The Trade Thread

[tiderulz]

Kyrie is way better than Jennings, but he's the same kind of player -- all offense, no defense. I'd prefer someone without the scoring that can actually guard someone.

Steph Curry is another who is all offense, no defense.

[The Penguin]

It's the same story every year with these guys. Seems like the Cavs' fans are even more delusional than the management and ownership. Geez...

I really just enjoy how dismissive they are towards anything. Just look at the trade board, anyone comes up with any Cavs based idea and you've got 3-4 Cavs posters who jump on and immediately say "BS". "We wouldn't trade you Kyrie, you have nothing we'd want". I think Monroe + KCP + '16 top 3 protected pick would be a great haul for them. Monroe would look really nice next to Embiid if Embiid's shot blocking and outside shot are legit, KCP would give them a young 3&D guard they could put next to Waiters long term and have a nice young big backcourt and who knows what the pick could end up being. They could resign Deng and have a likely playoff team. Instead they are going to mess around with Kyrie, make 100% sure he doesn't want to be there, cry "woe is me" when he walks and get awarded another 2-3 #1 overall picks.

The problem with Monroe is that Cleveland already has Bennett/Thompson and we are taking Embiid #1. How does that make sense? I know Bennett doesn't have value to anyone else but Cleveland did take him #1 overall a year ago and he was still a legitimate Top-7 type of talent in the draft last year. Cleveland will give him a shot. And do you know what goes well with a 7-1 monster in the middle? A stretch-4 like Bennett. Embiid would allow Bennett to play the 4.

Monroe just isn't a good fit in Cleveland and trading a 21 year old 2x All-Star PG for him just isn't a good idea. It isn't about being arrogant, it is about being realistic.

Yes, it's about being realistic. Realistic that Kyrie has no interest in staying in Cleveland. Realistic about the kind of trade packages players like Irving fetch. I get it. The Cavs used high draft resources on Bennett & Thompson, still couldn't make the playoffs in a watered down conference and were awarded the #1 pick again in a flawed system. You have no reason to not expect an unrealistic return for Irving, if and when he does walk you guys get to cry "woe is me" again and get awarded another several top draft picks. May as well give the young players a chance, what's the harm when you keep getting handed draft resources like the spoiled rich kid whose wrecked several Porsches?

[Clarity]

For starters, it's less of a salary cap hell to deal with in Smith for a lowly defensive player that destroys your whole offense.

You can't win with defense alone, after all, you have to have a cohesive offense. Ala Spurs, aka Dynasty.

Lost to most is the old saying "good offense creates good defense".

I've said it & been ridiculed by some of the "interesting" posters on here but if we take away the idiot twins on offense, & could even halfway contain dribble penetration we are an entirely different team defensively last year. There is little to no talk about Greg Monroe struggling on d because he wouldn't have had to chase all year.

[Clarity]

It's the same story every year with these guys. Seems like the Cavs' fans are even more delusional than the management and ownership. Geez...

Cleveland should be a title contender with the draft luck they have had.

They have literally missed on every draft pick aside from Kyrie, now there is chatter Kyrie is leaving because again, Cleveland is owned by an absolute moron incapable of building good teams. it really speaks to how great Lebron James actually is, Cleveland has had crap on a stick on that roster over the last 15 years aside from him.

The failed draft comment also includes them probably taking Aaron Gordon this year at #1 because he can jump high lol

[The Penguin]

It's the same story every year with these guys. Seems like the Cavs' fans are even more delusional than the management and ownership. Geez...

Cleveland should be a title contender with the draft luck they have had.

They have literally missed on every draft pick aside from Kyrie, now there is chatter Kyrie is leaving because again, Cleveland is owned by an absolute moron incapable of building good teams. it really speaks to how great Lebron James actually is, Cleveland has had crap on a stick on that roster over the last 15 years aside from him.

The failed draft comment also includes them probably taking Aaron Gordon this year at #1 because he can jump high lol

I was going to say something about "could you imagine if we had Chris Grant drafting for us the last few years" then I just realized it would be as simple as we'd have Thompson/Waiters/Bennett instead of Knight/Drummond/KCP. For all the flack Dumars gets I'd rather have Drummond/Monroe/KCP/Knight than Kyrie/Thompson/Waiters/Bennett.

[Neptune]

Any new trade ideas?

[The Penguin]

Done in 2 parts after the draft:

Part 1: KCP, unprotected '15 1st, Jerebko, Bynum, Datome, Mitchell for Kevin Martin, Corey Brewer, Budinger, Mbah a Moute

Part 2: S&T Monroe for Love


Drummond/Harrellson
Love/Smith
Brewer/Budinger/Mbah a Moute
Martin/Singler
Jennings/Siva


Minny dumps all their contracts and gets Monroe/KCP/1st for Love. They completely clear the deck and enter summer of 2015 with:

Pek/Dieng
Monroe
Muhammad
KCP
Rubio

With max cap space

[Neptune]

Done in 2 parts after the draft:

Part 1: KCP, unprotected '15 1st, Jerebko, Bynum, Datome, Mitchell for Kevin Martin, Corey Brewer, Budinger, Mbah a Moute

Part 2: S&T Monroe for Love


Drummond/Harrellson
Love/Smith
Brewer/Budinger/Mbah a Moute
Martin/Singler
Jennings/Siva

Minny dumps all their contracts and gets Monroe/KCP/1st for Love. They completely clear the deck and enter summer of 2015 with:

Pek/Dieng
Monroe
Muhammad
KCP
Rubio

With max cap space

This trade is actually even talent-wise. I could possibly see us doing your trade scenario if we get 100% assurance Love will re-sign(T'Wolves look great in your scenario btw). I know in about 3 years I'll be pissed we traded KCP though.

[The Penguin]

Done in 2 parts after the draft:

Part 1: KCP, unprotected '15 1st, Jerebko, Bynum, Datome, Mitchell for Kevin Martin, Corey Brewer, Budinger, Mbah a Moute

Part 2: S&T Monroe for Love


Drummond/Harrellson
Love/Smith
Brewer/Budinger/Mbah a Moute
Martin/Singler
Jennings/Siva

Minny dumps all their contracts and gets Monroe/KCP/1st for Love. They completely clear the deck and enter summer of 2015 with:

Pek/Dieng
Monroe
Muhammad
KCP
Rubio

With max cap space

This trade is actually even talent-wise. I could possibly see us doing your trade scenario if we get 100% assurance Love will re-sign(T'Wolves look great in your scenario btw). I know in about 3 years I'll be pissed we traded KCP though.

I don't know that Love would want to be here but I sure like the potential of him next to Drummond.

[Q00]

Kings are talking offering that 8th pick for Love, and are willing to do so even with no assurances that he will resign.

So that tells you the standard they have for what they want in return for that pick. They want to go all in for a star, and Smith isn't putting up 26/13, so I think you can forget the Smith for 8 dreams.

Besides, what are you getting with that 8th pick anyways - Doug McDermott? Is he even better than what you would give up in Smith? He's a better shooter and would fill that need, but trading one of your only good defensive players for a rookie terrible defender would only make this defense that much worse, which is really their biggest problem, not shooting. So even if the Kings agreed to that trade, I think you only end up making a trade that just makes you worse, not better.

Of course there are other options than just McDermott at 8, but its still just the 8th pick and there aren't any more great players there now than there was when we had the pick.

I think its best to just forget the draft, pick up a 3pt specialist with 38th pick, and go all in on FA/trades to improve.

That's funny, you assumed your whole argument around McDermott as if that is the only result of having #8. Despite what you say, #8 is a way better asset than Smith.

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For starters, it's less of a salary cap hell to deal with in Smith for a lowly defensive player that destroys your whole offense.

You can't win with defense alone, after all, you have to have a cohesive offense. Ala Spurs, aka Dynasty.

Spurs haven't won a championship in 7 years. I'd stop wanting to model your team after them if I were you, unless your goal is to lose in the CF/Finals every other year. They were never a Dynasty either. You have to win b2b for that.

I agree you can't win championships with just defense alone, that's obvious, but you do obviously need a great defense to go with your offense to win a championship. Smith is a lot better of a two-way player than anyone you're likely to get at 8.

Calling him a lowly defensive player is a joke. He's was voted on the All-Defense team in 2010. In 2012, he finished #1 among all players in the league in defensive win shares, 5th in defensive rating, and 5th in defensive rebounds. He's been pretty much top 5-10 in blocks every year of his career. You either have a bad memory of his career in Atlanta, or for whatever reason are choosing to discard 90% of his career and only base your opinion on what he did last season in Detroit. Because Smith has been a great defensive player for almost all of his career.

[paQo the BAWSER]

Spurs haven't won a championship in 7 years. I'd stop wanting to model your team after them if I were you, unless your goal is to lose in the CF/Finals every other year. They were never a Dynasty either. You have to win b2b for that.

They are the best USA sports franchise in the last 15 years man, they are the current meaning of dinasty.

[DBC10]

That's funny, you assumed your whole argument around McDermott as if that is the only result of having #8. Despite what you say, #8 is a way better asset than Smith.

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For starters, it's less of a salary cap hell to deal with in Smith for a lowly defensive player that destroys your whole offense.

You can't win with defense alone, after all, you have to have a cohesive offense. Ala Spurs, aka Dynasty.

Spurs haven't won a championship in 7 years. I'd stop wanting to model your team after them if I were you, unless your goal is to lose in the CF/Finals every other year. They were never a Dynasty either. You have to win b2b for that.

I agree you can't win championships with just defense alone, that's obvious, but you do obviously need a great defense to go with your offense to win a championship. Smith is a lot better of a two-way player than anyone you're likely to get at 8.

Calling him a lowly defensive player is a joke. He's was voted on the All-Defense team in 2010. In 2012, he finished #1 among all players in the league in defensive win shares, 5th in defensive rating, and 5th in defensive rebounds. He's been pretty much top 5-10 in blocks every year of his career. You either have a bad memory of his career in Atlanta, or for whatever reason are choosing to discard 90% of his career and only base your opinion on what he did last season in Detroit. Because Smith has been a great defensive player for almost all of his career.

Us having the same model as the Spurs right now of having a synergy of GM and Coach being one and the same is technically being used with the same reasoning. I'm not saying the Spurs invented that kind of synergy, but they're the most polished franchise in history to utilize it. We should be glad we're trying to mimic that, and in fact, SVG even mentioned the Spurs when it came to a successful franchise and wants to utilize it to the full extent the Spurs have.

http://projectspurs.com/2014-articles/n ... dvice.html

Let's not be shallow and pedantic, the Spurs have been a winning franchise for years, nearly every team in this league save for the Heat, Lakers, and Celtics would pay a king's ransom for that kind of accomplishment. IMO I'd classify the Spurs as a dynasty despite them not winning a b2b since they had a long period of championships and WCF/Finals during the Duncan era. It's debatable, sure. I'd much rather look at the context of their situation rather than from a chip status. Besides, the Spurs are the closest thing to a living dynasty in this league right now with the Lakers falling through.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynasty_(sports)#National_Basketball_Association

I think good defense, not great defense wins championships. Offense has to have a bit more output than defense is IMO.

Calling Josh a lowly defensive player for this season is accurate since he was pretty atrocious this season. As for the last few seasons, sure I agree, but he's coming into his "old" prime now and his athleticism will surely fade as the years go on just like Dwight has lost bit of his dominance in his "old" prime. It's only going to be downhill from here, the guy's been in the league for a long time. Smith is primarily a one way player since his offensive game is either shoot (miserable at), off balance drive (great), and off-balanced 2-dribble hookshot (bad), which was what I was trying to get at when I made the "lowly" comment. Don't get me wrong, in his young prime, he was a fantastic shot blocker and defensive presence, that I attest to in his ATL days.

[Q00]

Spurs haven't won a championship in 7 years. I'd stop wanting to model your team after them if I were you, unless your goal is to lose in the CF/Finals every other year. They were never a Dynasty either. You have to win b2b for that.

They are the best USA sports franchise in the last 15 years man, they are the current meaning of dinasty.

No. A dynasty is a successive period of ruling. You can't be a dynasty if you never held the crown for more than 1 year at a time.

They never even ruled the West two years in a row, let alone the whole NBA.

And you can't be called the best franchise in sports over the last 15 years when other teams had just as long of runs, won just as many or more titles, and won b2b titles and you didn't.

The Lakers were the best franchise of the last 15 years. 5 titles, including a three-peat and going b2b that spanned 7 years apart with two totally different rosters except for Kobe.

[DetroitSho]

Spurs haven't won a championship in 7 years. I'd stop wanting to model your team after them if I were you, unless your goal is to lose in the CF/Finals every other year. They were never a Dynasty either. You have to win b2b for that.

They are the best USA sports franchise in the last 15 years man, they are the current meaning of dinasty.

No. A dynasty is a successive period of ruling. You can't be a dynasty if you never held the crown for more than 1 year at a time.

They never even ruled the West two years in a row, let alone the whole NBA.

And you can't be called the best franchise in sports over the last 15 years when other teams had just as long of runs, won just as many or more titles, and won b2b titles and you didn't.

The Lakers were the best franchise of the last 15 years. 5 titles, including a three-peat and going b2b that spanned 7 years apart with two totally different rosters except for Kobe.

Says who? Oh yeah your hero Phil Jackson.

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[DowJones]

I really just enjoy how dismissive they are towards anything. Just look at the trade board, anyone comes up with any Cavs based idea and you've got 3-4 Cavs posters who jump on and immediately say "BS". "We wouldn't trade you Kyrie, you have nothing we'd want". I think Monroe + KCP + '16 top 3 protected pick would be a great haul for them. Monroe would look really nice next to Embiid if Embiid's shot blocking and outside shot are legit, KCP would give them a young 3&D guard they could put next to Waiters long term and have a nice young big backcourt and who knows what the pick could end up being. They could resign Deng and have a likely playoff team. Instead they are going to mess around with Kyrie, make 100% sure he doesn't want to be there, cry "woe is me" when he walks and get awarded another 2-3 #1 overall picks.

The problem with Monroe is that Cleveland already has Bennett/Thompson and we are taking Embiid #1. How does that make sense? I know Bennett doesn't have value to anyone else but Cleveland did take him #1 overall a year ago and he was still a legitimate Top-7 type of talent in the draft last year. Cleveland will give him a shot. And do you know what goes well with a 7-1 monster in the middle? A stretch-4 like Bennett. Embiid would allow Bennett to play the 4.

Monroe just isn't a good fit in Cleveland and trading a 21 year old 2x All-Star PG for him just isn't a good idea. It isn't about being arrogant, it is about being realistic.

Yes, it's about being realistic. Realistic that Kyrie has no interest in staying in Cleveland. Realistic about the kind of trade packages players like Irving fetch. I get it. The Cavs used high draft resources on Bennett & Thompson, still couldn't make the playoffs in a watered down conference and were awarded the #1 pick again in a flawed system. You have no reason to not expect an unrealistic return for Irving, if and when he does walk you guys get to cry "woe is me" again and get awarded another several top draft picks. May as well give the young players a chance, what's the harm when you keep getting handed draft resources like the spoiled rich kid whose wrecked several Porsches?

I understand but there is no point for Cleveland fans to worry about previous draft picks. Cleveland has a new GM now and we will see what he can do. Hopefully the new management team can provide results. That is all you can really do if you are a Cleveland fan. That doesn't change a Kyrie for Monroe trade. It doesn't make sense for Cleveland. It just isn't a good move.

[Q00]

For starters, it's less of a salary cap hell to deal with in Smith for a lowly defensive player that destroys your whole offense.

You can't win with defense alone, after all, you have to have a cohesive offense. Ala Spurs, aka Dynasty.

Spurs haven't won a championship in 7 years. I'd stop wanting to model your team after them if I were you, unless your goal is to lose in the CF/Finals every other year. They were never a Dynasty either. You have to win b2b for that.

I agree you can't win championships with just defense alone, that's obvious, but you do obviously need a great defense to go with your offense to win a championship. Smith is a lot better of a two-way player than anyone you're likely to get at 8.

Calling him a lowly defensive player is a joke. He's was voted on the All-Defense team in 2010. In 2012, he finished #1 among all players in the league in defensive win shares, 5th in defensive rating, and 5th in defensive rebounds. He's been pretty much top 5-10 in blocks every year of his career. You either have a bad memory of his career in Atlanta, or for whatever reason are choosing to discard 90% of his career and only base your opinion on what he did last season in Detroit. Because Smith has been a great defensive player for almost all of his career.

Us having the same model as the Spurs right now of having a synergy of GM and Coach being one and the same is technically being used with the same reasoning. I'm not saying the Spurs invented that kind of synergy, but they're the most polished franchise in history to utilize it. We should be glad we're trying to mimic that, and in fact, SVG even mentioned the Spurs when it came to a successful franchise and wants to utilize it to the full extent the Spurs have.

http://projectspurs.com/2014-articles/n ... dvice.html

Let's not be shallow and pedantic, the Spurs have been a winning franchise for years, nearly every team in this league save for the Heat, Lakers, and Celtics would pay a king's ransom for that kind of accomplishment. IMO I'd classify the Spurs as a dynasty despite them not winning a b2b since they had a long period of championships and WCF/Finals during the Duncan era. It's debatable, sure. I'd much rather look at the context of their situation rather than from a chip status. Besides, the Spurs are the closest thing to a living dynasty in this league right now with the Lakers falling through.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynasty_(sports)#National_Basketball_Association

I think good defense, not great defense wins championships. Offense has to have a bit more output than defense is IMO.

Calling Josh a lowly defensive player for this season is accurate since he was pretty atrocious this season. As for the last few seasons, sure I agree, but he's coming into his "old" prime now and his athleticism will surely fade as the years go on just like Dwight has lost bit of his dominance in his "old" prime. It's only going to be downhill from here, the guy's been in the league for a long time. Smith is primarily a one way player since his offensive game is either shoot (miserable at), off balance drive (great), and off-balanced 2-dribble hookshot (bad), which was what I was trying to get at when I made the "lowly" comment. Don't get me wrong, in his young prime, he was a fantastic shot blocker and defensive presence, that I attest to in his ATL days.

Red Auerbach won 8 straight championships with the Celtics in the dual role model, so the Spurs aren't the most polished franchise in history to utilize it. And if you think they are the closest thing to living dynasty right now in the league, you should take notice of what is going on in Miami.

I don't see where the hiring of SVG implies that the Pistons were trying to copy the Spurs at all. The fact that SAS has succeeded with that model probably gave Gores confidence that it can work, but they are just one team among others who other have succeeded with it. You could just as easily assume he was trying to follow Miami when Riley was coach/president, considering Stan actually came from that system, not just planned to talk to them about how it was done.

If the Pistons want to follow a model they already have their own blueprints with the bad boys and goin to work teams anyways, on how to build a team that can sustain success over a decade and win championships. And if they want to follow a current model, they should be looking at what Miami is doing, because they are the ones actually bringing home the trophy every year, not the Spurs.

I'm not saying that to discredit them either, but the goal here shouldn't be to win 55 games every year and come up short in the playoffs. The goal should be to win the whole thing and they haven't since 2007. I'm just saying we should be looking at teams who have won it all recently, if we are trying to follow any current models today, not teams that just had long runs of playoff appearances.

I don't buy that Smith at 28-29 is somehow old either. A players prime is usually 27-32. He's right in the middle of his prime, age-wise.

[Clarity]

I was going to say something about "could you imagine if we had Chris Grant drafting for us the last few years" then I just realized it would be as simple as we'd have Thompson/Waiters/Bennett instead of Knight/Drummond/KCP. For all the flack Dumars gets I'd rather have Drummond/Monroe/KCP/Knight than Kyrie/Thompson/Waiters/Bennett.

any day of the week & on Sunday man, im with you

[Clarity]

Spurs haven't won a championship in 7 years. I'd stop wanting to model your team after them if I were you, unless your goal is to lose in the CF/Finals every other year. They were never a Dynasty either. You have to win b2b for that.

Maybe the single craziest thing you've ever said on here. & this is you were talking about.

[ducler]

MCW available, what can we offer for him?

[Neptune]

MCW available, what can we offer for him?

How about the 38th pick and Bynum?