I have zero confidence in van gundy turning this situation around

[coordinator0]

Not recalling many posters opposed to spending the cap on Dre or RJ... It was mostly we need to get this done. Now all of the hate for these turrible deals. Uh huh.

Doesn't mean we were right to want that.

[Pharaoh]

Lets revisit the topic of confidence in svg.

Topic has never gone away - it's in every thread

We are still paying j smith when his original contract would have been off the books.

The only deal reported at the time was Landry & Thompson from Sacramento - which would have been epically stupid for us to take!

Stretching Smith showed SVG not only had the ear of Gores but the balls to do what needed to be done!

Allowed moose to walk away for nothing. We never got the chance to see Monroe and dre play together because svg stubbornly refused to play them at the same time.

Part of the Monroe issue falls on Joe Dumars though - revolving door of coaches and no success makes players wanna leave!

Dre & Monroe DID play together - it didn't work because of poor spacing and Greg's inability to develop a mid range J

Maxed dre even though his only elite skill was rebounding. Dre imo is a liability defensively and free throw shooting.

Just about every team in the league would have maxed Dre at that point! Dude has also been a All Star and made All NBA 3rd team!

Anointed Reggie as our pgof.

Again, at the time the only issue was the dollar figure - not the player!

This was proven the next year when he was getting national publicity as a All Star snub!

Maxed out our team salary with no real proven star.

It is what it is - opetating over the cap doesn't impact us as much as some people would have you believe.

Free agents don't come to Detroit so those whining about not having significant cap room need to specify they want it in order to take on bad deals and picks from team's that wanna clear space.

And finally possibly letting kcp walk.

Hasn't happened yet!

You're playing Captain Hindsight with everything but KCP here to push your agenda



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[SamFlow]

I guess I'll expand a bit, why would you possibly have zero confidence in him turning this around?

SVG has won every trade he's made here. His free agent signing this summer have been two of our very best players this year. The roster is young with no horrible contracts, yes including Reggie and Drummond.
I think Reggie is still hurt, so trading him now while his value is low doesn't make a ton of sense. Even so, I have no doubt he could be moved at the deadline if we wanted to.
And Drummond, even with his flaws, would have interest from almost every team in the league. There's not a single contract we couldn't move.

Of course he knows what wrong, we're horribly inconsistent, we don't always bring it on defense, and we still need more shooters.

His drafting has not been all that good.

I'll give him this year and then I may be over him. I'd trade RJ without a doubt. I'd keep Dre.

[ImHeisenberg]

People can talk about how he's won trades, which I agree with. But, his FA signings have overall been abysmal, with Galloway being the most recent atrocity to our cap. His drafting has been poor as well, if early returns are any indication on Johnson and Ellenson.

And the fact that our apex of SVG era is a 44 win first round sweep, the other two seasons were lottery seasons, just like every year leading up to it.

He's flipped the roster, but he has not improved the team. Just the perception of it.

[sfballa13]

People can talk about how he's won trades, which I agree with. But, his FA signings have overall been abysmal, with Galloway being the most recent atrocity to our cap. His drafting has been poor as well, if early returns are any indication on Johnson and Ellenson.

And the fact that our apex of SVG era is a 44 win first round sweep, the other two seasons were lottery seasons, just like every year leading up to it.

He's flipped the roster, but he has not improved the team. Just the perception of it.

Joe Dumars 1/10

SVG 3/10

SVG
- just as bad coaching as the wheel of fortune coaching game Dumars was playing
- marginal roster improvement at best (tobias and mook being the pinnacle of his moves)
- horrendous drafting (Dumbbass actually did a decent job here esp in later rounds)
- ZERO locker room culture improvement
- Terrible free agency signings (not as much money wasted as Dumars but still terrible)

Same result as Dumars = a team that is not fun to watch, not good enough to make noise in the playoffs, and not bad enough to garner a top 5 pick or to make noise in the playoffs

2008-2017 have been some dark years for this franchise, and if Gores sells the team which is inevitably coming with the **** show he is watching, it's about to get A LOT worse when you consider Boston, Philly, Nets all have young rosters with room to improve and we are crapped...er capped out for the next 2-3 years

FIRE SVG

[The Penguin]

I think Horford was the key move (or non move).

He would have unlocked a high - low post game with Dre, provided sorely needed leadership in the locker room, would have given us a "5 out" lineup option and we had ties to him through Tellem and his ties to the area. We had a one time window with this core before Dre and KCP got expensive.

Simply put, we struck out. Leuer is a fine player, but he doesn't bring anything near what Horford would have. Stan knew there was the one time window to spend the cap and spent on Leuer/Boban. Dre got paid and became the unquestioned main guy on the roster, a role he is not ready/equipped to handle. Your "best" highest paid player has to lead by example if he's not going to be a vocal leader. Horford is the type of guy who would have been able to take Dre under his wing and smooth some of the relationship with Stan.

When Stan took over he tried to fill the locker room with character guys like Butler and Joel Anthony. The talent level has grown to the point we don't have room on the roster for those types of leaders. Dre-Reggie-Mook are supposed to be the leaders, they are too busy fighting with each other. Some of that is on them but some of that is on Stan for ending up with the wrong guys to rely on.

[Joe Berry]

I think Horford was the key move (or non move).

He would have unlocked a high - low post game with Dre, provided sorely needed leadership in the locker room, would have given us a "5 out" lineup option and we had ties to him through Tellem and his ties to the area. We had a one time window with this core before Dre and KCP got expensive.

Simply put, we struck out. Leuer is a fine player, but he doesn't bring anything near what Horford would have. Stan knew there was the one time window to spend the cap and spent on Leuer/Boban. Dre got paid and became the unquestioned main guy on the roster, a role he is not ready/equipped to handle. Your "best" highest paid player has to lead by example if he's not going to be a vocal leader. Horford is the type of guy who would have been able to take Dre under his wing and smooth some of the relationship with Stan.

When Stan took over he tried to fill the locker room with character guys like Butler and Joel Anthony. The talent level has grown to the point we don't have room on the roster for those types of leaders. Dre-Reggie-Mook are supposed to be the leaders, they are too busy fighting with each other. Some of that is on them but some of that is on Stan for ending up with the wrong guys to rely on.

excellent analysis

[El Chivo]

given the fact that is Gores who wants Pistons to be decent/quite good, I don't think the way SVG has pursued that goal is the best.

you can be a perennial 45w team (and we aren't) and play a decent basketball, team defense and watchable offense.

[Pharaoh]

given the fact that is Gores who wants Pistons to be decent/quite good, I don't think the way SVG has pursued that goal is the best.

you can be a perennial 45w team (and we aren't) and play a decent basketball, team defense and watchable offense.

SVG pursued players on team friendly contracts before the cap ballooned while maintaining the flexibility to land Al Horford...

We land him and everything changes.

As we've seen time and time again the best free agents don't come here or when they do they treat it as a retirement home (Josh Smith)

We still have all those guys on team friendly deals...we just don't put a lot of our guys in a position to succeed to the fullest.

KCP from November to end of January is a completely different player to the guy who played Feb through April - why? What happened?

Tobias was in and out of the line up, so was Jon, so was Ish...

Instability in the rotation and in how we play makes a huge difference

SVG has preached continuity since he arrived - he's got what he wanted! Now it's on the coaching staff to do something with it.

The mind-numbing RJ-Dre PnR needs to go. RJ needs to put the team first. Dre needs to be the rebounding beast every night and not pout about touches.

Get those 2 to buy into a greater team concept and we're halfway to being a much better team

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[vic]

Quote from Donovan Mitchell

"“Usually when I get mad at myself, I like to counter it with a steal or a shot,” he said of the shot after the second foul, adding that he wasn’t too pleased with his defensive performance overall despite being largely responsible for holding Spurs guard Bryn Forbes to just 3-of-14 shooting. “Just gotta keep working on the defensive end.”

This is after scoring 23 in 25 minutes, with 5 assists, 3 steals completely dominating in all facets of the game effortlessly within 25 mins.

Dumars made some mistakes, but he had Pistons DNA... most of his worst mistakes came from bringing non-Pistons guys to the team to try and change with the league.

SVG doesnt seem to even have an idea of what type of culture needs to be built.

This isnt going to be as bad as Darko vs Carmelo, but its going to be something like Brandon Knight vs Kemba Walker. Kennard is good but not on Mitchells level.

[Laimbeer]

My only real beef is long term contracts to bench players - Ish, Boban, Galloway, Leuer, etc.

[Pharaoh]

My only real beef is long term contracts to bench players - Ish, Boban, Galloway, Leuer, etc.

You can argue 3 of them had to be signed when they were otherwise we lose the ability to do so (Drummond's free agency)

SVG would argue that key role players around for the long haul is part of his continuity speech

Of the 4 players you mentioned one could argue Galloway fits the mold of what we need the most...and he shouldn't have been signed at all!

We used to read: "you can't turn over half the roster every off-season and expect to win"...

No we read: "we need to turn over this roster if we expect to win".

Can't please all of the people all of the time

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[davidvolumes]

SVG doesn't inspire confidence BC he paid Dre superstar money and paid Reggie as if he were John Wall. Those moves represent the foundation pieces of the team. Both pieces are seriously flawed. Aside from that SVG rotations could be a top ten comedy show. Keep SVG the gm and scour the country for next up and coming Brad Stevens. Van Gundy is not the answer as coach.

[ImHeisenberg]

SVG doesn't inspire confidence BC he paid Dre superstar money and paid Reggie as if he were John Wall. Those moves represent the foundation pieces of the team. Both pieces are seriously flawed. Aside from that SVG rotations could be a top ten comedy show. Keep SVG the gm and scour the country for next up and coming Brad Stevens. Van Gundy is not the answer as coach.

Why keep him around? Jeff Bower put the trades together, SVG just gave them the thumbs up.

He's failed as a coach and GM (or whatever title you want to apply).

Travis Schlenk was the guy I was really hoping Gores was going to hire back when the writing was on the wall for Dumars. He just took over in Atlanta and is committing to a full rebuild, something this team is still in need of since 2008.

[bballnmike]

I guess I'll expand a bit, why would you possibly have zero confidence in him turning this around?

SVG has won every trade he's made here. His free agent signing this summer have been two of our very best players this year. The roster is young with no horrible contracts, yes including Reggie and Drummond.
I think Reggie is still hurt, so trading him now while his value is low doesn't make a ton of sense. Even so, I have no doubt he could be moved at the deadline if we wanted to.
And Drummond, even with his flaws, would have interest from almost every team in the league. There's not a single contract we couldn't move.

Of course he knows what wrong, we're horribly inconsistent, we don't always bring it on defense, and we still need more shooters.

following up on this:

- add shooters: check
- better defenders/attitude: check
- horribly inconsistent: tbd... maybe still a problem

[Pharaoh]

Anyone have more confidence in SVG yet?

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[BadMofoPimp]

I have 100% confidence in Stan Van Gundy turning this situation around

[El Chivo]

Anyone have more confidence in SVG yet?

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I'd wait january for this.

[Pharaoh]

Anyone have more confidence in SVG yet?

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I'd wait january for this.

I think there's enough evidence of certain aspects to give a opinion

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[davidvolumes]

I have been one of svg vocal critics. Congrats to him on two well coached games. Hoping this is just a beginning of great things to come. Question for all the svg groupies? What prior to these two games was so inspirational about his coaching?