Free Agency

[Snakebites]

There is a part of me that wonders if Trajan isn’t biding his time to see if there’s a good value signing to be had at the end.

But there’s not much out there. Just Okoro who would require a sign and trade and some older vets.

Morris seems to have offers from better teams. Doubt he goes to us for more money at this phase if his career.

[SuperBad]

Jody Meeks was the SVG signing that never caught any air. Laur was just really disappointing. I think Ish could help, I’m assuming Cade is the PG 32+ minutes a game, with where we’re at; if we were to end up with Ish, Sasser, and Ivey platooning 16 minutes a game, I think Ish could be perfect for the role, change of pace from Cade, maybe he can teach Sasser and Ivey, he was never great, but he’s played for everyone, and won a championship now. Supposedly a great locker room guy, young players need guys like him.

[Crymson]

I think Ish could help, I’m assuming Cade is the PG 32+ minutes a game, with where we’re at; if we were to end up with Ish, Sasser, and Ivey platooning 16 minutes a game, I think Ish could be perfect for the role, change of pace from Cade, maybe he can teach Sasser and Ivey, he was never great, but he’s played for everyone, and won a championship now. Supposedly a great locker room guy, young players need guys like him.

Great locker room guy, yes. Useful on the court? No. Able to play -- and therefore teach -- the modern game? Also no. There's no such thing nowadays as a change of pace point guard who can't shoot. The vast, vast, vast majority of NBA scoring happens in the halfcourt (well upwards of 80% of points on average), and Ish is a massive liability in the halfcourt.

He played 12 minutes in the postseason for Denver's championship squad.

There is a part of me that wonders if Trajan isn’t biding his time to see if there’s a good value signing to be had at the end.

But there’s not much out there. Just Okoro who would require a sign and trade and some older vets.

Morris seems to have offers from better teams. Doubt he goes to us for more money at this phase if his career.

It's possible he'll just carry both the cap space and the Room MLE (which won't begin to prorate downward until after the deadline) into the regular season. It'd be an extremely unusual thing, but it's not as if the Pistons have rotation space for anything beyond a third-string point guard at this point anyway. If there's nothing notable to be done with that space -- and it's not as if cap dumps are really a major thing at this point in the offseason -- then I think it'll probably stay idle for now.

If the FO wanted Okoro, I'd wager they'd have pursued him before signing Simone and Beasley into cap space. They had $24 million of it at that point.

Agreed on Morris; this team can offer him neither a rotation role nor a chance at a title. That said, there's no knowing if he's actually got other offers -- he hasn't been a solid NBA player in awhile now, and there are a surprising number of half-decent role players of his ilk who remain unsigned.

[Canadafan]

Soooo....fun fact. THJr+Beasely+Sasser+our cap space=Brandon Ingram. Interesting....
When are the first 2 guys eligible to be dealt?
What needs to be added by us to make N.O. go for it? Are 2nds enough of an enticement?

Nice little 8 man rotation with Reed and Holland extending it to 10

Duren30 Stew18 Reed
Tobias30 Fontecchio18
Ingram30 Ausar6 Fontecchio12
Ivey12 Ausar24 Holland12
Cade30 Ivey18

[Crymson]

Soooo....fun fact. THJr+Beasely+Sasser+our cap space=Brandon Ingram. Interesting....
When are the first 2 guys eligible to be dealt?
What needs to be added by us to make N.O. go for it? Are 2nds enough of an enticement?

Nice little 8 man rotation with Reed and Holland extending it to 10

Duren30 Stew18 Reed
Tobias30 Fontecchio18
Ingram30 Ausar6 Fontecchio12
Ivey12 Ausar24 Holland12
Cade30 Ivey18

THJ will be eligible to be aggregated with other salaries on the 6th, and Beasley can be traded starting on December 15th.

But the Pelicans aren't trying to dump Ingram. He's got his downsides, and they might not want to pay him next summer, but he's still a good scorer and one of only three players on their roster who can create offense, and they're trying to win now. They aren't aiming to get worse, so they'll be looking for either significant roster help in return or enough in the way of future assets to make punting a bit on the upcoming postseason worthwhile.

Langdon and company would presumably be disinterested in surrendering substantial value in return for an injury-prone pending free agent who'll demand a substantial overpay on a long-term deal or might just opt to walk altogether. Ingram isn't going to move any needless for this team as things currently stand, and his health is likely to worsen rather than improve as he accumulates more NBA miles. There's also his poor fit with Cade, but that's a different subject.

[chrbal]

Soooo....fun fact. THJr+Beasely+Sasser+our cap space=Brandon Ingram. Interesting....
When are the first 2 guys eligible to be dealt?
What needs to be added by us to make N.O. go for it? Are 2nds enough of an enticement?

Nice little 8 man rotation with Reed and Holland extending it to 10

Duren30 Stew18 Reed
Tobias30 Fontecchio18
Ingram30 Ausar6 Fontecchio12
Ivey12 Ausar24 Holland12
Cade30 Ivey18

Pelicans aren’t looking to outright dump him, i don’t feel like he solves enough of the Pistons issues to pay him that much

[Snakebites]

Soooo....fun fact. THJr+Beasely+Sasser+our cap space=Brandon Ingram. Interesting....
When are the first 2 guys eligible to be dealt?
What needs to be added by us to make N.O. go for it? Are 2nds enough of an enticement?

Nice little 8 man rotation with Reed and Holland extending it to 10

Duren30 Stew18 Reed
Tobias30 Fontecchio18
Ingram30 Ausar6 Fontecchio12
Ivey12 Ausar24 Holland12
Cade30 Ivey18

Pelicans aren’t looking to outright dump him, i don’t feel like he solves enough of the Pistons issues to pay him that much

That’s the problem with Ingram. If you’re on the fence/opposed to giving him a full max (which to me the reasonable stance), you’re for sure not game to give up value to trade for him too.

[bstein14]

TL likely has the same insights that the rest of the Pels leadership had as far as why they don't want to pay him the max. I think we'd likely clearly take him if it was only going to cost us something like THjr + one of Font, Ivey or Stew... but I am pretty certain we're not going to give up any future picks or real assets for him.

[Canadafan]

Couple dumb questions this morning;
Do we lose our $11mil capspace when season starts?
Is it too late to put Beasely down under our $8mil exemption so we can have $17mil in cap space?

[Snakebites]

Couple dumb questions this morning;
Do we lose our $11mil capspace when season starts?
Is it too late to put Beasely down under our $8mil exemption so we can have $17mil in cap space?

No and yes.

[Crymson]

Couple dumb questions this morning;
Do we lose our $11mil capspace when season starts?

It's down to $10.2 million now that Klintman is officially on the books. Any cap space above the cap floor (which the Pistons have already reached) persists. So does the Room MLE, though it begins to prorate down in size after the trade deadline.

Is it too late to put Beasely down under our $8mil exemption so we can have $17mil in cap space?

Exceptions can be used only when a team is at the salary cap (including if signing a contract using the exception would take the team above the cap). Unless Beasley was willing to wait for that possibility, it was never going to happen. He's been officially signed into cap space in any event, so that door is closed.

I know you're big on Okoro, and this pertains to that: if the FO were interested, they had about $24 million (and could've generated a bit more through some cap footwork) of cap space remaining after taking on Reed's contract. They chose to just take Beasley and Fontecchio into cap space instead.

[Canadafan]

^^^^
Thanks guys. I assumed correctly.
Oh well. I'm OK going forward with Duren Stew Tobias Fontecchio Ausar Ivey Cade Beasley THJr getting any important minutes.
Holland eventually. Maybe by trade deadline if something happens with Beasely and/or THJr.

[Crymson]

There's still space for something to happen, but my supposition is that there weren't good opportunities for salary dumps -- or, rather, salary dumps who could contribute, which he seems to have been seeking rather than what amounts to dead salary -- during free agency (free agency salary dumps aren't very common), and so Langdon chose to carry cap space into the season instead. It's not too late for something to happen; but at this stage of the offseason, rosters are largely pretty set, teams have little incentive to dump salary -- and none at all to dump the salary of useful players -- and trades are very rare.

[Canadafan]

There's still space for something to happen, but my supposition is that there weren't good opportunities for salary dumps -- or, rather, salary dumps who could contribute, which he seems to have been seeking rather than what amounts to dead salary -- during free agency (free agency salary dumps aren't very common), and so Langdon chose to carry cap space into the season instead. It's not too late for something to happen; but at this stage of the offseason, rosters are largely pretty set, teams have little incentive to dump salary -- and none at all to dump the salary of useful players -- and trades are very rare.

Very nice. Thanks for all your responses, very well thought out

[Canadafan]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/pistons-jazz-only-teams-that-can-make-cavaliers-isaac-okoro-meaningful-offer/ar-BB1r2hRe?ocid=BingNewsVerp

Again, nothing new

[Canadafan]

Alrighty. One last stab at it. And then I swear I'll get a life.
We could leverage our cap space($10mil)to help a few teams out when guys are eligible to be traded.

Miami could use a 2 for 1 deal and save some cap. Beasely and Reed=$12mil.
Duncan Robinson=$19,000,000

Same with Lakers. 2 for 1 deal.
Rui Hachimura=$17,000,000

Same with Brooklyn. Or give them one or the other to save more.
Dorian Finney-Smith=$14,924,167

One or the other as well for Jarred Vanderbilt=$10,714,286

Atlanta could also look to get out of De'Andre Hunter $21,696,429
Could give them ThJr or one or both of the other.

Just a few ideas.
See you for the season opener guys

[Crymson]

Miami could use a 2 for 1 deal and save some cap. Beasely and Reed=$12mil.
Duncan Robinson=$19,000,000

Reed can't be traded until November 24th. Beasley can't be traded until December 15th.

Miami would get worse, which isn't in the cards for them, and they'd still be in the tax.

Same with Lakers. 2 for 1 deal.
Rui Hachimura=$17,000,000

The Lakers would get worse, and they've got no space for Beasley in the rotation in the first place.

Same with Brooklyn. Or give them one or the other to save more.
Dorian Finney-Smith=$14,924,167

If you're really looking for a starting-caliber forward, DFS ain't it. He's still a plus defender, but he's shot only 34% from three and 41% from the field over the past two seasons. And the Nets will probably be looking for more than this anyway. He's still a half-decent asset, and almost certainly not a dump candidate.

One or the other as well for Jarred Vanderbilt=$10,714,286

Vanderbilt is a non-shooter, 25, and very unlikely to improve. That's a hard pass.

Atlanta could also look to get out of De'Andre Hunter $21,696,429
Could give them ThJr or one or both of the other.

Hunter played himself into positive asset territory last season. The Hawks are looking to compete and they're already below the tax.

[JennetteMcCurdy]

Miami could use a 2 for 1 deal and save some cap. Beasely and Reed=$12mil.
Duncan Robinson=$19,000,000

Reed can't be traded until November 24th. Beasley can't be traded until December 15th.

Miami would get worse, which isn't in the cards for them, and they'd still be in the tax.

Miami may be at a crossroads. They could go in a lot of different directions. If they make a run for cap space, trades like this could happen.

[Crymson]

Miami may be at a crossroads. They could go in a lot of different directions. If they make a run for cap space, trades like this could happen.

Unless Butler opts out, Riley and company would enter the offseason with only about $10 million of cap space even if they were to dump Robinson, let go of all non-guaranteed salary, renounce all cap holds, and be without a first-round pick (through conveyance to OKC or via another trade), in which event they'd also have only eight players under contract plus a second-round pick.

Robinson isn't a starter-quality small forward either unless you're Spoelstra, so it's a moot point. He'd provide poor value against his salary here.

[JennetteMcCurdy]

Miami may be at a crossroads. They could go in a lot of different directions. If they make a run for cap space, trades like this could happen.

Unless Butler opts out, Riley and company would enter the offseason with only about $10 million of cap space even if they were to dump Robinson, let go of all non-guaranteed salary, renounce all cap holds, and be without a first-round pick (through conveyance to OKC or via another trade), in which event they'd also have only eight players under contract plus a second-round pick.

Robinson isn't a starter-quality small forward either unless you're Spoelstra, so it's a moot point. He'd provide poor value against his salary here.

They could go in a lot of different directions.