Grade the Hayes pick!

[Pharaoh]

Here's hoping so many "experts" are right.

Seems like a good kid, humble but got fire in him.


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[MotownMadness]

Part 3

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[Uncle Mxy]

I'm happy with the Hayes pick. We didn't try snagging LaMelo, and he seems to have some game.

[ByeByeDre]

For the record, I voted “27 percent from three?”

He has a long leash, but Halliburton is looking a whole lot better......

[BJK1]

I liked Haliburton going into the draft and I have no doubt now that he’ll be a very good NBA player. I also believe in Killian. He clearly has a lot to figure out, and I think a reality check has set in relating to all of the “he played against grown men in Europe” talk. Those grown men in Euro Cup and Bundesliga would stand little to no chance against experienced NBA players. I think we’re seeing that the learning curve is going to be a lot steeper than expected. He needs to adjust to the speed, athleticism, and length of NBA athletes. But the kid absolutely has the physical tools to make it. The coaches and vets are going to have to work hard with him to ensure he maintains his confidence and stays aggressive, even as he’s taking his lumps out there.

[BJK1]

“Why the Pistons aren’t worried about rookie Killian Hayes”:

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2020/12/31/derrick-rose-killian-hayes-detroit-pistons-nba-rookie-season/4103157001/

[tmorgan]

I just hope Pistons management is more patient than a lot of people on this forum. This is pretty much exactly what I expected from Killian early on. The game is too fast for his head, he makes reads that don’t work at this level. We also knew his shot needed work. Defense has been mostly good, which is encouraging.

If he’s looking this overwhelmed at the end of the year, I’ll start to worry a little. For now, he’s a fine addition to the tank job.

[bstein14]

It is me or does Hayes almost feel a little bit like Bruce Brown's first few weeks in the NBA. Brown ended up starting 56 games as a rookie for us, he couldn't really shoot but played hard defensively. Both are 6'4"+ guards that lack elite speed for a PG. Hayes has the ball in his hands more, but I do get a similar feel from both of them. Brown has worked hard on improving his skillset and the success Hayes has this season, but more importantly the next few seasons is going to greatly depend on the work he is willing to put in.

At this moment, he was less NBA ready than almost anyone else in the lottery, but that doesn't mean he is a bust it just some people in the media selling us on his ability to play right away because he played "Pro" ball in Europe were wrong. He is a big project just like Sekou was last year.

[DBC10]

I liked Haliburton going into the draft and I have no doubt now that he’ll be a very good NBA player. I also believe in Killian. He clearly has a lot to figure out, and I think a reality check has set in relating to all of the “he played against grown men in Europe” talk. Those grown men in Euro Cup and Bundesliga would stand little to no chance against experienced NBA players. I think we’re seeing that the learning curve is going to be a lot steeper than expected. He needs to adjust to the speed, athleticism, and length of NBA athletes. But the kid absolutely has the physical tools to make it. The coaches and vets are going to have to work hard with him to ensure he maintains his confidence and stays aggressive, even as he’s taking his lumps out there.

The German league that he was a part of was not a competitive group of teams at all from what I heard and even then Hayes wasn't exactly lighting it up there either despite the franchise giving him keys to do whatever he wanted since they want to be the next team to bring up Luka level type stars

That was the biggest knock to him IMO, that he wasn't exactly ready even at the German league level. Time will tell, and I definitely need to see Hayes without some of these ball-hogging vets we have on the roster like BG, Rose, and any combo of Wright/Ellington before I really criticize him

[440BB]

The rookies all need a separate set of stats for when Blake or Rose are on the floor. Hayes is quite a different and better player when Blake isn't out there with him.

[edmunder_prc]

It is me or does Hayes almost feel a little bit like Bruce Brown's first few weeks in the NBA. Brown ended up starting 56 games as a rookie for us, he couldn't really shoot but played hard defensively. Both are 6'4"+ guards that lack elite speed for a PG. Hayes has the ball in his hands more, but I do get a similar feel from both of them. Brown has worked hard on improving his skillset and the success Hayes has this season, but more importantly the next few seasons is going to greatly depend on the work he is willing to put in.

At this moment, he was less NBA ready than almost anyone else in the lottery, but that doesn't mean he is a bust it just some people in the media selling us on his ability to play right away because he played "Pro" ball in Europe were wrong. He is a big project just like Sekou was last year.

Bruce is not the same beast. He was a SG that was completely out of place as a PG, but actually did a great job playing with zero experience as a PG.

He was much better than Killian is as a defensive presence. He never looked shell shocked and wanted to go sit on the sidelines and cry. I see that sometimes in Killian, or maybe thats just what he looks like? Bruce made bone-headed plays as a PG because he had no idea what he was doing. Killian chokes and is scared out of his mind. Josh Jackson makes stupid plays because he is playing right on the edge of his abilities, is going at 100% and running down the court, plus hes not a PG. Killian is afraid to do anything with the ball, is afraid to try the lane, is afraid to shoot, etc.

I hope Killian turns it around and stops being so intimidated by everyone. It might be in his nature though. He might not have that alpha dog, I will eat your soul kind of determination.

I would rather see Killian try to do something, go all out, and fail, rather than curl up into a ball and do nothing. Then the Pistons are playing 4 on 5 for offense and that does not work, especially with Plumlee or Stewart at center. Then its 3 on 5 for offense and requires Josh Jackson or Jerami Grant to play iso-hero-ball for 20 shots a game.

[Pharaoh]

Guessing you didn't watch any of the YouTube clips on Hayes if that's how you see him.

Not every 19 year old needs to pound their chest and point to themselves after a good play.

Yeah he's struggling with a lot of things but who didn't expect that?

It is me or does Hayes almost feel a little bit like Bruce Brown's first few weeks in the NBA. Brown ended up starting 56 games as a rookie for us, he couldn't really shoot but played hard defensively. Both are 6'4"+ guards that lack elite speed for a PG. Hayes has the ball in his hands more, but I do get a similar feel from both of them. Brown has worked hard on improving his skillset and the success Hayes has this season, but more importantly the next few seasons is going to greatly depend on the work he is willing to put in.

At this moment, he was less NBA ready than almost anyone else in the lottery, but that doesn't mean he is a bust it just some people in the media selling us on his ability to play right away because he played "Pro" ball in Europe were wrong. He is a big project just like Sekou was last year.

Bruce is not the same beast. He was a SG that was completely out of place as a PG, but actually did a great job playing with zero experience as a PG.

He was much better than Killian is as a defensive presence. He never looked shell shocked and wanted to go sit on the sidelines and cry. I see that sometimes in Killian, or maybe thats just what he looks like? Bruce made bone-headed plays as a PG because he had no idea what he was doing. Killian chokes and is scared out of his mind. Josh Jackson makes stupid plays because he is playing right on the edge of his abilities, is going at 100% and running down the court, plus hes not a PG. Killian is afraid to do anything with the ball, is afraid to try the lane, is afraid to shoot, etc.

I hope Killian turns it around and stops being so intimidated by everyone. It might be in his nature though. He might not have that alpha dog, I will eat your soul kind of determination.

I would rather see Killian try to do something, go all out, and fail, rather than curl up into a ball and do nothing. Then the Pistons are playing 4 on 5 for offense and that does not work, especially with Plumlee or Stewart at center. Then its 3 on 5 for offense and requires Josh Jackson or Jerami Grant to play iso-hero-ball for 20 shots a game.

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[ByeByeDre]

The positive to drafting Hayes is that if we would have drafted Halliburton, we would have a lot less ping pong balls.

[edmunder_prc]

Guessing you didn't watch any of the YouTube clips on Hayes if that's how you see him.

Not every 19 year old needs to pound their chest and point to themselves after a good play.

Yeah he's struggling with a lot of things but who didn't expect that?

I watched all the ones available. The guy from the Ringer had a lot to say about him.

Killian is afraid to dribble the basketball inside the 3-point line. He sure as hell didnt look that intimidated in the video clips. No one needs to scream, but at the very least as a guard you have to drive and go to the basket. Either you get past your man for a shot/floater/layup/dunk or the help defender comes and hopefully you pass to him for a good shot, or someone cutting. He is afraid or unable to dribble the ball towards the hoop. He needs a time-out and some 1 on 1 training.

I was thinking about Hayes and Plumlee. Part of getting Plumlee was to help Hayes work in the pick and roll, but right now Hayes wont even drive to the hoop. If Plumlee had a competent pick and roll PG he would look even better than he does now. As is, he is a pick and roll 6'11" center without a partner. Hes not a shooter.

Hayes really shouldnt be playing. Dribbling down the court to pass the ball as soon as he crosses the half court line and then hiding in the corner is not developing him and he is too afraid to get the practice he needs against NBA competition.

Last game he couldnt dribble around Smart or the white guy backup. That wastes way too much of the shot clock with some guy who cant dribble, cant shoot, wont drive and has a bad habit turning the ball over.

I would much rather put Saben Lee out there, just to see what is there. Maybe Weaver is all time great drafter and Saben Lee is the Bey version of PG.

[edmunder_prc]

Here is the Ringer article that I looked at, probably everyone else too.

Manu or D'Angelo Russell? Right now its looks like a poor man's D'Angelo.

The problem with "potential" is that if it takes 3 years for Killian to develop, then we already lost all the advantage of drafting him. He has to play at a high level for at least 2 years of his rookie contract, otherwise the Pistons developed him for free, for the privilege of paying top dollar to D'Angelo Russell/Wiggins/Drummond.

We already developed guys who are mediocre, then gave them a max. There are many of them in the NBA and those teams arent good usually. Hornets, Timberwolves, etc. Maxing out guys who are barely anything special.

Look at the pluses below. Im not sure I've seen any of those so far. Playmaking as his best skill? You have to play, dribble, drive before that even starts.

Also very interesting: Killian came to the USA, to Detroit, to practice and prepare before the draft. The Pistons saw him play, presumably every day for a month. Did he really look this bad there too? Is it all mental?



https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

Dynamic left-handed shot maker who’s made rapid progress at age 18, though he’s raw in some technical areas.

SHADES OF: D’Angelo Russell, Manu Ginobili

PLUSES

Playmaking is his best skill. He can whip passes off the dribble with accuracy and hit cutters or rollers with precision.
Creative pick-and-roll facilitator. Despite his weak right hand, he gets where he wants and knows how to manipulate defenses to create passing angles and openings to score.

Fluid ball handler with the size to outmuscle smaller guards.

Excellent touch with his left hand finishing difficult floaters and runners, often after initiating contact.

Displays major potential as an off-the-dribble 3-point shooter with Hardenesque moves. Added a stepback and sidestep 3 to his arsenal and uses hesitations to get into pull-ups.

His catch-and-shoot shooting numbers are concerning, but he has smooth form, a soft touch inside, and a free throw percentage over 80—all of which suggest he’ll figure it out.

Tall, with a strong frame and long arms, making him a projectably versatile defender against guards and wings.
Active off-ball menace who could develop into a disruptive defensive helper.

MINUSES

Left-hand dominant: He might as well tie his right hand behind his back considering how little he uses it—there are some passes he can’t make since he relies on his left hand so much.

Limited athlete who lacks burst and bounce, which hinders his finishing ability, especially since he rarely uses his right hand.

Lacks an advanced handle. Picks up his dribble too often, which gets him into trouble. He’s shifty but doesn’t create a ton of separation and doesn’t string together advanced moves to break down defenses.

Experiences lapses on defense, missing rotations and falling out of his on-ball stance.
He needs to be more vocal as a lead guard to take better command of the team.

[ByeByeDre]

Here is the Ringer article that I looked at, probably everyone else too.

Manu or D'Angelo Russell? Right now its looks like a poor man's D'Angelo.

The problem with "potential" is that if it takes 3 years for Killian to develop, then we already lost all the advantage of drafting him. He has to play at a high level for at least 2 years of his rookie contract, otherwise the Pistons developed him for free, for the privilege of paying top dollar to D'Angelo Russell/Wiggins/Drummond.

We already developed guys who are mediocre, then gave them a max. There are many of them in the NBA and those teams arent good usually. Hornets, Timberwolves, etc. Maxing out guys who are barely anything special.

Look at the pluses below. Im not sure I've seen any of those so far. Playmaking as his best skill? You have to play, dribble, drive before that even starts.

Also very interesting: Killian came to the USA, to Detroit, to practice and prepare before the draft. The Pistons saw him play, presumably every day for a month. Did he really look this bad there too? Is it all mental?



https://nbadraft.theringer.com/

Dynamic left-handed shot maker who’s made rapid progress at age 18, though he’s raw in some technical areas.

SHADES OF: D’Angelo Russell, Manu Ginobili

PLUSES

Playmaking is his best skill. He can whip passes off the dribble with accuracy and hit cutters or rollers with precision.
Creative pick-and-roll facilitator. Despite his weak right hand, he gets where he wants and knows how to manipulate defenses to create passing angles and openings to score.

Fluid ball handler with the size to outmuscle smaller guards.

Excellent touch with his left hand finishing difficult floaters and runners, often after initiating contact.

Displays major potential as an off-the-dribble 3-point shooter with Hardenesque moves. Added a stepback and sidestep 3 to his arsenal and uses hesitations to get into pull-ups.

His catch-and-shoot shooting numbers are concerning, but he has smooth form, a soft touch inside, and a free throw percentage over 80—all of which suggest he’ll figure it out.

Tall, with a strong frame and long arms, making him a projectably versatile defender against guards and wings.
Active off-ball menace who could develop into a disruptive defensive helper.

MINUSES

Left-hand dominant: He might as well tie his right hand behind his back considering how little he uses it—there are some passes he can’t make since he relies on his left hand so much.

Limited athlete who lacks burst and bounce, which hinders his finishing ability, especially since he rarely uses his right hand.

Lacks an advanced handle. Picks up his dribble too often, which gets him into trouble. He’s shifty but doesn’t create a ton of separation and doesn’t string together advanced moves to break down defenses.

Experiences lapses on defense, missing rotations and falling out of his on-ball stance.
He needs to be more vocal as a lead guard to take better command of the team.

He must have been doing this stuff against the same chair Darko dominated back in 03

[BJK1]

Also very interesting: Killian came to the USA, to Detroit, to practice and prepare before the draft. The Pistons saw him play, presumably every day for a month. Did he really look this bad there too? Is it all mental?

Where did you get that info from? From what I’ve seen (on his Overtime series on YouTube) and read, he lived and trained in central FL for his draft prep. Are you sure you’re not thinking of LaMelo? And per the protocols put in place by the NBA, no teams were allowed to watch any player every day for a month. They were only allowed a certain amount of in person workouts and interviews.

[DetroitSho]

Also very interesting: Killian came to the USA, to Detroit, to practice and prepare before the draft. The Pistons saw him play, presumably every day for a month. Did he really look this bad there too? Is it all mental?

Where did you get that info from? From what I’ve seen (on his Overtime series on YouTube) and read, he lived and trained in central FL for his draft prep. Are you sure you’re not thinking of LaMelo? And per the protocols put in place by the NBA, no teams were allowed to watch any player every day for a month. They were only allowed a certain amount of in person workouts and interviews.

He got that info from his ass basically.

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[edmunder_prc]

Also very interesting: Killian came to the USA, to Detroit, to practice and prepare before the draft. The Pistons saw him play, presumably every day for a month. Did he really look this bad there too? Is it all mental?

Where did you get that info from? From what I’ve seen (on his Overtime series on YouTube) and read, he lived and trained in central FL for his draft prep. Are you sure you’re not thinking of LaMelo? And per the protocols put in place by the NBA, no teams were allowed to watch any player every day for a month. They were only allowed a certain amount of in person workouts and interviews.

He got that info from his ass basically.

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Thanks for the hot take idiot! See how easy that is. This is the article I was thinking about. Its even the Pistons website, do you read any Pistons news? I also saw some tweets that Detroit was getting extra information through this. Maybe Rod Beard, but I dont want to scroll down to the summer.

https://www.nba.com/pistons/features/killian-hayes-kind-knew-it-was-detroit-pistons-land-french-teen-first-round

Hayes trained last summer with ex-Pistons guard Will Bynum and picked his brain about what to expect from the city and the franchise.

“He came down to Orlando like a month ago and we talked a lot about Detroit,” Hayes said. “He said it’s a hard-working city, so if I get drafted there just make sure I give my all every game.”

[DetroitSho]

Where did you get that info from? From what I’ve seen (on his Overtime series on YouTube) and read, he lived and trained in central FL for his draft prep. Are you sure you’re not thinking of LaMelo? And per the protocols put in place by the NBA, no teams were allowed to watch any player every day for a month. They were only allowed a certain amount of in person workouts and interviews.

He got that info from his ass basically.

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Thanks for the hot take idiot! See how easy that is. This is the article I was thinking about. Its even the Pistons website, do you read any Pistons news? I also saw some tweets that Detroit was getting extra information through this. Maybe Rod Beard, but I dont want to scroll down to the summer.

https://www.nba.com/pistons/features/killian-hayes-kind-knew-it-was-detroit-pistons-land-french-teen-first-round

Hayes trained last summer with ex-Pistons guard Will Bynum and picked his brain about what to expect from the city and the franchise.

“He came down to Orlando like a month ago and we talked a lot about Detroit,” Hayes said. “He said it’s a hard-working city, so if I get drafted there just make sure I give my all every game.”

You got an article that didn't say he trained in Detroit under the Pistons' eye as your source that he trained in Detroit under the Pistons' eye, and I'M the idiot. Cool story. You may want to watch the name-calling and misinformation.

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