PF targets

[zeebneeb]

Duren isn't going anywhere, as he is the best roller to the rim, perhaps in the league, the franchise player absolutely needs. Talk about destroying a locker room.

If it does happen, there will absolutely be a replacement roller, ready to go. Cade/Luka are very similar in that being, which is why the Lakers initially made that trade.

Shooting/Lob threats surround them both.

[tmorgan]

Duren isn't going anywhere, as he is the best roller to the rim, perhaps in the league, the franchise player absolutely needs. Talk about destroying a locker room.

If it does happen, there will absolutely be a replacement roller, ready to go. Cade/Luka are very similar in that being, which is why the Lakers initially made that trade.

Shooting/Lob threats surround them both.

Yeah, I do doubt Langdon trades Duren. For all his issues as a defender, we do have a very nice complement to him in Stewart, a guy we can bring in when defense is really needed.

Duren was third in the NBA in dunks last year (behind Giannis and Gobert) with 219, and a good number of those were lob finishes. He and Cade have strong chemistry on those. Further, he was 2nd in the NBA in FG% (behind Jarrett Allen) and stayed completely in his lane, almost exclusively working the paint and finishing strong. You can think of that limitation as a weakness, but it’s important to remember the main reason for Drummond failing to meet expectations — he did not stay in his lane well, trying stupid crap that didn’t work, and he often did not finish strong, boosting his own offensive rebounding but reducing his actual effectiveness. Not surprisingly, Drummond’s career high in dunks was in his second season, back before his head got too big, and it was still 36 fewer than Duren had this year despite playing about 20% more total minutes.

Duren is an effective if limited weapon on offense. I bet we keep trying to get his defense up to par for at least next year. I have doubts it’ll happen, but it could.

[Crymson]

Never said anything about keeping all our free agents and Portis. Yes, I want Beasley and Shroder back, but it all depends on the "and more" pieces involved in the multi team deal.

Fair enough. I asked so because I've seen a lot of speculation about mashing ten guys into the rotation, and I think it's an impractical notion.

Poor defense or not, Duren is a clear upgrade over Richards --- even if you don't think he is a win-now guy. Richards is 6 years older and was a disappointment for the Suns. He was in Coach Buds dog house. Ishbia also seems clueless, so he may still be in new-owner mode and ready to make a deal for the sake of making a deal.

Coach Bud was, by all accounts, a compete disaster, so I'm not sure if Richards having been doghoused by him is necessarily an operative factor. I can't speak to how good or bad Richards was, but he's a traditional center making $5 million against the cap.

Upgrade does not inherently mean substantive upgrade. Duren currently falls well short of being a winning starter for a postseason team, and his potential route there is steep and unlikely. The Suns strike me as unlikely to allocate their scant resources toward acquiring a project traditional big with a dubious future when their priority is very much to win right now. If they want a winning player in the now -- which they do -- then they can find better options.

[Canadafan]

I think it's clear that if the Pistons are interested in the likes of Turner, it would be as a replacement for Duren. Given Duren's very dubious defensive future, I'd be surprised if they aren't exploring some options.

It's interesting how much Duren's massively inflated value amongst fans mirrors that of Drummond back in the day -- it's like non-Pistons fans see a young, highly athletic, physically imposing big who dunks a lot and puts up gaudy raw stats and assume that he's a good player.

I gotta admit I never cared for Drummond. I find watching Duren to be a much greater experience overall lol. Especially at the free throw line.
He's still just turned 21. Him and Cade have crazy chemistry. And we have Stew there as well.

[LaSheed]

Don't get me wrong Duren at the right number is all good by me. Until I see him put the ball on the floor then I want to jump into oncoming traffic. Literally everytime he dribbles down the court its a turnover. STOP IT

[bstein14]

If its true that we have interest in a big who can spread the floor, that is a very interesting development for the Duren situation. Are we viewing him more as a longterm backup? Are we skeptical about paying to keep him long term? It does seem like non shooting bigs that aren't true difference makers on defense don't end up being paid a lot and they are starting to disappear in the league. Teams want guys who can spread the floor. A Cade + shooting big pick-and-roll against a team like the Knicks would be deadly because KAT's inability to defend you can really go after him in a series like the Pacers did with Haliburton and Turner.

In the playoffs Cade ran 15 pick and rolls per game and that's way more than anyone else in the league these playoffs. It became predictable and its easier to stop when you have a big who can't shoot or space the floor and then another guy like Ausar also out there.

[Crymson]

This is the point of the Duren conversation at which I should ask anyone to point out to me a traditional big who's bad on defense but maintains a significant rotation role for a winning team, let alone one who gets paid any significant amount of NBA money, let alone one who gets paid big money.

I might as well spoil that by noting that no such player exists, and that every single non-rookie-contract traditional big under contract for next season at more than $6 million is a plus defender.

The logical next question would be to ask why that is; the answer to that question is that traditional centers are inherently undesirable in today's league because they offer so little on offense, that they therefore absolutely must provide at least solid value on defense, and that, as a result, genuinely nobody wants a traditional big who's a minus defender.

I probably don't need to point out that Duren, after three seasons, is still an unambiguously bad defender who has remarkably poor defensive acumen and is all but unswitchable; that it would take an unprecedented leap for him to overcome the former; and that the latter is now more than a season old and very well may be here to stay.

Notwithstanding his fit with Cade on offense, he still -- like any traditional big -- offers a limited amount there, and he's very much in the red on defense and likely to stay there.

I agree that he's likely to be on the roster next season if no good opportunity to replace him at an affordable cost presents itself and that the FO will, in that event, simply hope against hope that his defense improves and revisit the situation at the deadline.

[Crymson]

I gotta admit I never cared for Drummond. I find watching Duren to be a much greater experience overall lol. Especially at the free throw line.
He's still just turned 21. Him and Cade have crazy chemistry. And we have Stew there as well.

I found Duren to be very much the same sort of eyesore last season and through the first 25 or so games of this season, when he could not have cared less about playing defense and was therefore a truly horrific defender rather than merely the very poor one he is when he's playing at full effort.

Pre-injury Reggie and Drummond had strong chemistry too. Drummond was, thanks to his chronically bad mentality, just very rarely a good player. He'd occasionally play the right way for a short stretch and be a genuinely good player, but that never lasted more than a couple of months and never happened twice in a single season. The rest of the time, he was a mental midget who put up gaudy raw stats but did not by any means play in a winning manner. There were still legions of Pistons fans -- no offense meant to anyone who fell into this category -- who defended him based on those raw stats until the day he was traded.

Well, Duren put up 14 and 12 in 2023-2024 and was still one of the worst starting centers in the league because his defense was so dreadful. And I think it's worth keeping in mind that he absolutely has an off switch, which is a concern, and that he's actually tried for maybe 50 games over the last two seasons.

[tmorgan]

It’s weird to think of a guy already getting too big at age 21, but Duren’s starting to look more like a powerlifter than a basketball player. I hope someone points that out to him. Being so strong that no one can move you is not helpful if everyone just goes around you.

[Crymson]

It’s weird to think of a guy already getting too big at age 21, but Duren’s starting to look more like a powerlifter than a basketball player. I hope someone points that out to him. Being so strong that no one can move you is not helpful if everyone just goes around you.

So far as I can tell, his lateral mobility was reduced by his year-two ankle injuries. He's been unswitchable since last season.

Biomechanically speaking, it's highly unlikely that added mass is a factor. Even if he'd added, say, 15 pounds of muscle in the 2023 offseason, it would have been nowhere near enough (at only 6% of his body weight) to have that degree of impact upon his lateral mobility.

[tmorgan]

It’s weird to think of a guy already getting too big at age 21, but Duren’s starting to look more like a powerlifter than a basketball player. I hope someone points that out to him. Being so strong that no one can move you is not helpful if everyone just goes around you.

So far as I can tell, his lateral mobility was reduced by his year-two ankle injuries. He's been unswitchable since last season.

Biomechanically speaking, it's highly unlikely that added mass is a factor. Even if he'd added, say, 15 pounds of muscle in the 2023 offseason, it would have been nowhere near enough (at only 6% of his body weight) to have that degree of impact upon his lateral mobility.

Well, the hope is that some of it is mental, and the further he gets from his ankle problems, the better he’ll be. Again, it’s probably wishcasting, but one can hope.

Being huge doesn’t make it any easier on your ankles, either. Still think he should train differently.

[Crymson]

Well, the hope is that some of it is mental, and the further he gets from his ankle problems, the better he’ll be. Again, it’s probably wishcasting, but one can hope.

Being huge doesn’t make it any easier on your ankles, either. Still think he should train differently.

He was passable on switches as a rookie, so I think it unlikely that it's mental. I hope you're right about recovery, but as of the postseason, he was about a year and half past his last significant ankle injury. If he hasn't recovered in that span, it's unlikely to ever happen.

He missed only two games due to ankle injury this season, and that was early in the season.

[Mr Peanut]

Read on Twitter

Not the sexiest signing but Jake LaRavia would be a good pickup as our backup PF. Can defend and shoot the three ball.

[catari11]

Read on Twitter

Not the sexiest signing but Jake LaRavia would be a good pickup as our backup PF. Can defend and shoot the three ball.

What's with the obsession with undersized PF? Pistons are too small as it is. Pistons should only consider PF who can complement Duren and Stew.

[Canadafan]

https://www.freep.com/picture-gallery/sports/nba/pistons/2025/06/03/pistons-trade-rumors-2025/83391320007/

[theBigLip]

https://www.freep.com/picture-gallery/sports/nba/pistons/2025/06/03/pistons-trade-rumors-2025/83391320007/

Good post. It will be interesting to see what N’Orleans does.

[Canadafan]

I gotta admit I never cared for Drummond. I find watching Duren to be a much greater experience overall lol. Especially at the free throw line.
He's still just turned 21. Him and Cade have crazy chemistry. And we have Stew there as well.

I found Duren to be very much the same sort of eyesore last season and through the first 25 or so games of this season, when he could not have cared less about playing defense and was therefore a truly horrific defender rather than merely the very poor one he is when he's playing at full effort.

Pre-injury Reggie and Drummond had strong chemistry too. Drummond was, thanks to his chronically bad mentality, just very rarely a good player. He'd occasionally play the right way for a short stretch and be a genuinely good player, but that never lasted more than a couple of months and never happened twice in a single season. The rest of the time, he was a mental midget who put up gaudy raw stats but did not by any means play in a winning manner. There were still legions of Pistons fans -- no offense meant to anyone who fell into this category -- who defended him based on those raw stats until the day he was traded.

Well, Duren put up 14 and 12 in 2023-2024 and was still one of the worst starting centers in the league because his defense was so dreadful. And I think it's worth keeping in mind that he absolutely has an off switch, which is a concern, and that he's actually tried for maybe 50 games over the last two seasons.

What i like/have hopes for is that he's incredibly young still. He can shoot free throws very well which makes me hopeful he can be a good pick and pop guy as well. His rebounding is crucial for us. And if we can somehow get his defense up to par then I'm happy. A lot of ifs I know!

[Crymson]

What i like/have hopes for is that he's incredibly young still. He can shoot free throws very well which makes me hopeful he can be a good pick and pop guy as well. His rebounding is crucial for us. And if we can somehow get his defense up to par then I'm happy. A lot of ifs I know!

The idea that free throw shooting inherently serves as an indicator of potential shooting is based on a misunderstanding. It's a decent but certainly flawed (see Killian for an example) indicator for shooters. Maybe there are instances of NBA traditional bigs with zero history as in-game shooters becoming reliable contributors from the perimeter, but I cannot think of any.

I think it's also worth noting that he came in at well under 70% from the line this season.

As for his age, NBA experience is at least as prevalent as that in terms of judging his NBA development. He's played three full seasons.

[the_l_train]

Read on Twitter

Not the sexiest signing but Jake LaRavia would be a good pickup as our backup PF. Can defend and shoot the three ball.

Good young replacement for Fontecchio. Probably more of a 3 but can play some 4 like SImone did. If he is relatively cheap, do it.

[Crymson]

As I see it, there's the same issue: if Beasley and Schroder are back, he's positioned to play no minutes in the normal course of things.