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Kalamazoo317 wrote:

theBigLip wrote:

Kalamazoo317 wrote:
The rebuild is on year 4, not 2, though ....

But how many of our young core has been here 4 years?

Is that the standard other teams have used while rebuilding? How many teams are bottom of the barrel for 4 years straight?

Most teams don’t rebuild. They do a half ass job and don’t quite tank and don’t go for it. Half the teams in the league are stuck in the middle. Would you rather be Chicago, Toronto, etc? I wouldn’t. They suck and don’t realize it yet.

theBigLip wrote:

Kalamazoo317 wrote:

theBigLip wrote:
But how many of our young core has been here 4 years?

Is that the standard other teams have used while rebuilding? How many teams are bottom of the barrel for 4 years straight?

Most teams don’t rebuild. They do a half ass job and don’t quite tank and don’t go for it. Half the teams in the league are stuck in the middle. Would you rather be Chicago, Toronto, etc? I wouldn’t. They suck and don’t realize it yet.

Even teams that do bottom out are rarely still the worst team in the league 4 years later. They might be bottom for a year or two but then they add FAs, their draft picks get better, they start to trend upward. We're a bit behind on the trending upward part. Paying money and trading assets for guys like Bagley, Wiseman, asset to trade away Plumlee, etc... Weaver has been a very mixed bag and its looking like Ausar is our most likely guy to be a cornerstone type piece and he's brand new.

theBigLip wrote:

Kalamazoo317 wrote:

theBigLip wrote:
But how many of our young core has been here 4 years?

Is that the standard other teams have used while rebuilding? How many teams are bottom of the barrel for 4 years straight?

Most teams don’t rebuild. They do a half ass job and don’t quite tank and don’t go for it. Half the teams in the league are stuck in the middle. Would you rather be Chicago, Toronto, etc? I wouldn’t. They suck and don’t realize it yet.

I'd absolutely rather be Toronto, yeah. Barnes is outplaying Cade and they still have two big pieces they *could* trade if they decided to. They're mismanaging their assets currently, IMO, but probably have more assets than we do all the same.

That said, I don't want to be the Raptors, cuz I'm a Pistons fan and Cade is my guy and thus I'm contractually obligated to believe he'll be better than Barnes in the longrun.

Kalamazoo317 wrote:

theBigLip wrote:

Kalamazoo317 wrote:
Is that the standard other teams have used while rebuilding? How many teams are bottom of the barrel for 4 years straight?

Most teams don’t rebuild. They do a half ass job and don’t quite tank and don’t go for it. Half the teams in the league are stuck in the middle. Would you rather be Chicago, Toronto, etc? I wouldn’t. They suck and don’t realize it yet.

I'd absolutely rather be Toronto, yeah. Barnes is outplaying Cade and they still have two big pieces they *could* trade if they decided to. They're mismanaging their assets currently, IMO, but probably have more assets than we do all the same.

That said, I don't want to be the Raptors, cuz I'm a Pistons fan and Cade is my guy and thus I'm contractually obligated to believe he'll be better than Barnes in the longrun.

Agree that Toronto is in a better position if they get good assets out of Siakam and OG to build around Scottie. If they let them walk in FA for nothing this summer we're in a better spot than they are for sure.

bstein14 wrote:

Kalamazoo317 wrote:

theBigLip wrote:
Most teams don’t rebuild. They do a half ass job and don’t quite tank and don’t go for it. Half the teams in the league are stuck in the middle. Would you rather be Chicago, Toronto, etc? I wouldn’t. They suck and don’t realize it yet.

I'd absolutely rather be Toronto, yeah. Barnes is outplaying Cade and they still have two big pieces they *could* trade if they decided to. They're mismanaging their assets currently, IMO, but probably have more assets than we do all the same.

That said, I don't want to be the Raptors, cuz I'm a Pistons fan and Cade is my guy and thus I'm contractually obligated to believe he'll be better than Barnes in the longrun.

Agree that Toronto is in a better position if they get good assets out of Siakam and OG to build around Scottie. If they let them walk in FA for nothing this summer we're in a better spot than they are for sure.

Toronto is in a tough position because if they resign Siakam & OG to crazy contracts, it’s almost as bad as letting them walk for nothing because they’ll be capped out with a team that’s not a contender.

Who’s the best shooter with upside in the upcoming draft?

Is it Ja'Kobe Walter?

I know that everyone is fixated on getting a PF but with Cades size, he can be slotted to guard SFs.

I just want the best shooter among the top prospects. I’m tired of hoping high ceiling players develop a shot during their rookie contract.

We can’t get one way players. We need players who can shoot *and* play defense

It's going to change a lot between now and the draft, but a few guys seem interesting:
Ja'Kobe Walter
Matas Buzelis
Zaccharie Risacher

Even if we draft at #5 we should be able to get one of these guys.

I think there's a reasonable chance that if Troy is still around this off-season, but on the hot seat, that he doesn't intend on keeping whoever we draft and they are moved for a win-now guy.

I don't really trust people that say things like certain drafts are bad before the players even step into the league. Sure, there might not be a Lebron or Victor but there could be really good players, all-stars even, in perceived "bad drafts". Too bad I don't trust Troy to find those all-stars..

Troy Weaver took over June 2020. Here's our 2020-2021 roster:

No. Player Pos Ht Wt Birth Date Exp College
41 Saddiq Bey SF 6-7 215 April 9, 1999 us R Villanova
25 Tyler Cook SF 6-8 255 September 23, 1997 us 1 Iowa
6 Hamidou Diallo SF 6-5 202 July 31, 1998 us 2 Kentucky
45 Sekou Doumbouya PF 6-8 230 December 23, 2000 gn 1
8 Wayne Ellington SG 6-4 207 November 29, 1987 us 11 UNC
9 Jerami Grant SF 6-7 210 March 12, 1994 us 6 Syracuse
23 Blake Griffin PF 6-9 250 March 16, 1989 us 10 Oklahoma
7 Killian Hayes PG 6-5 195 July 27, 2001 us R
5 Frank Jackson PG 6-3 205 May 4, 1998 us 2 Duke
20 Josh Jackson SG 6-8 207 February 10, 1997 us 3 Kansas
18 Cory Joseph PG 6-2 200 August 20, 1991 ca 9 Texas
38 Saben Lee PG 6-2 183 June 23, 1999 us R Vanderbilt
17 Rodney McGruder SG 6-4 205 July 29, 1991 us 4 Kansas State
19 Svi Mykhailiuk SF 6-7 205 June 10, 1997 ua 2 Kansas
13 Jahlil Okafor C 6-10 270 December 15, 1995 us 5 Duke
24 Mason Plumlee C 6-11 254 March 5, 1990 us 7 Duke
25 Derrick Rose PG 6-3 200 October 4, 1988 us 11 Memphis
91 Deividas Sirvydis SG 6-8 190 June 10, 2000 lt R
0 Dennis Smith Jr. PG 6-2 205 November 25, 1997 us 3 NC State
28 Isaiah Stewart C 6-8 250 May 22, 2001 us R Washington
55 Delon Wright PG 6-5 185 April 26, 1992 us 5 Utah

Moses ShamMoses wrote:I don't really trust people that say things like certain drafts are bad before the players even step into the league. Sure, there might not be a Lebron or Victor but there could be really good players, all-stars even, in perceived "bad drafts". Too bad I don't trust Troy to find those all-stars..

I generally agree but it's been known for a few years that this was going to be a weak draft whereas it was also known for a few years that the previous 3 drafts were going to be strong.

Of course that can change as development with teens is quite fluid but in the very early going, this draft seems to be living up to the lack of hype. Just an absolute misery for Pistons fans all around. At least last year we had the excuse of Cade being injured and the hope of "Lets evaluate with a healthy Cade next year" and we also had a whole bunch of interesting prospects to follow at the top of the 2023 draft. Now? It's tumbleweeds.

ahike12 wrote:Troy Weaver took over June 2020. Here's our 2020-2021 roster:

No. Player Pos Ht Wt Birth Date Exp College
41 Saddiq Bey SF 6-7 215 April 9, 1999 us R Villanova
25 Tyler Cook SF 6-8 255 September 23, 1997 us 1 Iowa
6 Hamidou Diallo SF 6-5 202 July 31, 1998 us 2 Kentucky
45 Sekou Doumbouya PF 6-8 230 December 23, 2000 gn 1
8 Wayne Ellington SG 6-4 207 November 29, 1987 us 11 UNC
9 Jerami Grant SF 6-7 210 March 12, 1994 us 6 Syracuse
23 Blake Griffin PF 6-9 250 March 16, 1989 us 10 Oklahoma
7 Killian Hayes PG 6-5 195 July 27, 2001 us R
5 Frank Jackson PG 6-3 205 May 4, 1998 us 2 Duke
20 Josh Jackson SG 6-8 207 February 10, 1997 us 3 Kansas
18 Cory Joseph PG 6-2 200 August 20, 1991 ca 9 Texas
38 Saben Lee PG 6-2 183 June 23, 1999 us R Vanderbilt
17 Rodney McGruder SG 6-4 205 July 29, 1991 us 4 Kansas State
19 Svi Mykhailiuk SF 6-7 205 June 10, 1997 ua 2 Kansas
13 Jahlil Okafor C 6-10 270 December 15, 1995 us 5 Duke
24 Mason Plumlee C 6-11 254 March 5, 1990 us 7 Duke
25 Derrick Rose PG 6-3 200 October 4, 1988 us 11 Memphis
91 Deividas Sirvydis SG 6-8 190 June 10, 2000 lt R
0 Dennis Smith Jr. PG 6-2 205 November 25, 1997 us 3 NC State
28 Isaiah Stewart C 6-8 250 May 22, 2001 us R Washington
55 Delon Wright PG 6-5 185 April 26, 1992 us 5 Utah

We might suck right now, but I’d still prefer our current roster to that one.

Moses ShamMoses wrote:I don't really trust people that say things like certain drafts are bad before the players even step into the league. Sure, there might not be a Lebron or Victor but there could be really good players, all-stars even, in perceived "bad drafts". Too bad I don't trust Troy to find those all-stars..

There are enough scouts and GMs looking at these players, and it’s legit if they think the draft is strong or not. That being said, I agree with you that there are always good players in every draft.

As for Weaver, with the exception of Hayes, I think he’s done a pretty good job drafting. Cade was a consensus pick as was Ivey from our draft spot, but Duren, Thompson, and Sassar were all great picks. I’m pretty sure we’ll get another good player in this draft.

I just cannot get interested in the 2024 draft. We've been looking forward to these picks becoming something and it hasn't happened. Honestly DGAF who our savior will be next draft.

Laimbeer wrote:I just cannot get interested in the 2024 draft. We've been looking forward to these picks becoming something and it hasn't happened. Honestly DGAF who our savior will be next draft.

It might be a guy name Sarr...

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Laimbeer wrote:I just cannot get interested in the 2024 draft. We've been looking forward to these picks becoming something and it hasn't happened. Honestly DGAF who our savior will be next draft.

Yeah, its sad. I feel the same way, despite the fact that it actually looks like we made a good pick this year.

theBigLip wrote:

ahike12 wrote:Troy Weaver took over June 2020. Here's our 2020-2021 roster:

No. Player Pos Ht Wt Birth Date Exp College
41 Saddiq Bey SF 6-7 215 April 9, 1999 us R Villanova
25 Tyler Cook SF 6-8 255 September 23, 1997 us 1 Iowa
6 Hamidou Diallo SF 6-5 202 July 31, 1998 us 2 Kentucky
45 Sekou Doumbouya PF 6-8 230 December 23, 2000 gn 1
8 Wayne Ellington SG 6-4 207 November 29, 1987 us 11 UNC
9 Jerami Grant SF 6-7 210 March 12, 1994 us 6 Syracuse
23 Blake Griffin PF 6-9 250 March 16, 1989 us 10 Oklahoma
7 Killian Hayes PG 6-5 195 July 27, 2001 us R
5 Frank Jackson PG 6-3 205 May 4, 1998 us 2 Duke
20 Josh Jackson SG 6-8 207 February 10, 1997 us 3 Kansas
18 Cory Joseph PG 6-2 200 August 20, 1991 ca 9 Texas
38 Saben Lee PG 6-2 183 June 23, 1999 us R Vanderbilt
17 Rodney McGruder SG 6-4 205 July 29, 1991 us 4 Kansas State
19 Svi Mykhailiuk SF 6-7 205 June 10, 1997 ua 2 Kansas
13 Jahlil Okafor C 6-10 270 December 15, 1995 us 5 Duke
24 Mason Plumlee C 6-11 254 March 5, 1990 us 7 Duke
25 Derrick Rose PG 6-3 200 October 4, 1988 us 11 Memphis
91 Deividas Sirvydis SG 6-8 190 June 10, 2000 lt R
0 Dennis Smith Jr. PG 6-2 205 November 25, 1997 us 3 NC State
28 Isaiah Stewart C 6-8 250 May 22, 2001 us R Washington
55 Delon Wright PG 6-5 185 April 26, 1992 us 5 Utah

We might suck right now, but I’d still prefer our current roster to that one.

I posted my post in a hurry, but that's what I was intending to get at. I'm still on the team of trusting the process and feel like we should be heading in the right direction with right moves. There are two people left from that roster... two. And it's Beef Stew and Killian Hayes. One everyone wants traded and gone, the other (at least I do) is viewed as a role big that we need to replace in the starting lineup.

Tons of turnover, some good players on the roster, but still work to do, obviously.

Anybody can turnover a roster. Anyone can tear one down. Neither of those things are rebuilding. They're just demolitions or swapping out parts. We're four years in for all our efforts we're the worst team in the league.

Kalamazoo317 wrote:Anybody can turnover a roster. Anyone can tear one down. Neither of those things are rebuilding. They're just demolitions or swapping out parts. We're four years in for all our efforts we're the worst team in the league.

We have the worst record. That doesn’t mean we have the worst roster. Definitely different things when you factor in youth and contracts.