Hot and Heavy with the Hawks (Drummond Trade Rumors go National)

BadMofoPimp · Post #321 » by **BadMofoPimp** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 3:09 pm

Canadafan wrote:^^^heard Nursik is on the way back soon though

Imagine Nursic and Drummond fortifying their front line for 48mpg. Maybe, even play those twin towers together for 5-10 minutes per game with CJ and Damian outside on the wings. Wow. . .

Invictus88 · Post #322 » by **Invictus88** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:10 pm

The latest word about the Hawks makes a lot of sense. Dre's camp is still having a difficult time coming to grips with reality. If you thought the Dre hate was bad now, imagine if just wait until he isn't traded and opts in....

Post #323 » by **Snakebites** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:22 pm

Eh.

I wouldn’t hate Dre for opting in. Wouldn't even blame him. You negotiate a contract that gives you the best options you possibly can. He can’t be asked to give up that much money if it’s not in his best interests. If he’s not worth that it’s the organization’s fault for signing him to 5 years.

I don’t hate Dre. He’s just not worth what he’d cost to this team, and that’s even assuming he comes down on his demands, which he’ll eventually have to.

Plus, if we don’t trade him, is having him for one more year REALLY that bad? It’s not like we need the money he’d free up next year.

If Dre is still seeking a max contract that's going to scare teams off. That's just the reality. And it's unfortunate, but it is what it is.

Laimbeer · Post #324 » by **Laimbeer** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:11 pm

Feels like Drummond trade talk was kicking the tires on a retool, not step one in a tear down. We probably have Blake for a couple more seasons, and nobody is touching him on that deal now. Now they'll see what Dre does, possibly extend him, and fill in the blanks as they happen.

Drwho17 · Post #325 » by **Drwho17** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:16 pm

Right, this is a good thing, Andre Drummond is a good player, just not worth what he is being paid, if Atlanta is not even willing to get crazy with him, then maybe the rest of league won't.

Invictus88 · Post #326 » by **Invictus88** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:25 pm

Snakebites wrote:Eh.

I wouldn’t hate Dre for opting in. Wouldn't even blame him. You negotiate a contract that gives you the best options you possibly can. He can’t be asked to give up that much money if it’s not in his best interests. If he’s not worth that it’s the organization’s fault for signing him to 5 years.

I don’t hate Dre. He’s just not worth what he’d cost to this team, and that’s even assuming he comes down on his demands, which he’ll eventually have to.

Plus, if we don’t trade him, is having him for one more year REALLY that bad? It’s not like we need the money he’d free up next year.

If Dre is still seeking a max contract that's going to scare teams off. That's just the reality. And it's unfortunate, but it is what it is.

This is a very rational take and I agree 100%. However, whether you or I think it prudent that he take the money and whether I think he will receive hate/frustration for it and leaving for likely nothing at the end of the season (especially here) are two very, very different things.

Although I will say this. I can do without the cringe-worthy moments that occur each game because of poor decision-making. Oh yes. That I can very well do without.

DBC10 · Post #327 » by **DBC10** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:42 pm

Drwho17 wrote:Right, this is a good thing, Andre Drummond is a good player, just not worth what he is being paid, if Atlanta is not even willing to get crazy with him, then maybe the rest of league won't.

Go as high as Clint Capela's deal and if he balks than it's time for mutual parting.

That's totally reasonable and fair. I'm not expecting to gain any assets while we have him under contract this or next year. Considering it'll more or less be the same market conditions for centers like him next year.

Post #328 » by **Snakebites** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:44 pm

Invictus88 wrote:
Snakebites wrote:Eh.

I wouldn’t hate Dre for opting in. Wouldn't even blame him. You negotiate a contract that gives you the best options you possibly can. He can’t be asked to give up that much money if it’s not in his best interests. If he’s not worth that it’s the organization’s fault for signing him to 5 years.

I don’t hate Dre. He’s just not worth what he’d cost to this team, and that’s even assuming he comes down on his demands, which he’ll eventually have to.

Plus, if we don’t trade him, is having him for one more year REALLY that bad? It’s not like we need the money he’d free up next year.

If Dre is still seeking a max contract that's going to scare teams off. That's just the reality. And it's unfortunate, but it is what it is.

This is a very rational take and I agree 100%. However, whether you or I think it prudent that he take the money and whether I think he will receive hate/frustration for it and leaving for likely nothing at the end of the season (especially here) are two very, very different things.

Although I will say this. I can do without the cringe-worthy moments that occur each game because of poor decision-making. Oh yes. That I can very well do without.

He’ll get hate. He just won’t deserve it. Certainly not for that.

bstein14 · Post #329 » by **bstein14** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:50 pm

If Drummond would have signed a 4 year $100 million extension this past summer like Draymond Green did most of us would probably be fine with him staying here, even though that is still a bit overpaid for a guy who is a borderline all-star but doesn't have a big enough of a positive impact on winning and losing for us.

Anything more than $25 million per year over 4 years you have to let him walk this summer even if we can't find a trade for him now. Him opting in actually isn't the worst thing because we likely weren't doing much with cap space anyways and it gives us another year to try to move him or evaluate him further to see if he can change his game in a way that more significantly impacts our W/L (mainly becoming a dominant defensive anchor, and turning the ball over less).

I have been a bit of a Drummond hater for years but even I can admit he is a good above average center, he just isn't someone you can win giving max dollars to. Honestly it feels like we often didn't lose much when Baynes was in backing him up and it feels lately like we don't loose too much when Wood is in instead.

Morris made a great comment last night after the win, that the team rebounds better when Dre isn't on the floor because it becomes and emphasis for everyone else to go after them. I think in many ways he is right, especially once you get a healthy Blake back next year losing Dre's rebounding isn't going to be a huge detriment that costs us 10 wins a year its something you can mostly make up by committee.

440BB · Post #330 » by **440BB** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:55 pm

Markieff spoke the truth that most general managers may realize.

Billl · Post #331 » by **Billl** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:20 pm

Our team might well do that, but that's a problem with our team, not great rebounders. We led the league in rebounding differential with a prime ben wallace. The worst rebounder in that lineup was chauncey, and he pulled in 3.4. We've shuffled lineups so often this year that it's hard to compare, but snell has been a staple and he's at 1.8. And really, in an era when everyone shoots a ton of 3's, your rebounding number for perimeter players should be going up.

Kilo · Post #332 » by **Kilo** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:24 pm

At least Dre got an outside opinion of his market value. He opts in and we have a huge expiring going into the Giannis free agency off-season and it would save us from giving FVV, Lowry or DDR silly money this offseason just because we have the money to spend.

DetroitSho · Post #333 » by **DetroitSho** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:32 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:I can see nobody buying Drummond, he opts to go the free agent route and ends up getting a Monroe deal that is much less than he anticipated with some other team out of spite since he didn't get what he wanted here.

I'm not following this logic as Monroe signed a max contract when he left the Pistons, not some lowball deal out of spite.

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bstein14 · Post #334 » by **bstein14** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:45 pm

KCP was the guy that really got burned asking for big money, and it could have been much worse if his agent didn't get money from the Lakers for KCP since Lebron was heading that way.

Billl · Post #335 » by **Billl** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:57 pm

Moose got paid - not max money - but he got $17 mil/yr. Dre seems to be expecting a raise from $28M and it looks like he's going to be wildly disappointed.

Manocad · Post #336 » by **Manocad** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:34 pm

bstein14 wrote:If Drummond would have signed a 4 year $100 million extension this past summer like Draymond Green did most of us would probably be fine with him staying here, even though that is still a bit overpaid for a guy who is a borderline all-star but doesn't have a big enough of a positive impact on winning and losing for us.

Anything more than $25 million per year over 4 years you have to let him walk this summer even if we can't find a trade for him now. Him opting in actually isn't the worst thing because we likely weren't doing much with cap space anyways and it gives us another year to try to move him or evaluate him further to see if he can change his game in a way that more significantly impacts our W/L (mainly becoming a dominant defensive anchor, and turning the ball over less).

I have been a bit of a Drummond hater for years but even I can admit he is a good above average center, he just isn't someone you can win giving max dollars to. Honestly it feels like we often didn't lose much when Baynes was in backing him up and it feels lately like we don't loose too much when Wood is in instead.

Morris made a great comment last night after the win, that the team rebounds better when Dre isn't on the floor because it becomes and emphasis for everyone else to go after them. I think in many ways he is right, especially once you get a healthy Blake back next year losing Dre's rebounding isn't going to be a huge detriment that costs us 10 wins a year its something you can mostly make up by committee.

That’s my take almost to the letter. I don’t think Dre’s presence hurts the team per se; I just think that his numbers would be filled in by the team if he weren’t on the floor, thus making him a pretty “neutral” asset, so to speak. And $20+ million is too much to pay for a neutral asset that you can’t tangibly attach wins to.

Kilo · Post #337 » by **Kilo** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:53 pm

I wouldn't go over $22M a year with Dre.

How about this possibility - He wants a No Trade Clause. Under the NBA CBA they are pretty hard to get - 8 or more yrs in the league, 5 or more with the team you are re-signing with.

DetroitSho · Post #338 » by **DetroitSho** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:31 pm

Billl wrote:Moose got paid - not max money - but he got $17 mil/yr. Dre seems to be expecting a raise from $28M and it looks like he's going to be wildly disappointed.

$17 million WAS his max

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thesack12 · Post #339 » by **thesack12** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:41 pm

Well, I suppose one positive is that it was Atlanta who allegedly declined that trade and not Detroit.

Still as each day passes, its becoming less likely we are going to see a proper rebuild take root.

zeebneeb · Post #340 » by **zeebneeb** » Thu Jan 23, 2020 11:47 pm

I would love to resign Andre at 20 per season. That's maximum, period. He has got to make a decision on if he wants to stay in Detroit, or go elsewhere. I honestly don't think he is going to get much more then that anywhere so of he meant what he said, and wants to stay in Detroit, he is going to have to accept that he is absolutely not a max player. If the team was winning 50+ Games, getting into the second round, anything that pointed to him being the catalyst to winning, no one would balk at a big deal.

As is, he is the perfect third guy on a title team.