Run it Back or Upgrade?

[Canadafan]

bstein14-
If we operate as an above the cap team, Beasley could get up to our full MLE ($14.1 million in year one but could be something like 4 years $60+). THJ could then get $24 million with his bird rights and Schroeder could get $17 million. Because we waived Paul Reed and then resigned him he could only get the minimum from us, or we could use the BAE (bi-annual exception) which is about $5.1 million for 1 year or $10.3 over two seasons).

Crymson-
Schroder and THJ are eligible for far larger contracts than they'll get, $23 million in year one for Dennis and $54 million (the max) for Tim. Reed can receive only a little more than the minimum

Who's right here?

They’re both right.

Bstein is talking about what we could likely offer in that situation, operating as an over the cap team.
Crymson is talking about what they are eligible for in general from us.

Ah ok
Ew. I would not be giving hardaway more money than Shröder that's for sure

[bstein14]

bstein14-
If we operate as an above the cap team, Beasley could get up to our full MLE ($14.1 million in year one but could be something like 4 years $60+). THJ could then get $24 million with his bird rights and Schroeder could get $17 million. Because we waived Paul Reed and then resigned him he could only get the minimum from us, or we could use the BAE (bi-annual exception) which is about $5.1 million for 1 year or $10.3 over two seasons).

Crymson-
Schroder and THJ are eligible for far larger contracts than they'll get, $23 million in year one for Dennis and $54 million (the max) for Tim. Reed can receive only a little more than the minimum

Who's right here?

Crymson is probably correct in their "max" contracts.... I believe I put down their cap holds which is what they will count until they are resigned or waived. Obviously they will both get deals below their cap holds.... no chance we give someone like THJ a max contract.

[Canadafan]

bstein14-
If we operate as an above the cap team, Beasley could get up to our full MLE ($14.1 million in year one but could be something like 4 years $60+). THJ could then get $24 million with his bird rights and Schroeder could get $17 million. Because we waived Paul Reed and then resigned him he could only get the minimum from us, or we could use the BAE (bi-annual exception) which is about $5.1 million for 1 year or $10.3 over two seasons).

Crymson-
Schroder and THJ are eligible for far larger contracts than they'll get, $23 million in year one for Dennis and $54 million (the max) for Tim. Reed can receive only a little more than the minimum

Who's right here?

Crymson is probably correct in their "max" contracts.... I believe I put down their cap holds which is what they will count until they are resigned or waived. Obviously they will both get deals below their cap holds.... no chance we give someone like THJ a max contract.

Thanks alot. You and Crymson spew much knowledge lol.
Gonna be a fun summer. If Shröder accepts the 8.8mil exception then I could see us going that route. Beasley getting his 14mil either way. That leaves us some cap space leftover with Fontecchio and Sasser and draft picks for PJ or Portis
Cause the other way we give Shröder more money with bird rights, probably keep tim and give Beasley his 14mil MLE. Then we can't get a PF other than the little 5Mil exception.
Hmmmmmm.

Edit-as i write that, I think we just resign them all with bird rights and run it back. Use the 5mil exception on Reed or a backup PF type. Me=

[tmorgan]

It’s easy to get attached to the vets you already have, especially since we finally had a solid season. But that doesn’t make them the best or only options out there. I hope we shake it up a little.

Sasser’s the one guy that I think must go. We don’t have a role for him unless we have big injury issues, he deserves playing time, and he should have mild positive value in trade because he’s cheap, can score, and isn’t a sieve.

Tek may end up sticking around unless we’re successful at acquiring a better forward that can shoot. He struggled most of last year for sure, but he has a history of solid shooting without being much below average as an effort defender. Really good attitude, too. If he is dealt, he won’t return anything positive, because didn’t produce last year on his 8 mil contract.

Hardaway, unless he’s willing to sign dirt cheap (vet min) and play 9th man minutes, should be let go. He’s our absolutely worst defender, and while he has games as a real shooting threat, he’s not nearly as consistent as Beasley or Tobias. We also have plenty of 2’s and 3’s that need minutes. If we’re starting him again next season, I’ll be really disappointed.

Beasley seems to be priority number one, and he should be. He wants to stay, we need his bench scoring, and he helped the team vibe a ton. However, we need to be careful and gauge the market on him correctly. Yes, I’d go as high as the MLE (max 3 years, not 4) if necessary, but it really shouldn’t be. He’s an elite shooter, even contested, but that’s most of his value. 3/45 seems excessive in this current market. I don’t think anything under 10 gets it done, so that’s where I’d start.

Schroder is priority number two, as he really functioned well as backup PG and occasional second handler on the floor with Cade, and he kept it up in the playoffs. Still, if he wants the stability of staying here, he needs to understand his minutes won’t be as high with Ivey back and we can’t afford to pay him a lot. The 13 mil he made last year is absolutely not happening here. In the end, I’m guessing he walks because we can’t pay him want he wants. If I’m right, that means a different vet PG is on the shopping list.

Tobias is already under contract and should stay. He was really solid, fits in the locker room, and is paid properly for a productive vet. After next year, he’ll need to get paid less if he wants to stay, but that’s a future problem.

Reed can get another vet min here if he wants it. Good depth big.

We need to sign a shooting big. We’ve already talked through a lot of options on this board. My preference for first offer-ee is Aldama. Won’t be cheap if we’re stealing him from Memphis, but I’d put that offer out first and see what happens. 3/60, perhaps scares them off? Not sure.

No change to Cade, Ivey, Holland, Ausar, Stew and Duren for now, though I definitely understand frustration with Ivey and Duren’s defensive efforts. Wouldn’t be that sad to see either go, but it better be for current help that fits in with our upcoming salary issues.

[Snakebites]

It’s easy to get attached to the vets you already have, especially since we finally had a solid season. But that doesn’t make them the best or only options out there. I hope we shake it up a little.

Sasser’s the one guy that I think must go. We don’t have a role for him unless we have big injury issues, he deserves playing time, and he should have mild positive value in trade because he’s cheap, can score, and isn’t a sieve.

Tek may end up sticking around unless we’re successful at acquiring a better forward that can shoot. He struggled most of last year for sure, but he has a history of solid shooting without being much below average as an effort defender. Really good attitude, too. If he is dealt, he won’t return anything positive, because didn’t produce last year on his 8 mil contract.

Hardaway, unless he’s willing to sign dirt cheap (vet min) and play 9th man minutes, should be let go. He’s our absolutely worst defender, and while he has games as a real shooting threat, he’s not nearly as consistent as Beasley or Tobias. We also have plenty of 2’s and 3’s that need minutes. If we’re starting him again next season, I’ll be really disappointed.

Beasley seems to be priority number one, and he should be. He wants to stay, we need his bench scoring, and he helped the team vibe a ton. However, we need to be careful and gauge the market on him correctly. Yes, I’d go as high as the MLE (max 3 years, not 4) if necessary, but it really shouldn’t be. He’s an elite shooter, even contested, but that’s most of his value. 3/45 seems excessive in this current market. I don’t think anything under 10 gets it done, so that’s where I’d start.

Schroder is priority number two, as he really functioned well as backup PG and occasional second handler on the floor with Cade, and he kept it up in the playoffs. Still, if he wants the stability of staying here, he needs to understand his minutes won’t be as high with Ivey back and we can’t afford to pay him a lot. The 13 mil he made last year is absolutely not happening here. In the end, I’m guessing he walks because we can’t pay him want he wants. If I’m right, that means a different vet PG is on the shopping list.

Tobias is already under contract and should stay. He was really solid, fits in the locker room, and is paid properly for a productive vet. After next year, he’ll need to get paid less if he wants yo stay, but that’s a future problem.

Reed can get another vet min here if he wants it. Good depth big.

We need to sign a shooting big. We’ve already talked through a lot of options on this board. My preference for first offer-ee is Aldama. Won’t be cheap if we’re stealing him from Memphis, but I’d put that offer out first and see what happens. 3/60, perhaps scares them off? Not sure.

No change to Cade, Ivey, Holland, Ausar, Stew and Duren for now, though I definitely understand frustration with Ivey and Duren’s defensive efforts. Wouldn’t be that sad to see either go, but it better be for current help that fits in with our upcoming salary issues.

I'm not seeing a lot of fans who are particularly attached to Sasser, Fontecchio, and Hardaway.

To make a serious upgrade will require more subtraction than those 3 guys. THJ is a guy I think most understand will likely be gone unless he takes a paycut. Sasser/Fontecchio is at best a neutral value trade package.

[Canadafan]

Ya I'm not attached to those 3 guys at all either.
Id luv Aldama but we can't afford him if we're signing Beasley. Under cap or over cap, Beasley getting the most of our money.

[tmorgan]

Unless my math is off (not going thru it all here), we can afford Aldama at 20 and keeping Beasley. It would likely mean Dennis is gone, and the new PG would need to be cheap.

[zeebneeb]

Pistons have many options for an upgrade at the 4, and a longer term fit. Bunch of teams performed below expectations.

4 1rsts to trade, along with a bucket of seconds. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

[Snakebites]

The "core" guy I'm the most open to moving is Duren since I'm just not sold on his ability to improve defensively and think he might still have some value. Trading him would likely require making some sort of a move for a replacement bigman (or involve one coming back to us in the deal) but I don't necessarily see that as an insurmountable barrier.

Trading Ivey would be an extreme sell-low. He's definitely not untouchable but I doubt we'll get enough for him to justify moving him until he's got some solid games under his belt.

Neither Ausar nor Holland have proven themselves as clear starters but their potential means it would take a pretty impressive offer to move them.

[Crymson]

Unless my math is off (not going thru it all here), we can afford Aldama at 20 and keeping Beasley. It would likely mean Dennis is gone, and the new PG would need to be cheap.

It's off. The Pistons will have only about $16.5 million in cap space if they renounce all free agents, and operating as a below-the-cap team would leave them with only the Room MLE ($8.5 million) to offer Beasley. Unless the market for him is truly awful, that wouldn't be enough.

The only quality PGs in this class are Schroder, Tyus, Russell, and the 40-year-old shell of Chris Paul. It's unlikely that the Pistons could afford any of them outside of maybe CP3, who could easily return to the Spurs at better than the BAE or go chase a ring with a contender in what very well might be his final season.

I think the Pistons were somewhat rash in entering this season with only two handlers and no real backup handler -- Ivey is more off-guard than lead handler -- and it showed, especially because that left them only an injury to one of those two away from having only one viable handler on the entire roster (which, of course, happened). I personally doubt they'd go that route again, and I think Schroder was very helpful.

The "core" guy I'm the most open to moving is Duren since I'm just not sold on his ability to improve defensively and think he might still have some value. Trading him would likely require making some sort of a move for a replacement bigman (or involve one coming back to us in the deal) but I don't necessarily see that as an insurmountable barrier.

Unfortunately, the very flaws that make Duren expendable would presumably limit his trade value. But the organization may very well end up moving on from him after next season anyway, if he doesn't make the massive defensive improvement they require from him.

Trading Ivey would be an extreme sell-low. He's definitely not untouchable but I doubt we'll get enough for him to justify moving him until he's got some solid games under his belt.

Agreed. He just doesn't have much of a track record at this point, thanks to this season's injury and last season's coach.

Neither Ausar nor Holland have proven themselves as clear starters but their potential means it would take a pretty impressive offer to move them.

I think it goes both ways: because they're raw and largely just potential right now, they don't have as much trade value as they might after another season.

[Snakebites]

Unfortunately, the very flaws that make Duren expendable would presumably limit his trade value. But the organization may very well end up moving on from him after next season anyway, if he doesn't make the massive defensive improvement they require from him.

We won't get a kings ransom for him, though he does appear to be worth at least what the Lakers were willing to give up for Williams. He's got some value.

Some may not be thrilled with a package like that but if he's not going to be worth what he'll cost to extend...

[Canadafan]

Alrighty.
So, who's an option for us to give the BAE of $5.1million to?
Cause it sounds like we might be generous and take care of our guys(THJr+Shröder)using their bird rights. Beasley with the full MLE. Bring the whole gang back and give Reed the 5.1 possibly too.
If we operate as a cap space team, we could play hardball and offer Shröder the $8.8Room exception. Let THJr go unless he takes 10yr vetmin.. Get Beasley to take less than 14 so we can use remaining cap space in a trade for PF.. We'd have to trade Fontecchio +Sasser+5mil of our space to be in on PJ or Porris trade.. Which means Beasley would have to take $11mil..
Doubt all that happens though.

At least going into trade deadline we'll have tradeable vets. Tobias, THJr, Fontecchio, Reed. Even Shröder. Lots of options for matching a bigger contract whilst we add 1st rounders to try and get us a better player.

So if not on Reed, who do we use the $5.1 on?
Any options u guys see out there?

[bstein14]

One of the biggest takeaways from TL at his year end presser was the fact that he's wanting to continue both developing and evaluating the young talent on the roster. That IMO is a pretty big indicator that we're unlikely to make any type of big splash. I think most likely we add one more rotation piece that's between 5th starter to 8th man on the roster but overall highly unlikely we go out and get a #2 guy that will just take away looks from the other young pieces we're trying to develop and evaluate. I think its more likely we make a move at the deadline than during the offseason.... if we're within the 4-6 seed range at the deadline again I can see a move to propel us into a spot to try and be more likely to win a playoff series.

[Crymson]

We won't get a kings ransom for him, though he does appear to be worth at least what the Lakers were willing to give up for Williams. He's got some value.

Some may not be thrilled with a package like that but if he's not going to be worth what he'll cost to extend...

That's assuming he drew the same offer as Williams, which isn't certain -- according to ESPN, Luka was given a list of potential roll men by management and chose Williams.

Even if so, I think that may have been a one-time-thing sort of offer. The Lakers were searching for an athletic big to pair with Luka -- and to just be a center in general, as the best the Lakers had after trading AD was Jaxson Hayes -- in the postseason, and the field was narrow. I think they'll be less pressed for options in the offseason.

I'd also imagine that any illusions they might have had about Duren's defense were wiped away in the postseason.

[the_l_train]

We won't get a kings ransom for him, though he does appear to be worth at least what the Lakers were willing to give up for Williams. He's got some value.

Some may not be thrilled with a package like that but if he's not going to be worth what he'll cost to extend...

That's assuming he drew the same offer as Williams, which isn't certain -- according to ESPN, Luka was given a list of potential roll men by management and chose Williams.

Even if so, I think that may have been a one-time-thing sort of offer. The Lakers were searching for an athletic big to pair with Luka -- and to just be a center in general, as the best the Lakers had after trading AD was Jaxson Hayes -- in the postseason, and the field was narrow. I think they'll be less pressed for options in the offseason.

I'd also imagine that any illusions they might have had about Duren's defense were wiped away in the postseason.

I really doubt the Lakers staff were unaware of Durens defensive deficiencies when they offered the trade…he is still leaps and bounds better than their current options, and I am sure the same offer is still on the table.

They clearly regret the Knecht pick, and we were smart to reject that.

I figure if there is any moves involving Duren to the Lakers, a third team will be involved. If Reaves has any involvement, he won’t be coming here based on his refusal to come here on draft day. I know we are in a different state as an organization, but I wouldn’t touch him either since he’d be a flight risk.

[Crymson]

I really doubt the Lakers staff were unaware of Durens defensive deficiencies when they offered the trade…he is still leaps and bounds better than their current options, and I am sure the same offer is still on the table.

I doubt they were unaware of Williams' deficiencies on defense either, but they hadn't seen either of the two play in the postseason. In any case, options were much more limited at that point; they were seeking a postseason solution in what was sure to be one of LeBron's final seasons. And though I don't mean to be a pedant, we don't know if that offer was on the table for Duren in the first place. If it was, I doubt it is now, even if only because the Lakers are not in a trade deadline pinch.

They clearly regret the Knecht pick, and we were smart to reject that.

I'm so sure they regretted it. He was solid enough for the Lakers, and he was a good get at #17 for a win-now Lakers roster. But it's no surprise to me that he was considered expendable; while he was likely to be a solid bench-caliber shooting specialist, he was unlikely to ever be more than that.

I figure if there is any moves involving Duren to the Lakers, a third team will be involved. If Reaves has any involvement, he won’t be coming here based on his refusal to come here on draft day. I know we are in a different state as an organization, but I wouldn’t touch him either since he’d be a flight risk.

Reaves has substantially more trade value at this point than Duren does. If the Lakers are of a mind to trade him for a center, I'd imagine they'll trade him for a postseason-caliber center who's a known quantity.

As for Reaves himself, he had nothing against Detroit in particular. He turned down every team in the draft that intended to sign him to a two-way contract, as he judged (correctly) that it made more sense for him to choose his own team if a two-way contract was ultimately going to be his entry into the NBA. In that event, a relatively shallow team like the Lakers offered him much more opportunity than a rebuilding team such the Pistons on which he'd be prioritized behind a bunch of other youth.

Weaver, in his infinite wisdom, refused to offer Reaves a standard NBA contract. When, as a result, Reaves told the Pistons to not draft him, Weaver moved on instead to Livers... and signed him to a standard NBA contract.

[the_l_train]

I really doubt the Lakers staff were unaware of Durens defensive deficiencies when they offered the trade…he is still leaps and bounds better than their current options, and I am sure the same offer is still on the table.

I doubt they were unaware of Williams' deficiencies on defense either, but they hadn't seen either of the two play in the postseason. In any case, options were much more limited at that point; they were seeking a postseason solution in what was sure to be one of LeBron's final seasons. And though I don't mean to be a pedant, we don't know if that offer was on the table for Duren in the first place. If it was, I doubt it is now, even if only because the Lakers are not in a trade deadline pinch.

They clearly regret the Knecht pick, and we were smart to reject that.

I'm so sure they regretted it. He was solid enough for the Lakers, and he was a good get at #17 for a win-now Lakers roster. But it's no surprise to me that he was considered expendable; while he was likely to be a solid bench-caliber shooting specialist, he was unlikely to ever be more than that.

I figure if there is any moves involving Duren to the Lakers, a third team will be involved. If Reaves has any involvement, he won’t be coming here based on his refusal to come here on draft day. I know we are in a different state as an organization, but I wouldn’t touch him either since he’d be a flight risk.

Reaves has substantially more trade value at this point than Duren does. If the Lakers are of a mind to trade him for a center, I'd imagine they'll trade him for a postseason-caliber center who's a known quantity.

As for Reaves himself, he had nothing against Detroit in particular. He turned down every team in the draft that intended to sign him to a two-way contract, as he judged (correctly) that it made more sense for him to choose his own team if a two-way contract was ultimately going to be his entry into the NBA. In that event, a relatively shallow team like the Lakers offered him much more opportunity than a rebuilding team such the Pistons on which he'd be prioritized behind a bunch of other youth.

Weaver, in his infinite wisdom, refused to offer Reaves a standard NBA contract. When, as a result, Reaves told the Pistons to not draft him, Weaver moved on instead to Livers... and signed him to a standard NBA contract.

I take offense when we try to draft a guy, and he says no thanks, I'd prefer to go undrafted then go to Detroit. Smart choice for him or not, it's a frontrunner move, and I look at it like he's running away from the grind.

When he was on the All the Smoke pod, he was laughing and agreeing when Matt Barnes was talking his **** "Detroit should not be on anybody's tier". I'd want no part of somebody who doesn't want to be here --- Weaver tried to get him, so no need to throw him under the bus for that one.

Reaves is on my **** list along with Trey Lyles and Bonzi Wells for dudes who don't deserve to wear a Pistons jersey, no matter the situation.

[tmorgan]

Any anti-Detroit list has to include that knucklehead Jalen Green.

[the_l_train]

Any anti-Detroit list has to include that knucklehead Jalen Green.

I'd happily add him --- I figure it's just being salty we didn't take him #1, but didn't realize he openly said anything negative about us.

[tmorgan]

Any anti-Detroit list has to include that knucklehead Jalen Green.

I'd happily add him --- I figure it's just being salty we didn't take him #1, but didn't realize he openly said anything negative about us.

It's safe to say Detroit Pistons players, coaches and staff might be circling a game against the Houston Rockets. The Detroit fans certainly will.

Hey, Jalen Green, when you come to Little Caesars Arena: Prepared to be booed. A lot.

The No. 2 pick in the NBA draft three weeks ago by the Rockets ripped the city of Detroit in a story published Monday.

Green, 19, who worked out with both the Pistons and Rockets in each city prior to the July 29 draft, where the Pistons took Cade Cunningham with the No. 1 pick, said he "didn't want to be in Detroit," and compared the city to "the G League bubble."