Pistons related Free Agency Thread

[Crymson]

Hey, I'm all for taking center minutes away from Duren and giving them to Collins. Collins has always been a fit conundrum because he's best at center on offense but can't play center on defense. But Duren can't play center on defense either, sooooo...

[bstein14]

Hey, I'm all for taking center minutes away from Duren and giving them to Collins. Collins has always been a fit conundrum because he's best at center on offense but can't play center on defense. But Duren can't play center on defense either, sooooo...

It feels like Stewart and Collins fit incredibly well together as far as being able to cover each other weaknesses a bit.... Kind of like how everyone wanted Ikaba here to play next to Drummond for so many years because Drummond was such a flawed C.

Stewart + Collins + Duncan + LeVert + (Holland or Sasser) would be the best bench in the league.

[catari11]

what would it realistically take to pry Collins from Utah and to beat out competition from e.g. Miami?

[chrbal]

I don't think Utah is looking to give Collins away for free. A protected FRP in the least would have to go back and I think the Pistons are better off keeping their ability to offer 3-4 FRP's and swaps to get Cade his 1B.

They overestimated his value, and some others. And like Clarkson and Sexton, the possibility of a first coming back would have to include a very bad contract or them paying out a lot of second round picks.

At this point I think they’d be lucky to get a project and/or a second back (with filler contracts) for him.

Like it has already been said, they gave up almost nothing to get him

[theBigLip]

Collins is overpaid for what he is. I think everyone agrees with that. But would he be a great BACKUP PF behind Tobias? Sure.

By all accounts, the Pistons will at the very least be making the Schroder deal a sign-and-trade. In that event, a three-team deal with Sacramento and Utah would allow them to take in Collins while sending out no additional salary but that of Sasser or a signed-and-traded Waters.

That said: I know I harp on this, but the backup power forward minutes are sort of already spoken for, and Collins -- who is accustomed to playing ~30 MPG, cannot play down the lineup (not that the minutes are there either) and is not exactly known for his even temperament in the locker room -- would presumably be less than thrilled at playing 10-15 MPG in a healthy rotation.

Good point on the sign and trade. Agree that his normal minutes wouldn’t be there, but he’s not a free agent so not his call. Also, what would we do if Tobias went down?

[Piston Pete]

Sounds like the S&T with the Kings fell thru. Sounds like we’re back to getting nothing again.

[GreekAlex]

Sounds like the S&T with the Kings fell thru. Sounds like we’re back to getting nothing again.

Where are you seeing this?

I’m not terribly concerned if we receive a player but I really want that TPE for additional flexibility at the trade deadline.

[Piston Pete]

Sacto was only interested to get Kuminga….and that went nowhere fast

[Crymson]

Good point on the sign and trade. Agree that his normal minutes wouldn’t be there, but he’s not a free agent so not his call.

They'd run a high risk of creating a disgruntled player and the accompanying issues in the locker room. Collins has been known for those in the past. But if they want to take some minutes away from Duren, sign me up! He'd be a big upgrade on offense and a non-downgrade on defense.

Also, what would we do if Tobias went down?

The FO will presumably find some depth at the position prior to the season. I doubt Collins would be content to wait in the wings anyway. And Tobias is perennially healthy; he's averaged nearly 75 GP per season over his last ten seasons.

[VicVinegar]

I still find the trade exception preferable to anything we've been rumored to get for Dennis.

These are players we've been repeatedly told there's no trade market for. I'd say Collins is preferable because he, at least, is expiring.

Agreed but sadly I don't think there's any way to get a trade exception from Sacramento unless they trade Monk, which there seems to be no buyers. They don't have the cap space to trade for Schroeder otherwise, and as is they'd be using the over cap MLE to sign him.

[the_l_train]

Was hoping we would have scooped up Boucher for the minimum by now.

Seems pretty ideal for what we need…he just wants to win and understands he may not get significant minutes/money.

[Snakebites]

I still find the trade exception preferable to anything we've been rumored to get for Dennis.

These are players we've been repeatedly told there's no trade market for. I'd say Collins is preferable because he, at least, is expiring.

Agreed but sadly I don't think there's any way to get a trade exception from Sacramento unless they trade Monk, which there seems to be no buyers. They don't have the cap space to trade for Schroeder otherwise, and as is they'd be using the over cap MLE to sign him.

Yeah, good point.

If the Kings don't feel they can acquire anyone else they'll probably just sign Schroder outright.

EDIT: Wait, can't a Traded Player Exception be generated in a sign and trade deal? TPE's aren't things that can be "traded" from one team to another. You generate them when you give up salary without taking it back. This is normally the case when a player is traded into cap space, but in this case it would be traded into Sacramento's own TPE from the Huerter trade.

The alternative of course is Sacramento simply signing Schroder into their own MLE, but then they can't sign anyone else to significant salary without a different trade.

[SuperBad]

I think Washington got Cam Whitmore for two 2nds; we could’ve done that to fill Fontechio minutes

[theBigLip]

Also, what would we do if Tobias went down?

The FO will presumably find some depth at the position prior to the season. I doubt Collins would be content to wait in the wings anyway. And Tobias is perennially healthy; he's averaged nearly 75 GP per season over his last ten seasons.

I'm waiting... Backup PF, backup PG are both iffy at the moment.

[chrbal]

I think Washington got Cam Whitmore for two 2nds; we could’ve done that to fill Fontechio minutes

That’s nice, I would’ve preferred us getting Jay Huff to be honest over Cam.

Still a project and kind of a gimmick. But he’s a 7 footer with 3 range and shot blocking skills. Hes got 3 years left on his contract for less than $9 million total

[Crymson]

I'm waiting... Backup PF, backup PG are both iffy at the moment.

I think it's a sure thing that LeVert will be the bench handler. It's a role he's served in under JB before. Acquiring a decent third-string PG would be prudent.

It's only July 5th; there's a full offseason ahead of us, and pickings at PF are slim right now in any case. Maybe it'll be Lyles, or maybe he'll want to play more than 10 MPG.

[VicVinegar]

I still find the trade exception preferable to anything we've been rumored to get for Dennis.

These are players we've been repeatedly told there's no trade market for. I'd say Collins is preferable because he, at least, is expiring.

Agreed but sadly I don't think there's any way to get a trade exception from Sacramento unless they trade Monk, which there seems to be no buyers. They don't have the cap space to trade for Schroeder otherwise, and as is they'd be using the over cap MLE to sign him.

Yeah, good point.

If the Kings don't feel they can acquire anyone else they'll probably just sign Schroder outright.

EDIT: Wait, can't a Traded Player Exception be generated in a sign and trade deal? TPE's aren't things that can be "traded" from one team to another. You generate them when you give up salary without taking it back. This is normally the case when a player is traded into cap space, but in this case it would be traded into Sacramento's own TPE from the Huerter trade.

The alternative of course is Sacramento simply signing Schroder into their own MLE, but then they can't sign anyone else to significant salary without a different trade.

That's what I'm saying. The Pistons can't "give up salary without taking it back" with the Kings. Kings are already over the cap pre-Schreoder. Lavine, Sabonis, Derozan, Monk, and Murray are all already existent contracts and already account for $144M of the $154M in cap space, add in all the other small contracts they're definitely over that $154M cap. So they can't just accept Schroeder's salary in a trade. At least that's my understanding, but I might be wrong. Now if they send Monk to another team (without taking salary back), then yes, they might be able to absorb Scroeder's contract via trade, which would create a trade exception for the Pistons. But no one wants Monk.

[Snakebites]

Agreed but sadly I don't think there's any way to get a trade exception from Sacramento unless they trade Monk, which there seems to be no buyers. They don't have the cap space to trade for Schroeder otherwise, and as is they'd be using the over cap MLE to sign him.

Yeah, good point.

If the Kings don't feel they can acquire anyone else they'll probably just sign Schroder outright.

EDIT: Wait, can't a Traded Player Exception be generated in a sign and trade deal? TPE's aren't things that can be "traded" from one team to another. You generate them when you give up salary without taking it back. This is normally the case when a player is traded into cap space, but in this case it would be traded into Sacramento's own TPE from the Huerter trade.

The alternative of course is Sacramento simply signing Schroder into their own MLE, but then they can't sign anyone else to significant salary without a different trade.

That's what I'm saying. The Pistons can't "give up salary without taking it back" with the Kings. Kings are already over the cap pre-Schreoder. Lavine, Sabonis, Derozan, Monk, and Murray are all already existent contracts and already account for $144M of the $154M in cap space, add in all the other small contracts they're definitely over that $154M cap. So they can't just accept Schroeder's salary in a trade. At least that's my understanding, but I might be wrong. Now if they send Monk to another team (without taking salary back), then yes, they might be able to absorb Scroeder's contract via trade, which would create a trade exception for the Pistons. But no one wants Monk.

My understanding is that they could take salary in a sign and trade because of a previously created TPE from an earlier trade.

They’d prefer to give up Monk’s salary since they have no use for him with so many other shooting guards.

[VicVinegar]

Yeah, good point.

If the Kings don't feel they can acquire anyone else they'll probably just sign Schroder outright.

EDIT: Wait, can't a Traded Player Exception be generated in a sign and trade deal? TPE's aren't things that can be "traded" from one team to another. You generate them when you give up salary without taking it back. This is normally the case when a player is traded into cap space, but in this case it would be traded into Sacramento's own TPE from the Huerter trade.

The alternative of course is Sacramento simply signing Schroder into their own MLE, but then they can't sign anyone else to significant salary without a different trade.

That's what I'm saying. The Pistons can't "give up salary without taking it back" with the Kings. Kings are already over the cap pre-Schreoder. Lavine, Sabonis, Derozan, Monk, and Murray are all already existent contracts and already account for $144M of the $154M in cap space, add in all the other small contracts they're definitely over that $154M cap. So they can't just accept Schroeder's salary in a trade. At least that's my understanding, but I might be wrong. Now if they send Monk to another team (without taking salary back), then yes, they might be able to absorb Scroeder's contract via trade, which would create a trade exception for the Pistons. But no one wants Monk.

My understanding is that they could take salary in a sign and trade because of a previously created TPE from an earlier trade.

They’d prefer to give up Monk’s salary since they have no use for him with so many other shooting guards.

Ah, you're correct! They have a ton of trade exceptions. But yeah it doesn't make sense for them to use one when currently Schroeder fits into their MLE money. Pistons would have to make it worth their while and I guess a deal couldn't be reached.

[VicVinegar]

That's what I'm saying. The Pistons can't "give up salary without taking it back" with the Kings. Kings are already over the cap pre-Schreoder. Lavine, Sabonis, Derozan, Monk, and Murray are all already existent contracts and already account for $144M of the $154M in cap space, add in all the other small contracts they're definitely over that $154M cap. So they can't just accept Schroeder's salary in a trade. At least that's my understanding, but I might be wrong. Now if they send Monk to another team (without taking salary back), then yes, they might be able to absorb Scroeder's contract via trade, which would create a trade exception for the Pistons. But no one wants Monk.

My understanding is that they could take salary in a sign and trade because of a previously created TPE from an earlier trade.

They’d prefer to give up Monk’s salary since they have no use for him with so many other shooting guards.

Ah, you're correct! They have a ton of trade exceptions. But yeah it doesn't make sense for them to use one when currently Schroeder fits into their MLE money. Pistons would have to make it worth their while and I guess a deal couldn't be reached.

Edit: Boy it's kind of crazy Pistons haven't had a trade exception in like... ever? Really sucks it's a giant loophole that we haven't been able to take advantage of. Not only that but we've been the dumping grounds of teams to get free cap space AND trade exceptions (Joe Harris, THJ, etc.). It's kind of crazy Dallas got $16m in cap space AND a $16M trade exception just for two second round picks by dumping THJ. That's robbery.