Your 2022 NBA Draft Prospect

[Manocad]

Diallo on many nights last year was our best player. He was our best(most efficient scoring) ISO player as far as points per possession goes. He's a great athlete. He's above average defensively. He's a cheap backup and still young and improving.

The biggest problem is he isn't a reliable shooter, and Hayes isn't a shooter. So playing two guards off the bench that can't shoot isn't ideal. You'd better have your 3/4/5 off the bench all be able to shoot if both your guards can't.

In an ideal scenario you have only one starter that isn't a good perimeter shooter and only one bench player that isn't a good perimeter shooter and your other 8 guys are 35+% from deep.

The problem is that some Pistons fans want perfection in every player which is especially unfair to young, developing players. If a player has a real flaw, it's time to ship him out.

Think about it...
Bey struggles on defense, trade him
Killian struggles to score, trade him (not even legal drinking age yet btw)
Bagley struggles to defend, trade him
Stewart can't stretch the court on offense, trade him (not even legal drinking age yet btw)
Diallo's game is too chaotic, trade him
etc. etc.
None of these guys are older than 23 btw.

I get the Grant trade talk because you wonder if he fits the timeline and if you want to commit big money to what will be a player on the back side of his prime. I get wanting to trade Olynyk because he's an older player that will likely be phased out of the rotation before long and I get maybe wanting to trade one of the young guys if the rotation gets too cluttered at some point due to talent overflow and they're due for a big payday but, right now, it makes no sense to deal any of the young players mentioned above just because they have a flaw or two.

You develop your young guys, build up a core rotation (which yes, does include bench guys like Diallo and Bagley assuming that they upgrade the starting rotation) and then make the decisions on them when the time for that comes which is not now because I hate to break it to some of you guys but.... the Pistons are still in a rebuild.

Bingo. Too many people here think it's realistic to build a team that has above average players, relative to their position, at EVERY SINGLE ROSTER SPOT. And that's just not realistic. Not to mention it's a constant "on paper" analysis that completely overlooks development of a true team dynamic.

[whitehops]

the rumours last year were that Keon Johnson fudged his standing reach measurements to get a better max vert, so it could be a similar thing here
I'm sure its still 40+, but 49 doesn't seem realistic

it's a very popular technique. jericho sims last year in the combine only had a standing reach of 8'10 and surprise surprise, measured a 44.5" vert (second in the draft class at 6'9, 250). for reference, sims was 3 inches taller and had a 3 inch bigger wingspan than herbert jones but they both had the same standing reach.

[whitehops]

You develop your young guys, build up a core rotation (which yes, does include bench guys like Diallo and Bagley assuming that they upgrade the starting rotation) and then make the decisions on them when the time for that comes which is not now because I hate to break it to some of you guys but.... the Pistons are still in a rebuild.

how long do you develop young guys for when they show only minimal/marginal improvement? diallo, bagley and frank jackson have been in the league for four years and have shown next to no improvement.

- diallo hasn't added a single element to his game since entering the league. he is still a complete non-shooter, has no dribble moves for himself to score and doesn't make plays for others. he provides energy, is a good cutter and crashes offensive boards which is how he came into the league.
- frank jackson hasn't added a single element to his game since entering the league. he is still largely an off-ball three point shooter who can attack the odd closeout. he provides no shot creation or play making and is a sieve defensively. that was his scouting report coming into the league.
- marvin bagley hasn't added a single element to his game since entering the league. he is still a non-shooter, has no perimeter skills, is still a black hole with the ball, and quite bad defensively. he provides energy, crashes offensive boards, has some post moves and is a solid finisher inside. he benefitted from having less post ups and being the recipient of lobs in the pick and roll but his scouting report is the same now as it was four years ago.

i know we can't turn over the roster every season but it isn't prudent to get attached to players that show no improvement just because they still have the "youth/potential" label. keeping players like diallo and bagley for a year or two on cheap deals to fill out the bench is one thing but counting them as part of the core is not a good way to build a team.

[Manocad]

You develop your young guys, build up a core rotation (which yes, does include bench guys like Diallo and Bagley assuming that they upgrade the starting rotation) and then make the decisions on them when the time for that comes which is not now because I hate to break it to some of you guys but.... the Pistons are still in a rebuild.

how long do you develop young guys for when they show only minimal/marginal improvement? diallo, bagley and frank jackson have been in the league for four years and have shown next to no improvement.

- diallo hasn't added a single element to his game since entering the league. he is still a complete non-shooter, has no dribble moves for himself to score and doesn't make plays for others. he provides energy, is a good cutter and crashes offensive boards which is how he came into the league.
- frank jackson hasn't added a single element to his game since entering the league. he is still largely an off-ball three point shooter who can attack the odd closeout. he provides no shot creation or play making and is a sieve defensively. that was his scouting report coming into the league.
- marvin bagley hasn't added a single element to his game since entering the league. he is still a non-shooter, has no perimeter skills, is still a black hole with the ball, and quite bad defensively. he provides energy, crashes offensive boards, has some post moves and is a solid finisher inside. he benefitted from having less post ups and being the recipient of lobs in the pick and roll but his scouting report is the same now as it was four years ago.

i know we can't turn over the roster every season but it isn't prudent to get attached to players that show no improvement just because they still have the "youth/potential" label. keeping players like diallo and bagley for a year or two on cheap deals to fill out the bench is one thing but counting them as part of the core is not a good way to build a team.

So basically the bench players play like...bench players. This is common in the NBA.

[whitehops]

So basically the bench players play like...bench players. This is common in the NBA.

yeah, but you don't build your roster from the bench up. which is what prioritizing bringing back players like bagley is doing.

[buzzkilloton]

Sam V and Edwards did a discussion about the Pistons today. Sam V said Smith 1 for us now he also has moved Smith into his 1 spot on his big board. Seems like majority here have been 1 Smith for awhile. Smith is just so hard to see failing and hes also really young and athletic so he has a ceiling.

I thought the interesting question was about Ivey. I wanted to post the Ivey discussion because I think in general sentiment here and really most places is bearish on Ivey so its good to see the bull side. Scouting is always imperfect and the outcomes for all these players can vary. Even if you hate Iveys game there is a world where he ends up being a star one day although not likely.

Spoiler:

Edwards: Let’s talk about Jaden Ivey. I like Ivey, but I’m not as high on him as others, including yourself, are. I’ll assume I’m missing something. Detroit very much needs to address its other guard spot alongside Cade Cunningham. Do you think a Cunningham and Ivey pairing would work? Do you believe in Ivey being a capable off-ball shooter at the next level?

Vecenie: I think what makes Ivey an interesting proposition is obviously his athleticism. I have him at No. 4, but I do have him a step below the others in large part because of what happens after he gets that separation. He’s going to get downhill with ease. He’s going to get away from his man in isolation, an essential skill during playoff basketball. I just wish he showed a bit more in terms of reliable decision-making, scoring, and defense.

Ivey misses a lot of open kick-out passes to his teammates in favor of not-great looks in the paint. He puts pressure on the rim constantly, but I think it’d really help him if a coach could get with him and help him with reading back-side help defenders and making reads off of what they’re doing. I also think it’s probably going to take some time for him to adjust to playing in NBA-style ball-screen actions because that’s just not the Purdue offense. Additionally, I’d love to see him really put in the effort on defense. I actually think he’s weirdly a bit more effective playing on floor-spacing shooters and chasing them around off-ball actions than he is at anything else on defense right now, including playing on the ball despite his awesome athleticism.

The thing with Ivey is that he has all the stuff you can’t teach, and doesn’t have a lot of the stuff that NBA coaches and front offices always believe you can teach. He’s the ultimate “I can fix him” prospect in this class. The athletic tools are elite. The upside is real because of all the downhill pressure he can put on the paint. But it’s going to take some work.

Having said that, in regard to your second question, this is the exact kind of athlete that I want next to Cunningham. The Pistons have built a core that doesn’t have a ton of explosiveness. Cunningham, Saddiq Bey, Isaiah Stewart, Killian Hayes and Isaiah Livers, if you want to put them in that group (I am a big Livers fan based off of the little sample we saw at the end of the year) – these guys aren’t wild athletes. I worry that athletic teams in the playoffs might be able to just kind of swallow a group like this up. Ivey would be something of a combo-breaker because of his ability to just get a shot out of isolation. And Cunningham has all of the feel stuff that Ivey doesn’t. You’d be taking the ball out of Cunningham’s hands more than I’d like, but the idea of Ivey’s athleticism is pretty tantalizing. I’d think long and hard about him at No. 4 if the Pistons fall there.

[Manocad]

So basically the bench players play like...bench players. This is common in the NBA.

yeah, but you don't build your roster from the bench up. which is what prioritizing bringing back players like bagley is doing.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that starting spots should be held for Bagley and Diallo, i.e. the draft pick this year goes straight to the bench and Grant's replacement (assuming he's traded) goes straight to the bench. The draft pick absolutely should be slated as a starter. And if Grant is traded hopefully his replacement will be a starter too, but maybe he gets traded for a future first rounder and another young with potential type of player. But there's no guarantee that the draft pick doesn't wash out, thus Bagley and Diallo shouldn't be considered as "have flaws, dump them" players. If they can be kept on fair deals and still show potential, keep them on the bench and see what happens; they may be the best options to start at some point. And that's fine since no one should be expecting the Pistons to be rolling out the championship roster in 2022-23.

To get to the nuts and bolts of it, we've seen Bagley for 18 games playing for a new team. That's waaaaaaay too early to make a judgment about how he'll fit and play with this team; you can't use the situation in Sacramento as a barometer. If Bagley develops suitable defense in the post could he be the starting PF? I think so.

As far as Diallo goes, I will outright disagree that he hasn't improved. He hasn't CHANGED his game much, but he sure as hell has improved. There was a point last year where it was debatable whether the team should keep Diallo or Josh Jackson, and by the time JJ was traded it was no longer remotely close to being a subject of debate. And that's not because JJ got worse but because Diallo clearly distanced himself as having greater value. And quite frankly, I see Diallo as having one flaw that would keep him out of starting lineup consideration--he can't hit a 3. His PER numbers for last season were 18.0 PPG on 49.6%, 7.9 RPG, 2.1 APG, 2.0 STL, 0.5 BLK and 1.6 TO's. I don't see where that can't fit well next to Cade.

A lineup of Cade, Diallo and Bey gives you three guys who can put it on the floor and attack the basket and IF Diallo started hitting 3's at 33% or better, three guys who can also hurt you from outside. You pair that up with some improved defense from Bagley and let Stew just do what he does and you've got a lineup that can make some noise. Championship-level? Probably not. But certainly something that doesn't scream "No way this will work" on paper anyway. You'd have Cade at 20 PPG, Diallo at 18 PPG/7.9 RPG if he hits his PER numbers, Bey at 16 PPG if he does nothing differently, Bagley at 19 PPG/9 RPG if he can hit his PER numbers, and Stew at 8 PPG/9 RPG. That's 81 points from the starting lineup and that will play in the short term, for sure. That's definitely something you can roll with for a year if a Sharpe or a Chet get drafted and it's apparent from the start that they'd be better-suited coming off the bench their first year.

[NYPiston]

how long do you develop young guys for when they show only minimal/marginal improvement? diallo, bagley and frank jackson have been in the league for four years and have shown next to no improvement.

- diallo hasn't added a single element to his game since entering the league. he is still a complete non-shooter, has no dribble moves for himself to score and doesn't make plays for others. he provides energy, is a good cutter and crashes offensive boards which is how he came into the league.
- frank jackson hasn't added a single element to his game since entering the league. he is still largely an off-ball three point shooter who can attack the odd closeout. he provides no shot creation or play making and is a sieve defensively. that was his scouting report coming into the league.
- marvin bagley hasn't added a single element to his game since entering the league. he is still a non-shooter, has no perimeter skills, is still a black hole with the ball, and quite bad defensively. he provides energy, crashes offensive boards, has some post moves and is a solid finisher inside. he benefitted from having less post ups and being the recipient of lobs in the pick and roll but his scouting report is the same now as it was four years ago.

i know we can't turn over the roster every season but it isn't prudent to get attached to players that show no improvement just because they still have the "youth/potential" label. keeping players like diallo and bagley for a year or two on cheap deals to fill out the bench is one thing but counting them as part of the core is not a good way to build a team.

You're kind of making my point for me though.
Not one team has all players with no flaws, the Pistons are never going to have 12 Cade Cunninghams, guys with no real flaws. As long as you have players that fit your team and bring skills to the table that make your team better, they have a place on your team.

Diallo has the athleticism, ball hawking and slashing ability that nobody else on the Pistons has.
Bagley scores significantly better at the rim than any other Pistons forward does and is their only real lob threat.
Just because they have deficiencies doesn't mean they don't have a place on the team. 6th and 7th players have value too assuming that the Pistons find two starters this offseason to push them to the bench.
Diallo has a relatively cheap contract next season so I don't see the need to move him.
Bagley, depending on price, should be re-signed because, why would they just let him go otherwise?

When the team is more complete then perhaps guys like those won't have a significant role but, right now, the Pistons are still in the development phase and these guys are in their early 20s still so they should continue to develop them and see where a potential long term fit might be.

I even see "Trade Bey" talk. Really? That makes zero sense to me. A developing 2nd year player who took a sizeable leap with his offensive game last season is still on his rookie contract for two more years. Unless you're packaging him to bring in a franchise player, you don't trade him.

[Manocad]

Shoot, I wouldn't even considering trading Bey until after you know exactly which type of franchise player you need to make the team highly competitive. And again, that all depends on the draft pick and the Grant trade/no trade. Not one of those three moves (draft pick, Grant trade, big name FA signing/trade) should be made in a vacuum and quite frankly, they all shouldn't be made this year IMO other than the draft pick because it's required. Unless they trade the pick for a marquee player obviously but I wouldn't do that personally. I like the "build through the draft, finish it off through free agency" route.

The team already has a clear marquee/building block player in Cade. This year's draft pick could be the second. And I think we all agree that there may need to be a third name in there who's a bigger star than Grant and certainly bigger than Bey. But this year's pick is the starting point IMO.

[whitehops]

You're kind of making my point for me though.
Not one team has all players with no flaws, the Pistons are never going to have 12 Cade Cunninghams, guys with no real flaws. As long as you have players that fit your team and bring skills to the table that make your team better, they have a place on your team.

Diallo has the athleticism, ball hawking and slashing ability that nobody else on the Pistons has.
Bagley scores significantly better at the rim than any other Pistons forward does and is their only real lob threat.
Just because they have deficiencies doesn't mean they don't have a place on the team. 6th and 7th players have value too assuming that the Pistons find two starters this offseason to push them to the bench.
Diallo has a relatively cheap contract next season so I don't see the need to move him.
Bagley, depending on price, should be re-signed because, why would they just let him go otherwise?

When the team is more complete then perhaps guys like those won't have a significant role but, right now, the Pistons are still in the development phase and these guys are in their early 20s still so they should continue to develop them and see where a potential long term fit might be.

I even see "Trade Bey" talk. Really? That makes zero sense to me. A developing 2nd year player who took a sizeable leap with his offensive game last season is still on his rookie contract for two more years. Unless you're packaging him to bring in a franchise player, you don't trade him.

to the bolded: if we decline diallo's $5.2 mil team option next season and don't bring bagley back, we can use the extra cap space to try to bring in free agents like miles bridges, jalen brunson, collin sexton, anfernee simons, etc. those are players taken in the same draft as diallo and bagley except they've actually developed since coming into the league and are starting-calibre players.

but we are less able to bring in starting-calibre players when we've committed money to bench players. and after being in the league for four years already i think their lack of development is more telling of their potential than their current age.

and i agree, shopping bey doesn't make a lot of sense at this point. the difference is that he showed clear development from year 1 to 2 and added an element to his game. that's something diallo and bagley haven't done in four years.

[zeebneeb]

So basically the bench players play like...bench players. This is common in the NBA.

yeah, but you don't build your roster from the bench up. which is what prioritizing bringing back players like bagley is doing.

I have brought up a few points that I don't think anyone has addressed about Bagley;

Sacramento is the worst run team in the NBA, and Bagley was also under a terrible head coach in Walton for several years. Don't you think his game will improve under Casey? Casey is a horrendous X/O's coach, but damn good at player development.

Bagley, and Cade both shined when they played together. He had some damn good games, and that absolutely counts for something, right?

I hard disagree that Bagley is a bench player, or at least dont agree that he can't develope into a good starter. We don't have enough information yet.

[Manocad]

You're kind of making my point for me though.
Not one team has all players with no flaws, the Pistons are never going to have 12 Cade Cunninghams, guys with no real flaws. As long as you have players that fit your team and bring skills to the table that make your team better, they have a place on your team.

Diallo has the athleticism, ball hawking and slashing ability that nobody else on the Pistons has.
Bagley scores significantly better at the rim than any other Pistons forward does and is their only real lob threat.
Just because they have deficiencies doesn't mean they don't have a place on the team. 6th and 7th players have value too assuming that the Pistons find two starters this offseason to push them to the bench.
Diallo has a relatively cheap contract next season so I don't see the need to move him.
Bagley, depending on price, should be re-signed because, why would they just let him go otherwise?

When the team is more complete then perhaps guys like those won't have a significant role but, right now, the Pistons are still in the development phase and these guys are in their early 20s still so they should continue to develop them and see where a potential long term fit might be.

I even see "Trade Bey" talk. Really? That makes zero sense to me. A developing 2nd year player who took a sizeable leap with his offensive game last season is still on his rookie contract for two more years. Unless you're packaging him to bring in a franchise player, you don't trade him.

to the bolded: if we decline diallo's $5.2 mil team option next season and don't bring bagley back, we can use the extra cap space to try to bring in free agents like miles bridges, jalen brunson, collin sexton, anfernee simons, etc. those are players taken in the same draft as diallo and bagley except they've actually developed since coming into the league and are starting-calibre players.

but we are less able to bring in starting-calibre players when we've committed money to bench players. and after being in the league for four years already i think their lack of development is more telling of their potential than their current age.

and i agree, shopping bey doesn't make a lot of sense at this point. the difference is that he showed clear development from year 1 to 2 and added an element to his game. that's something diallo and bagley haven't done in four years.

Key word—try. Which can lead to overpaying. Now, certainly I personally don’t care about the money; if Gores wants to overpay and go deep into the luxury tax in order to put the best team together, have at it. But that’s probably not a likely scenario.

[ducler]

Taking a look at other lottery teams, I think we have the opportunity to Draft Sharpe between spots 1-4 maybe 1-5.

- Rockets have Green/Porter
- Magic can pick him but they just took Suggs last year and also have Anthony shining
- Thunder has Dort/Giddey/SGA
- Pacers can pick him, depends of what they're doing with Brogdon
- Blazers have Simons/Lillard
- Kings can pick him, sorry for him if that's the case
- Pelicans is a big question mark as they will need a PF more than a SG if they trade Zion
- Spurs can pick him but they also need frontcourt help
- Wizards have Beal, but for how much time? They currently need a PG more than anything
- Knicks can pick him
- Hornets have Rozier/Ball and need a C
- Cavs can pick him

[Pharaoh]

Anyone got quality clips of Sharpe. I'm struggling to find a decent scouting report of him on YouTube.

Still have him top 4 behind the big 3 but could easily bump him up a spot or 2 or maybe to #1 depending on what I see.

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some of the better, more detailed breakdowns on Sharpe imo:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yBuni36s0r6e1Bxt2rj094eZ919MhOX7igXA-21cxP0/edit

page 45-56 are on Sharpe
PDweb (the author of the article) is one of the more knowledgable high school scouts and he has as good a perspective on Sharpe as anyone. Has been scouting him for years.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-shaedon-sharpe-episode-with-jake-rosen/id1595712943?i=1000556602660
this podcast is also an excellent, detailed dissection of Sharpes game if you have an hour

adding this

Watch on YouTube

the best scouting breakdowns+1.5 hours of his film, thats about as much as you can ask for with his lack of high level competition

re: Sharpe, I think it's very unlikely he goes #1 on draft night, though he certainly could end up the number 1 player in hindsight.

I think Chet will go number 1, based on size/analytics/body of work. Sharpe has a chance to push up to #2, but i think its likely he ends up #3-5 on draft night.

Also everytime I watch Sharpe, I see shades of a modern Vince Carter

FWIW, you can get Sharpe at 101/1 odds at being the #1 pick right now if you're feeling lucky

Thank you

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[Pharaoh]

See a lot of Jalen Green in Sharpe in the first 10 minutes of that film session...

He's reads the floor better with the ball in his hands though.

Could easily see him and Cade being weapons together.

Question is what kind of mindset does Sharpe have? How will Cade impact that?

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[edmunder_prc]

See a lot of Jalen Green in Sharpe in the first 10 minutes of that film session...

He's reads the floor better with the ball in his hands though.

Could easily see him and Cade being weapons together.

Question is what kind of mindset does Sharpe have? How will Cade impact that?

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Jalen green is 6'6" with a 6'7" wingspan and Sharpe has a 7ft wingspan.

Their body types seem different to me with Sharpe having wider shoulders. Sharpe seems more built like a SF, especially in 5 years once he fills out. Would be nice to slot him as a big SG that could guard 1-3 too though.

[Kalamazoo317]

To be clear, since I got quoted a lot in this thread and then folks proceeded to defend Diallo:

I *like* Diallo. I like having him on the team. I'm not arguing for getting rid of him at all. I'd love to keep him on the team and continue to see him develop. I think he's probably the most exciting athlete on the team and was just plain fun to watch this season.

I'm simply predicting that I could see it happening. From what I've heard of talking heads on him, his off ball defense leaves a lot to be desired and from my own viewing, his non-transition off the ball offense leaves a lot to be desired. I'm not a cap expert, but if we really do go all-in on a big free agent like Brunson and retain Bagley, I'm not going to be shocked to see one or both of Frank Jackson and Diallo be cap casualties. I could also see the front office preferring Jackson over Diallo just due to floor spacing.

[Manocad]

See a lot of Jalen Green in Sharpe in the first 10 minutes of that film session...

He's reads the floor better with the ball in his hands though.

Could easily see him and Cade being weapons together.

Question is what kind of mindset does Sharpe have? How will Cade impact that?

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I don't see that as an issue. Let me tell you how that will work:
"We like you kid and we can see you turning into a star here. But being that this is Cade's team, this is the role you're going to play on Cade's team."

Obviously star players want to continue to be star players and be THE MAN, so they have a certain level of arrogance. But I don't think any 18 year old player anywhere would expect that he's going to come to this Pistons team with Cade and the team will mold around HIS mindset. If it was a crappy team filled with underperforming vets or young non-star players drafting a guy expecting to be the #1 option--like with Cade--maybe.

[buzzkilloton]

See a lot of Jalen Green in Sharpe in the first 10 minutes of that film session...

He's reads the floor better with the ball in his hands though.

Could easily see him and Cade being weapons together.

Question is what kind of mindset does Sharpe have? How will Cade impact that?

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM Forums mobile app

Jalen green is 6'6" with a 6'7" wingspan and Sharpe has a 7ft wingspan.

Their body types seem different to me with Sharpe having wider shoulders. Sharpe seems more built like a SF, especially in 5 years once he fills out. Would be nice to slot him as a big SG that could guard 1-3 too though.

Green is smaller but hes also a diff level of athlete. Not saying Sharpe isnt a top end athlete just that Green is in say the top 5 athletes in the NBA while Sharpe is like a top 3 athlete in THIS draft type athlete. Green would be pick 1 in this draft easily fwiw. Of course if Sharpe played this season and put up the numbers he could be a guy who potentially would be a special pick 1 looking prospect so there is that.

Yeah Sharpe with that size/length could potentially be a 3 one day. I like the idea of him as more of a 2 that can switch and force mismatches though. Having him and Cade in the backcourt gives us so much flexibility on the roster.

@pharaoh Hard to say about Sharpes mindset. We havent heard anything but good but u never know. The good thing for us is we have Cade already in place who is a leader. Cades one of those young players whos comes in and already is mature and a good example for a young player. Its not like our best player is Andre Drummond or something we can take care of the talent now.

[buzzkilloton]

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If this is to be believed by pure vert though Sharpe is at the top though. Of course there is more to being a athlete then pure vert. What makes Green is the quick twitch with the vert.

Anyways Sharpe top 4 for sure.