Ivey and Duren Extensions

[Crymson]

There's no snide intent (at least not from my end). It's a basketball forum, we all have individual opinions - some end up being right and some end up being off-base. I've quoted myself from posts several months or even years prior on a few occasions where I was heavily mistaken (thinking Hayes would develop into our PGOTF, defending multiple Troy Weaver head scratching trades, believing Monty was the coach that would lead us into playoffs/eventual contention etc) and usually found it humorous more than anything. If we could all predict how everything is going to play out perfectly then sport wouldn't be worth watching.

I was more curious why you were so vocal on the topic before the season started and now had much less to say. But after seeing your response and re-reading some of the posts from a few pages back in this thread I think I have my answer.

Then you have my apologies, as I misconstrued your intent.

I love to debate, and I know I can sometimes in the course of that unintentionally come across by text as aggressive to those who don't know me well. I do my best to ameliorate that, and I do better at some times and worse at others. I mean no harm to anyone. I'm here to discuss basketball, like anyone else.

This isn't my first experience with the unfortunate phenomenon of positive developments turning sports fans into an angry mob. I've been the subject of it before, and I've seen it happen to others. It's mean-spirited, and it's something I want no part of no matter who the target is.

[Snakebites]

It's hard. I agree with everything above. I didn't specifically call out the person in question; trying to speak in general terms when mentioning opposing views.

But the other side of this comes from the magnitude of the opposing view and the certainty in which it was stated. If those persons are almost a certainty to take your post, individually quote and dissect portions of arguments and respond point by point in a tenor that speaks: "I am right and you are wrong. End of discussion." then I think there can be fallout when those assertions don't ring true.

It's breeds resentment and I think there's an implied accountability expected from other posters on the receiving end.

I think to some extent the original discourse discourages honest discussion too. I inwardly groan when deciding to make replies to certain threads. While I have opinions I'd like to share the cost of having to go through the process I described and the back and forth involved with what are essentially brick walls is just too much. I often come to the conclusion it isn't worth it and do not post. My opinion never surfaces here.

I'm not happy either on this but I do think there is a bit of a "you kind of reap what you sow" component too.

You have a right to not like how an argument is presented.

But I don’t think the attitude of “yeah this is kinda bad but also he sorta deserves it” is particularly helpful.

As a mod I didn’t see any behavior in this thread that was actionable- no warnings are being given to anyone here.

But also as a mod I felt it appropriate to weigh in on what we do and don’t want as far as the atmosphere of these forums go.

I just noticed a sense of Schadenfreude in some of these posts that I felt worth commenting on.

And I felt it was important to point out a facet that I felt you weren't factoring in enough. It's like a ref making a call on a retaliation on the court. The retaliation is bad and should be penalized. But that doesn't mean the instigator isn't culpable for some of this as well.

I draw a distinction between arguments presented in a potentially abrasive ways and direct attacks or callouts of posters.

I do not believe one justifies the other, nor do I place them on the same level at all.

So yeah, if you were looking for an explanation of why I’m not “factoring that in” I think you now have it.

[theBigLip]

Just a couple of notes.

There are not positions for all-stars anymore. They just take the top 24 players.

Duren could become eligible for the "SuperMax" that Cade got if he makes team ALL-NBA this year. All-NBA teams are now also position-less and they also require a minimum of 65 games played to qualify.



$50
$54
$58
$62
$66
5 years $290 million if he's voted as one of the top 15 players in the league

Yikes.

And a lot of posters thought $25M x 4 would be an egregious overpay.

There was one main poster driving that train who seems to have mysteriously disappeared since Duren's ascension...

[Invictus88]

You have a right to not like how an argument is presented.

But I don’t think the attitude of “yeah this is kinda bad but also he sorta deserves it” is particularly helpful.

As a mod I didn’t see any behavior in this thread that was actionable- no warnings are being given to anyone here.

But also as a mod I felt it appropriate to weigh in on what we do and don’t want as far as the atmosphere of these forums go.

I just noticed a sense of Schadenfreude in some of these posts that I felt worth commenting on.

And I felt it was important to point out a facet that I felt you weren't factoring in enough. It's like a ref making a call on a retaliation on the court. The retaliation is bad and should be penalized. But that doesn't mean the instigator isn't culpable for some of this as well.

I draw a distinction between arguments presented in a potentially abrasive ways and direct attacks or callouts of posters.

I do not believe one justifies the other, nor do I place them on the same level at all.

So yeah, if you were looking for an explanation of why I’m not “factoring that in” I think you now have it.

If you don't think one is an impetus and/or cause for the other (callouts, not attacks) then I don't know what else to say. But yeah. I guess this line of discussion kind of ends.

[LoganAndWade]

Hey raps fan here

I've been stashing Ivy in my fantasy league all season so far .. do u guys have any idea if he's finally playing tonight ?
He was in the morning shooting today it says ( Saturday )

[bstein14]

Hey raps fan here

I've been stashing Ivy in my fantasy league all season so far .. do u guys have any idea if he's finally playing tonight ?
He was in the morning shooting today it says ( Saturday )

He is listed as questionable. We probably won't know if he is playing or not until 1 hour before the game starts. That's usually how its been lately.

[zeebneeb]

Hey raps fan here

I've been stashing Ivy in my fantasy league all season so far .. do u guys have any idea if he's finally playing tonight ?
He was in the morning shooting today it says ( Saturday )

From my understanding, its doubtful he plays today, but will probably play on Monday.

[Kalamazoo317]

Fun stat about Duren from Yahoo: "here are two players in the NBA averaging 20+ points and 10+ rebounds with one steal and one block per game. One is Victor Wembanyama, the other is Duren."

[zeebneeb]

Fun stat about Duren from Yahoo: "here are two players in the NBA averaging 20+ points and 10+ rebounds with one steal and one block per game. One is Victor Wembanyama, the other is Duren."

I watched a podcast debating on who they would pick;

Duren or Mobley.

That's where we are at right now. I'm not going to debate the merits of the discussion, but the fact that its even happening, is something in and of itself.

Wild how fast this team, and its players have grown.

[Cowology]

Fun stat about Duren from Yahoo: "here are two players in the NBA averaging 20+ points and 10+ rebounds with one steal and one block per game. One is Victor Wembanyama, the other is Duren."

I watched a podcast debating on who they would pick;

Duren or Mobley.

That's where we are at right now. I'm not going to debate the merits of the discussion, but the fact that its even happening, is something in and of itself.

Wild how fast this team, and its players have grown.

2 months ago I did not think JD was a starting C. Can't defend and can't stretch the floor.

It's crazy to see him not only playing solid man D, but being a hub & communicator on that end of the floor as well. As well as he's playing offensively, this has been the teams biggest difference from last season; us/him controlling the paint.

It's highly unusual to see somebody take that kind of defensive leap. Guys get better, but virtually every good defender came into the league as a good defender. We talk about "he has the tools", but most guys don't get too far beyond that because it's frequently tied to a mentality we've been carrying since we were kids. Either you wanna get after it, or you don't.

But Duren came in at a very young age and was probably able to dominate his age group without really trying.

I dunno how much credit we give to Tobias/Hardaway/Beasley etc, but that culture shift last year was real and that Dawg mentality JB & Stew are bringing is definitely resonating with the entire team.

Offensively I'm less surprised but I still didn't like the fit. He looked like a 00's PF/C that didn't belong to this era. But his ability to pressure the rim and get to the line had made a huge impact. That game without Cade was eye opening.

But again, guys make offensive leaps. Every year a handful break through. I'm trying to think of some defensive comps. Maybe I'm just blanking, but it feels very unusual to me.

[willbcocks]

So will the pistons offer Duren a max extension? Or, if offered by another team, definitely match?

[Kalamazoo317]

So will the pistons offer Duren a max extension? Or, if offered by another team, definitely match?

There's a lot of season left. I doubt that decision has been made yet (and it shouldn't be).

[Snakebites]

So will the pistons offer Duren a max extension? Or, if offered by another team, definitely match?

We no longer can sign him to an extension (this is when you reach an agreement on a new deal before the player hits free agency- we did this with Cade).

He will hit restricted free agency- he can’t be signed by us or anyone else until the offseason.

And yeah. There’s still 62 games to be played. Lots of data still to come in.

[Kalamazoo317]

We need to see how the team responds to the "pack the paint" strategy when good defenses employ it against us.

[Mr Peanut]

Duren's value is at an all time high right now, but it remains to be seen if he can sustain it over the course of the season. And also how his play transpires to the playoffs. Obviously we hold all the cards given he's a RFA but there may be a team with cap space willing to lay down a large offer sheet in the hope that Langdon doesn't match This scenario seems to be less common these days though as teams understandably don't like their cap space to be tied up for 48 hours awaiting that decision while watching key UFAs go off the board.

I think he's almost certainly on our roster next season, it's just a matter of the $ value.

[Cowology]

Saw this elsewhere but haven't verified the info.

Jalen Duren is producing 1.45 points per possession as the screener in the pick-n-roll. Easily the most efficient in the NBA among qualifying players. Shooting 83.3% (bruh) as a roller with a 14.9% free throw frequency.

Basically, he's completely unstoppable as a roll threat!

[ComboGuardCity]

I think Duren will get close to the max from us. He’s shown enough 25% into the season. One thing to note though is teams have finally started cutting off the pick and roll and not overcommitting to Cade, essentially putting some respect on JD. This has led to a slight dip in scoring for him the last couple of weeks. I think it’ll be important to see how he adapts to this and if his game evolves.

[bstein14]

Saw this elsewhere but haven't verified the info.

Jalen Duren is producing 1.45 points per possession as the screener in the pick-n-roll. Easily the most efficient in the NBA among qualifying players. Shooting 83.3% (bruh) as a roller with a 14.9% free throw frequency.

Basically, he's completely unstoppable as a roll threat!

Defensively, he's also went from bad to good in defending pick and rolls. Last year he gave up .99 points per possession and this year he has been giving up just .77 PPP.

[Dark-Oh]

Now we have to also consider Jenkins is a FA this summer. If planning for Ausar and Holland's coming extensions means we can't keep both Ivey and Jenkins, who do you trade before the deadline? If you know you can't keep both, holding a player who will walk this summer doesn't make sense. Some sort of asset in return makes more sense than losing one empty handed.

[DetroitSho]

Now we have to also consider Jenkins is a FA this summer. If planning for Ausar and Holland's coming extensions means we can't keep both Ivey and Jenkins, who do you trade before the deadline? If you know you can't keep both, holding a player who will walk this summer doesn't make sense. Some sort of asset in return makes more sense than losing one empty handed.

Jenkins is the only one who controls his free agent destiny. But let's back up a little here, how much money do you think somebody will be paying Jenkins in 2026 where this is even close to a thing to consider?

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