Game 22: Magic (8-12) @ Pistons (11-10) - 6 PM EST

engelbert321 · Post #281 » by **engelbert321** » Mon Dec 5, 2016 1:35 am

Once again, the suggestion of inserting Reggie Jackson as the 6th man is about balance and maximizing EVERYONE'S capabilities, not which players suck and who doesn't. This is the Pistons' forum, not the Reggie Jackson/Andre Drummond/KCP forum. Goodnight.

flow · Post #282 » by **flow** » Mon Dec 5, 2016 1:36 am

Blkbrd671 wrote:
MrBigShot wrote:The board went from bench Ish start Beno to start Ish over Reggie in like a week. It's his first game back and he had 18/4 in 23 mins.

We lost this game because of awful collective defense and really underwhelming games offensively for KCP & Tobias.

first game back so total overreaction and we probably need to give RJ 10+ games before a fair eval, but one thing that is concerning is his effort on the defensive end has not changed and the assertion that him getting his own offense is our best chance to win.

Offensively the ball is sticking in his hands too long and he's ignoring other players mismatches and sometimes even the offensive set. He doesn't push the ball at all off defensive rebounds which wouldn't be as upsetting if he actually played d.

Defensively he's playing exactly like last year, more trying to look like he's trying than actually trying on D

Only reason i want Ish to start is because i think he sets the tone much better from the beginning of the game especially defensively, and it allows RJ to have extra energy in the 4th where he really thrives. In the end Ish still gets backup minutes and RJ starter, its just setting the tone.

Again this is a complete overreaction but food for thought

Nothing in you post is an overreaction. That's the player Reggie has always been.

.

engelbert321 · Post #283 » by **engelbert321** » Mon Dec 5, 2016 1:38 am

Blkbrd671 wrote:
MrBigShot wrote:The board went from bench Ish start Beno to start Ish over Reggie in like a week. It's his first game back and he had 18/4 in 23 mins.

We lost this game because of awful collective defense and really underwhelming games offensively for KCP & Tobias.

first game back so total overreaction and we probably need to give RJ 10+ games before a fair eval, but one thing that is concerning is his effort on the defensive end has not changed and the assertion that him getting his own offense is our best chance to win.

Offensively the ball is sticking in his hands too long and he's ignoring other players mismatches and sometimes even the offensive set. He doesn't push the ball at all off defensive rebounds which wouldn't be as upsetting if he actually played d.

Defensively he's playing exactly like last year, more trying to look like he's trying than actually trying on D

Only reason i want Ish to start is because i think he sets the tone much better from the beginning of the game especially defensively, and it allows RJ to have extra energy in the 4th where he really thrives. In the end Ish still gets backup minutes and RJ starter, its just setting the tone.

Again this is a complete overreaction but food for thought

This is what I'm thinking as well. Reggie would benefit so much from coming off the bench but with still having heavy minutes. He probably could even play a little bit of the 2 spot since we don't have anyone worth a damn backing up KCP

Post #284 » by **Cowology** » Mon Dec 5, 2016 1:40 am

KCP looks like the player most negatively effected by the insertion of Reggie into the starting lineup. Not unexpected but precisely why I wanted Reggie off the bench for his first few games.

Hopefully it won't take too long for us to get our balance and ball movement back.

MrBigShot · Post #285 » by **MrBigShot** » Mon Dec 5, 2016 1:45 am

Alright then if it isn't an overreaction, someone please link to a post suggesting we make Reggie the 6th man long-term and start Ish prior to tonight. I'll wait.

18 posts in the "phasing in Reggie" thread and not a single suggestion that we make him a 6th man permanently. Suddenly we lose against the Magic in his first game back and a couple of posters have an epiphany? What happens if Ish goes into a slump, will we go back to suggesting we bench him for Beno again?

Going to need something more than "balance" to try and justify replacing our starting PG. Reggie averaged 7.3 apg last year per 36 vs 7.8 apg for Ish per 36 this season. Ish does take much better care of the ball, there's no doubt about that. But he's also a worse 3pt shooter, a far worse scorer, and he didn't lead the NBA in points in the last 3 minutes last season either. Don't think that benching the guy you handed out a 5/80 contract to that was your best player last season for a back up earning 7 mil per wont have other ramifications either. It's just mind bogglingly how the narrative can switch after a week. Ish has no synergy with Drummond, he sucks, start Beno over him and then a week later lets start him.

Edit: If Hilliard has another performance like tonight's SVG might end up giving Stanley a shot to win back his place in the rotation, hopefully Stanley capitalizes on it if he does.

whitehops · Post #286 » by **whitehops** » Mon Dec 5, 2016 1:47 am

i'm gonna start by saying this was a great defensive performance by the magic. ibaka and biyombo are great at defending the pick and roll and their guards/wings can play athletic and aggressively off the ball.

it was a tough matchup for reggie in his first game back and i don't think he was rusty at all with his shooting or anything like that, mainly in his decision making (specifically the speed of his decisions). i'm sure that will get fixed soon once he starts playing more. the playoff series vs. cleveland was a good example of him making good, quick decisions and getting the ball moving quickly when trapped. today he was hesitant looking to pass out of the trap and with a defense like orlando's you can't waste that time. the only other thing i noticed where he showed some rust on defense. there were some plays where he would turn his body and run instead of sliding in front of his defender and maintaining a solid, square base. i don't know if that's him still not trusting his knee 100% or what but it was odd to see him do that. it was classic reggie though and you have to love his ability to get into the paint.

guys like harris, leuer, KCP didn't have as big impacts as usual but i'm not concerned about that going against a good defensive team.

dre was definitely better in the fourth quarter but was bad before that and super frustrating to watch in the third quarter. he was clearly giving poor effort and i just shook my head when he would call for a post up in a crowded lane, not get passed to, and then run back down the court as the shot was going up.

darrun hilliard had a terrible game. it was frustrating to watch and his turnover in the first half before he got benched for SJ was brutal but i think he's still earned the backup SG role over SJ for now.

big game vs. chicago on tuesday, looking forward to it.

detroitKG · Post #287 » by **detroitKG** » Mon Dec 5, 2016 1:51 am

Read on Twitter

Blkbrd671 · Post #288 » by **Blkbrd671** » Mon Dec 5, 2016 2:10 am

MrBigShot wrote:Alright then if it isn't an overreaction, someone please link to a post suggesting we make Reggie the 6th man long-term and start Ish prior to tonight. I'll wait.

18 posts in the "phasing in Reggie" thread and not a single suggestion that we make him a 6th man permanently. Suddenly we lose against the Magic in his first game back and a couple of posters have an epiphany? What happens if Ish goes into a slump, will we go back to suggesting we bench him for Beno again?

Going to need something more than "balance" to try and justify replacing our starting PG. Reggie averaged 7.3 apg last year per 36 vs 7.8 apg for Ish per 36 this season. Ish does take much better care of the ball, there's no doubt about that. But he's also a worse 3pt shooter, a far worse scorer, and he didn't lead the NBA in points in the last 3 minutes last season either. Don't think that benching the guy you handed out a 5/80 contract to that was your best player last season for a back up earning 7 mil per wont have other ramifications either. It's just mind bogglingly how the narrative can switch after a week. Ish has no synergy with Drummond, he sucks, start Beno over him and then a week later lets start him.

Edit: If Hilliard has another performance like tonight's SVG might end up giving Stanley a shot to win back his place in the rotation, hopefully Stanley capitalizes on it if he does.

just to be clear, i was stating "I" was overreacting in my post, not indicating you are

tmorgan · Post #289 » by **tmorgan** » Mon Dec 5, 2016 2:14 am

I hope Marcus is calling some of his teammates pussies after this one.

Han Solo · Post #290 » by **Han Solo** » Mon Dec 5, 2016 2:14 am

flow wrote:
mercury wrote:Sad how easily fair weathers give up on their team.

No one on here is fair weather. Some folks get overly optimistic and then vent their disappointment, but that's different.

.

Good post.. Anyone that takes time out of their lives to post in a Pistons forum is in no way fair-weather. Some of us may be a little crazy at times, but everyone here loves this team in their own way.

PistonsSince85 · Post #291 » by **PistonsSince85** » Mon Dec 5, 2016 2:18 am

What about throwing Gbinije into the rotation?

Han Solo · Post #292 » by **Han Solo** » Mon Dec 5, 2016 2:20 am

The Hilliard experiment is over in my opinion.. We have a top 10 pick that needs developed and Hilliard hasn't done enough to have him sit in my opinion.. Stanley needs to play.

MrBigShot · Post #293 » by **MrBigShot** » Mon Dec 5, 2016 2:20 am

Blkbrd671 wrote:
just to be clear, i was stating "I" was overreacting in my post, not indicating you are

No worries man I understood what you were saying, I was addressing other posts.

Kudos to you for acknowledging that though, everyone is entitled to their own opinion but hey...personally I think if someone is going to suggest something as radical as benching our best player last season and starting PG after playing his first game in 8 months I think they should maybe preface it by admitting they just might possibly be jumping the gun a little bit.

Han Solo · Post #294 » by **Han Solo** » Mon Dec 5, 2016 2:24 am

Reggie will be fine.. There will be games he wins for us this year. He's got good chemistry with Dre. Getting KCP involved is on SVG and figuring it out. Ish won't start over Reggie. If we need to play guys together at certain times, SVG needs to figure that out.

Han Solo · Post #295 » by **Han Solo** » Mon Dec 5, 2016 2:26 am

60 games left.. A lot of time left.

The Moose · Post #296 » by **The Moose** » Mon Dec 5, 2016 2:36 am

Han Solo wrote:60 games left.. A lot of time left.

I want to win 39 of them :nod:

Post #297 » by **Cowology** » Mon Dec 5, 2016 2:37 am

Han Solo wrote:The Hilliard experiment is over in my opinion.. We have a top 10 pick that needs developed and Hilliard hasn't done enough to have him sit in my opinion.. Stanley needs to play.

Yeah, I dunno what Stanley did to land himself in the dog house... but Hilliard isn't doing much to earn those minutes either. If they are both gonna suck I'd rather play the guy with the higher ceiling.

Han Solo · Post #298 » by **Han Solo** » Mon Dec 5, 2016 2:37 am

The Moose wrote:
Han Solo wrote:60 games left.. A lot of time left.

I want to win 39 of them

Meeee too..

OrlandoDream · Post #299 » by **OrlandoDream** » Mon Dec 5, 2016 2:46 am

detroitKG wrote:

Read on Twitter

God I miss Stan! His press conference was one of my favorite parts of the game. He's the type of guy who says it like it is. He will call out players who played bad and stick up for those who put in the effort. Always a great coach.

Anyways, GG fellas. Til next time.

DarkSyde · Post #300 » by **DarkSyde** » Mon Dec 5, 2016 3:21 am

Damn I missed the game. How did Reggie look? 18 points, 4 assists, 3 turnovers. I was worried about breaking the chemistry that Ish Smith had with the starters. His getting the ball the down the court, quick penetration, passing the ball to the open shooters will be missed.

I don't like how Reggie slows the game down. It gives everyone tree trunk legs.