announced his retirement. add him to the list of guys that were out of the league the year after weaver acquired them.

Yep. We paid him 19 mill last year.

But the second rounders we received really made it all feel worth it.

[chrbal]

joe harris announced his retirement. add him to the list of guys that were out of the league the year after weaver acquired them.

Weaver acquiring Harris was the trade that ended any faith I had left in Weaver. We paid $19.9 million to get 16 games out of Harris, a Mavs 2nd in ‘27, and a Bucks 2nd in ‘29.

I expected more out of Harris, but more just the idea of him being healthy and being a decent 10th man type. Not really anything significant.

As far as Weavers other trades like that, Alec Burks at least contributed, Walker got us Duren, and Tony Bradley got us an extra second round pick (Saben Lee, didn’t work out, but rebuilding teams need to get any extra picks they can get).

Blocked us from signing anyone worthwhile, gift wrapped it for the Nets to keep Cam Johnson (a player who made sense for Detroit), and blocked us from getting anymore salary dump with asset trades since that was the direction we went in

[Crymson]

Weaver's entire management tenure was characterized by rash gambles. He decided to veer drastically off the beaten path, a decision which wasn't inherently bad because of its divergence from the norm but rather failed because his gambles were chronic, multitudinous, and stupid. Blowing $20 million of cap space on Harris was the product of three of those gambles, none of which had any significant chance of succeeding: that Stewart could be a reasonable starting power forward, even though Isaiah completely lacks the mobility to play the position; that Livers would be healthy and reliably contribute, even though he'd been regularly injured; and that Ausar could provide decent minutes, even though he'd genuinely been a zero-level halfcourt scorer against far easier competition in OTE.

For that matter, there may have been a fourth gamble in there: that Bagley or Wiseman, both of them reclamation projects and neither of them proven to any degree, could play well enough at backup center that Stewart wouldn't need to end up back there -- though perhaps not, since Weaver had apparently already decided, in full defiance of reality, that Stewart was a power forward and that the Stewart - Duren duo was a viable experiment.

And he thus blew $20 million of cap space for two second-round picks and a player who was washed up beyond any hope of providing value, and the Pistons headed into the season without anything even remotely resembling reliable depth at forward and exactly zero honest-to-goodness power forwards on the roster. Woohoo.

[bstein14]

It was immediately clear that Weaver big time missed on the Hayes pick. Those first few games before he got injured he looked no where close to even being a fringe NBA player and he was literally gifted the starting role. ..... Also his first moves of giving away Kennard/Brown and then absorbing contracts to waive and stretch were pretty head scratching.

That said, Weaver seemingly did ok with the Grant/Plumlee FA signings and also ok with his later picks Bey and Stewart showed some promise. Overall it was a mixed bag but I think year one you still had to have some decent faith in what we were doing. Then then tanking worked and we lucked into the #1 overall pick in a strong draft and got Cade so summer 2021 I think most were riding pretty high on the Weaver train. I didn't really start to sour until the Bagley contract (he got swindled pretty good by Cade's agent on that one) and picking up a fairly high $$ option on Hayes without even making him play in Summer league to see some progression. Then the Wiseman trade really didn't fit at all with Stew, Bagley, and Duren already up front.... some of the uses of massive amounts of cap space for a few crap seconds also really set us back versus actually spending that space on good value FAs. Overall by the time summer 2023 came along it very much felt make or break for Weaver and he went broke on the Morris and Harris trades with our cap space.

[Snakebites]

It was immediately clear that Weaver big time missed on the Hayes pick. Those first few games before he got injured he looked no where close to even being a fringe NBA player and he was literally gifted the starting role. .....

That was rough. People always said “don’t judge the guy on those few games”, and yes that’s the conventional wisdom. But in this case those few games in retrospect told us EVERYTHING we needed to know about the guy.

[Crymson]

That was rough. People always said “don’t judge the guy on those few games”, and yes that’s the conventional wisdom. But in this case those few games in retrospect told us EVERYTHING we needed to know about the guy.

To be fair, he had about as comically small a role as a player can have: Casey had him bring the ball up to just past halfcourt, pass it to Griffin, and then stand at the perimeter while Griffin went to work (and generally completely ignored Killian). He got injured just as Casey was finally starting to give him some real, honest-to-goodness responsibility.

The really terrifying part for me was when he returned from injury and, as a pick-and-roll-focused guard, was the worst pick-and-roll guard in the league in the last quarter of the season. And then when he showed up for Summer League and looked terrible against bad opposition. And then when he came into the season and still looked terrible. His chronically undermining habit of completely avoiding contact when he had the ball became instantly clear in the first month of his sophomore season, and it rapidly became apparent in the early stages of that season that he was an absolute nightmare overall on offense to a degree that is uncommon for any NBA player.

Though this is by no means said in the vein of "I told you so," I've got to say that the sheer number of hardcore apologies made for the guy over the course of his tenure with the Pistons is something I've never seen elsewhere for as brutally ineffective an NBA player as Killian was.

[chrbal]

That was rough. People always said “don’t judge the guy on those few games”, and yes that’s the conventional wisdom. But in this case those few games in retrospect told us EVERYTHING we needed to know about the guy.

To be fair, he had about as comically small a role as a player can have: Casey had him bring the ball up to just past halfcourt, pass it to Griffin, and then stand at the perimeter while Griffin went to work (and generally completely ignored Killian). He got injured just as Casey was finally starting to give him some real, honest-to-goodness responsibility.

The really terrifying part for me was when he returned from injury and, as a pick-and-roll-focused guard, was the worst pick-and-roll guard in the league in the last quarter of the season. And then when he showed up for Summer League and looked terrible against bad opposition. And then when he came into the season and still looked terrible. His chronically undermining habit of completely avoiding contact when he had the ball became instantly clear in the first month of his sophomore season, and it rapidly became apparent in the early stages of that season that he was an absolute nightmare overall on offense to a degree that is uncommon for any NBA player.

Though this is by no means said in the vein of "I told you so," I've got to say that the sheer number of hardcore apologies made for the guy over the course of his tenure with the Pistons is something I've never seen elsewhere for as brutally ineffective an NBA player as Killian was.

It’s crazy to me that the Nets have Simmons, who seems afraid of contact and shooting the ball, and they thought “let’s bring in Hayes for a look”

I hope he makes the team just to watch how he does

[Crymson]

It’s crazy to me that the Nets have Simmons, who seems afraid of contact and shooting the ball, and they thought “let’s bring in Hayes for a look”

I hope he makes the team just to watch how he does

They're in the same position as the Pistons were back in 2020: in full tank mode, so why not have a look at some potential reclamation projects?

He's one of the few players I'll wish failure upon. He consistently refused to put in the work as a Piston. They used a high draft pick to select him and gave him a ton of opportunity as part of chance after chance after chance after chance and throughout it all, he thought that he was such a special snowflake that he shouldn't need to ever dribble into contact. All of his teammates did it, almost everyone in the NBA does it (Lonzo is the only other exception I can think of), and both of his coaching staffs tried to get him to do it, but he refused to do it.

[SuperBad]

I like the idea of Simmons coming to Detroit on his next contract, kinda as the backup to Cade, Ausar, and Holland. Some elite defense all around possiblity, and someone that Cade might let run the point and he could play off ball some.

[Crymson]

I like the idea of Simmons coming to Detroit on his next contract, kinda as the backup to Cade, Ausar, and Holland. Some elite defense all around possiblity, and someone that Cade might let run the point and he could play off ball some.

You'd want the Pistons to deliberately bring on a complete non-shooter who's extremely injury-prone and has a cancerous attitude?

[Canadafan]

I like the idea of Simmons coming to Detroit on his next contract, kinda as the backup to Cade, Ausar, and Holland. Some elite defense all around possiblity, and someone that Cade might let run the point and he could play off ball some.

You'd want the Pistons to deliberately bring on a complete non-shooter who's extremely injury-prone and has a cancerous attitude?

Hey crymson, so what's your deal? Tell us. How long u been a Piston fan like the rest of us freaks lol.
I've been a fanatic since the celts Pistons late 80s days. My 1st memory was of dantley knocking heads with Vinnie

[Crymson]

I've been a fanatic since the celts Pistons late 80s days. My 1st memory was of dantley knocking heads with Vinnie

You've been a fan for far longer than I. My dedicated fandom dates back to late 2014.

[MotownMadness]

I started being die hard around 03 but i was born in 85

[chrbal]

First games I watched were 88 NBA finals with my dad and grandpa. Started getting into it the following season.

[Canadafan]

I've been a fanatic since the celts Pistons late 80s days. My 1st memory was of dantley knocking heads with Vinnie

You've been a fan for far longer than I. My dedicated fandom dates back to late 2014.

Oh wow. You missed out on some amazing times.
Here's to hoping we all get to witness a 3rd championship run

[Invictus88]

I've been a fanatic since the celts Pistons late 80s days. My 1st memory was of dantley knocking heads with Vinnie

You've been a fan for far longer than I. My dedicated fandom dates back to late 2014.

Oh wow. You missed out on some amazing times.
Here's to hoping we all get to witness a 3rd championship run

+1 to this.

My earliest basketball memories were following the 1987 NCAA Tournament (for some reason I rooted for Syracuse and thought Steve Alford was evil). I remember Keith Smart hitting the shot to win it.

Watch on YouTube

Which then was followed by the then-standard One Shining Moment compilation that CBS did at the end of every tournament:

Watch on YouTube

For the NBA I remember all of the NBA on CBS playoff intros where they would start each game's coverage by essentially telling a story of how things were going in the series. The rivalries seemed much bigger then.

Watch on YouTube

I also remember watching the end of game 5 highlighted above at the end of the intro for 6 where Bird stole the ball and passed it for the winning score. A heartbreaker for sure but the struggles from then until we won it all really made those Bad Boys championships pretty sweet.

I was a young kid at the time so I just kind of took for granted that that was how progression worked (you got better and better until you inevitably won the championship and then some other team did the same, etc). Hah!

But I'm very blessed to have good memories of both championship crews... hopefully we are at the very beginnings of the third one...

[Crymson]

Oh wow. You missed out on some amazing times.
Here's to hoping we all get to witness a 3rd championship run

I watched the Pistons casually during some of the Going to Work era. But I was nowhere near as keyed in as I have been for the last decade or so. I was focused chiefly on the Red Wings for a long time.

[breezypeezy]

Im much older than all of you.
I remember the sweet "20 and 10 Machine" Bob Lanier. Followed his games over the AM radio on WJR.
He was by far my fave Piston, until Isiah arrived on the scene.

[Crymson]

Im much older than all of you.
I remember the sweet "20 and 10 Machine" Bob Lanier. Followed his games over the AM radio on WJR.
He was by far my fave Piston, until Isiah arrived on the scene.

Which side did you fight on in the Civil War?

[BadMofoPimp]

As a kid, I remember being mad when they traded Tripucka for Dantley, then I modeled my free throw shooting after Dantley, then got mad trading Dantley for Aguirre. Liked the guy, good defense, but I still like Dantley. I remember my step-dad jumpin for joy over drafting Rodman in the 2nd round. I was like "Who?"