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GreekAlex wrote:

Kalamazoo317 wrote:As long as he can thrive off-ball, Reed Sheppard works for me. Great outside shooter who can at least play competitive defense is the type of archetype to put around Cade. I'd probably be Sarr at 1 and Sheppard at 2 thus far.

Who do people see as Sheppard’s ceiling comp?

I just don’t see enough upside to warrant a top 5 pick.

Ceiling is Steph with Stockton defense.
Floor is All-star version of Peyton Pritchard.

He really is that talented. It’s tough for people to see because he’s short and white and not flashy, but I think people are really going to be shocked at how a Calipari guard who out-produced two higher rated guards performs in NBA spacing.

vic wrote:

GreekAlex wrote:

Kalamazoo317 wrote:As long as he can thrive off-ball, Reed Sheppard works for me. Great outside shooter who can at least play competitive defense is the type of archetype to put around Cade. I'd probably be Sarr at 1 and Sheppard at 2 thus far.

Who do people see as Sheppard’s ceiling comp?

I just don’t see enough upside to warrant a top 5 pick.

Ceiling is Steph with Stockton defense.
Floor is All-star version of Peyton Pritchard.

He really is that talented. It’s tough for people to see because he’s short and white and not flashy, but I think people are really going to be shocked at how a Calipari guard who out-produced two higher rated guards performs in NBA spacing.

I guess that I’ll have to watch some more tape. That’s some pretty impressive company that he’s being compared with.

I’m just not sure what an all-star version of Peyton Pritchard is being that he’s basically a 20 mpg guy. Are you suggesting that if he was able to play his career best game level of play consistently?

GreekAlex wrote:

vic wrote:

GreekAlex wrote:
Who do people see as Sheppard’s ceiling comp?

I just don’t see enough upside to warrant a top 5 pick.

Ceiling is Steph with Stockton defense.
Floor is All-star version of Peyton Pritchard.

He really is that talented. It’s tough for people to see because he’s short and white and not flashy, but I think people are really going to be shocked at how a Calipari guard who out-produced two higher rated guards performs in NBA spacing.

I guess that I’ll have to watch some more tape. That’s some pretty impressive company that he’s being compared with.

I’m just not sure what an all-star version of Peyton Pritchard is being that he’s basically a 20 mpg guy. Are you suggesting that if he was able to play his career best game level of play consistently?

Pretty much. Just take a few of Peyton Pritchard best games and make it a nightly occurrence. That’s what I think you’ll get with Reed. He has that “it” factor, the hand-eye coordination and basketball iq that makes things happen

What is the boards opinion of Donovan Clingan? With all the uncertainty this draft offers he does offer 2 things in 7'2" size and rim protection. Can't believe I'm leaning towards another Center that can't shoot. I'm so lost.

GreekAlex wrote:
Who do people see as Sheppard’s ceiling comp?

I just don’t see enough upside to warrant a top 5 pick.

These are my feelings on Reed as well, but I will admit that I am extremely prejudice against the "White American 3 point shooting college star" archetype. Historically, that is such a low ceiling player and it's always one of those in the lottery every year. What's wild is how they are always the exact same player too, same strengths (3 point shooting of course, "bball IQ", playing within their limitations.) and the same weaknesses (unathletic, disappointingly short wing span, so-so defenders etc.).

Despite all of that, my main point of contention with Reed is that he's 6'3... And I just have no interest in putting an undersized shooting guard next Cade, especially one that doesn't have any athletic gifts to make up for it. He is not Steph or Lillard, those guys are legitimate elite ball handling PGs that can create their own shots. Reed is a stubby-armed 2 guard that has question marks around his ball handling and shot creation for himself as well as others. I don't trust that he'll have success on either side of the ball against NBA level athletes, length, speed, and size. I'm not seeing it with him, but again I'm admitting my prejudice, I never see it with this archetype.

King Bugs wrote:

GreekAlex wrote:
Who do people see as Sheppard’s ceiling comp?

I just don’t see enough upside to warrant a top 5 pick.

These are my feelings on Reed as well, but I will admit that I am extremely prejudice against the "White American 3 point shooting college star" archetype. Historically, that is such a low ceiling player and it's always one of those in the lottery every year. What's wild is how they are always the exact same player too, same strengths (3 point shooting of course, "bball IQ", playing within their limitations.) and the same weaknesses (unathletic, disappointingly short wing span, so-so defenders etc.).

Despite all of that, my main point of contention with Reed is that he's 6'3... And I just have no interest in putting an undersized shooting guard next Cade, especially one that doesn't have any athletic gifts to make up for it. He is not Steph or Lillard, those guys are legitimate elite ball handling PGs that can create their own shots. Reed is a stubby-armed 2 guard that has question marks around his ball handling and shot creation for himself as well as others. I don't trust that he'll have success on either side of the ball against NBA level athletes, length, speed, and size. I'm not seeing it with him, but again I'm admitting my prejudice, I never see it with this archetype.

The main differentiators from the "archetype" would be his historical efficiency. He is a true outlier in that regard. Especially when you consider he's a freshman (albeit nearly 20yo). You just don't find freshman (or guards in general) with that kind of shot-making and selection.

The other standout is the stocks. He averaged 4.6 steals and 1.3 blocks per 100 possessions and even rebounded well for his position. I'm not sure if the elite man-to-man D will translate to larger/faster players in the NBA, but the instincts on the defensive playmaking side are real and it's something we lack. We were dead last in steals per game, which is a killer for a young team that absolutely needs to run. To me that's the most underrated flaw in the roster. All this athletic youth and no ability to create fast breaks.

He's also a Kentucky guard, and betting against those translating to the league tends to be a bad idea. Seems almost guaranteed that at least one of Reed or Dillingham will end up being one of the 2 or 3 best players from this draft.

I wouldn't hate it if we took him in that 4/5 range . His main strengths are really our main weaknesses. I do think it would require us to move on from Ivey or Sasser though. Can't have that many small guards.

Reed will certainly be a interesting one to follow. We'll see how the skillset does against the genetics in the NBA.

BDM22 wrote:

King Bugs wrote:

GreekAlex wrote:
Who do people see as Sheppard’s ceiling comp?

I just don’t see enough upside to warrant a top 5 pick.

These are my feelings on Reed as well, but I will admit that I am extremely prejudice against the "White American 3 point shooting college star" archetype. Historically, that is such a low ceiling player and it's always one of those in the lottery every year. What's wild is how they are always the exact same player too, same strengths (3 point shooting of course, "bball IQ", playing within their limitations.) and the same weaknesses (unathletic, disappointingly short wing span, so-so defenders etc.).

Despite all of that, my main point of contention with Reed is that he's 6'3... And I just have no interest in putting an undersized shooting guard next Cade, especially one that doesn't have any athletic gifts to make up for it. He is not Steph or Lillard, those guys are legitimate elite ball handling PGs that can create their own shots. Reed is a stubby-armed 2 guard that has question marks around his ball handling and shot creation for himself as well as others. I don't trust that he'll have success on either side of the ball against NBA level athletes, length, speed, and size. I'm not seeing it with him, but again I'm admitting my prejudice, I never see it with this archetype.

The main differentiators from the "archetype" would be his historical efficiency. He is a true outlier in that regard. Especially when you consider he's a freshman (albeit nearly 20yo). You just don't find freshman (or guards in general) with that kind of shot-making and selection.

The other standout is the stocks. He averaged 4.6 steals and 1.3 blocks per 100 possessions and even rebounded well for his position. I'm not sure if the elite man-to-man D will translate to larger/faster players in the NBA, but the instincts on the defensive playmaking side are real and it's something we lack. We were dead last in steals per game, which is a killer for a young team that absolutely needs to run. To me that's the most underrated flaw in the roster. All this athletic youth and no ability to create fast breaks.

He's also a Kentucky guard, and betting against those translating to the league tends to be a bad idea. Seems almost guaranteed that at least one of Reed or Dillingham will end up being one of the 2 or 3 best players from this draft.

I wouldn't hate it if we took him in that 4/5 range . His main strengths are really our main weaknesses. I do think it would require us to move on from Ivey or Sasser though. Can't have that many small guards.

It’s the steals and the rebounds that make the difference. Players prove their athleticism with athletic production, not skin color.

And it’s been insane to bet against a Calipari guard for a couple of decades now.

If we get Shepperd, bye bye Sasser!

King Bugs wrote:

GreekAlex wrote:
Who do people see as Sheppard’s ceiling comp?

I just don’t see enough upside to warrant a top 5 pick.

These are my feelings on Reed as well, but I will admit that I am extremely prejudice against the "White American 3 point shooting college star" archetype. Historically, that is such a low ceiling player and it's always one of those in the lottery every year. What's wild is how they are always the exact same player too, same strengths (3 point shooting of course, "bball IQ", playing within their limitations.) and the same weaknesses (unathletic, disappointingly short wing span, so-so defenders etc.).

Despite all of that, my main point of contention with Reed is that he's 6'3... And I just have no interest in putting an undersized shooting guard next Cade, especially one that doesn't have any athletic gifts to make up for it. He is not Steph or Lillard, those guys are legitimate elite ball handling PGs that can create their own shots. Reed is a stubby-armed 2 guard that has question marks around his ball handling and shot creation for himself as well as others. I don't trust that he'll have success on either side of the ball against NBA level athletes, length, speed, and size. I'm not seeing it with him, but again I'm admitting my prejudice, I never see it with this archetype.

TJ McConnell is 6’1
Payton Pritchard is 6’2
Reed Sheppard is 6’3

Reed is not only taller than them, he outproduces both of them, on both sides of the floor, at a younger age than both of them. No matter what he looks like, the kid is a certified baller.

John Stockton was 6’1, and leads the history of the whole NBA in steals AND assists, ahead of Jason Kidd and Chris Paul in both categories.

Reed Sheppard is in the archetype of an all time great.

He’s a 2-way game changer that can shoot and doesn’t need to dribble the air out the ball to produce winning plays.

He might be the best fit for Cade in this draft.

vic wrote:

King Bugs wrote:

GreekAlex wrote:
Who do people see as Sheppard’s ceiling comp?

I just don’t see enough upside to warrant a top 5 pick.

These are my feelings on Reed as well, but I will admit that I am extremely prejudice against the "White American 3 point shooting college star" archetype. Historically, that is such a low ceiling player and it's always one of those in the lottery every year. What's wild is how they are always the exact same player too, same strengths (3 point shooting of course, "bball IQ", playing within their limitations.) and the same weaknesses (unathletic, disappointingly short wing span, so-so defenders etc.).

Despite all of that, my main point of contention with Reed is that he's 6'3... And I just have no interest in putting an undersized shooting guard next Cade, especially one that doesn't have any athletic gifts to make up for it. He is not Steph or Lillard, those guys are legitimate elite ball handling PGs that can create their own shots. Reed is a stubby-armed 2 guard that has question marks around his ball handling and shot creation for himself as well as others. I don't trust that he'll have success on either side of the ball against NBA level athletes, length, speed, and size. I'm not seeing it with him, but again I'm admitting my prejudice, I never see it with this archetype.

TJ McConnell is 6’1
Payton Pritchard is 6’2
Reed Sheppard is 6’3

Reed is not only taller than them, he outproduces both of them, on both sides of the floor, at a younger age than both of them. No matter what he looks like, the kid is a certified baller.

John Stockton was 6’1, and leads the history of the whole NBA in steals AND assists, ahead of Jason Kidd and Chris Paul in both categories.

Reed Sheppard is in the archetype of an all time great.

He’s a 2-way game changer that can shoot and doesn’t need to dribble the air out the ball to produce winning plays.

He might be the best fit for Cade in this draft.

The game has changed immensely from the time Stockton played, things are completely different with the league more athletic and insane wingspans far more common. Sheppard can shoot, but he looks average at absolute best athletically with a wingspan that also looks average in context of his height which will most likely cause challenges for him defensively. If we were to trade Duren for a pick and select him I’d be fine with it, but if we were to be fortunate enough to get the 1st pick there’s no way I’d be happy about the pistons taking him. I think he’s going to end up a slightly better Jimmer Fredette.

Eleven of the twelve worst three point shooting teams missed the playoffs. There are two shooters at the top of the draft - Reed and Risacher. Get one of them.

vic wrote:

King Bugs wrote:

GreekAlex wrote:
Who do people see as Sheppard’s ceiling comp?

I just don’t see enough upside to warrant a top 5 pick.

These are my feelings on Reed as well, but I will admit that I am extremely prejudice against the "White American 3 point shooting college star" archetype. Historically, that is such a low ceiling player and it's always one of those in the lottery every year. What's wild is how they are always the exact same player too, same strengths (3 point shooting of course, "bball IQ", playing within their limitations.) and the same weaknesses (unathletic, disappointingly short wing span, so-so defenders etc.).

Despite all of that, my main point of contention with Reed is that he's 6'3... And I just have no interest in putting an undersized shooting guard next Cade, especially one that doesn't have any athletic gifts to make up for it. He is not Steph or Lillard, those guys are legitimate elite ball handling PGs that can create their own shots. Reed is a stubby-armed 2 guard that has question marks around his ball handling and shot creation for himself as well as others. I don't trust that he'll have success on either side of the ball against NBA level athletes, length, speed, and size. I'm not seeing it with him, but again I'm admitting my prejudice, I never see it with this archetype.

TJ McConnell is 6’1
Payton Pritchard is 6’2
Reed Sheppard is 6’3

Reed is not only taller than them, he outproduces both of them, on both sides of the floor, at a younger age than both of them. No matter what he looks like, the kid is a certified baller.

John Stockton was 6’1, and leads the history of the whole NBA in steals AND assists, ahead of Jason Kidd and Chris Paul in both categories.

Reed Sheppard is in the archetype of an all time great.

He’s a 2-way game changer that can shoot and doesn’t need to dribble the air out the ball to produce winning plays.

He might be the best fit for Cade in this draft.

I like Sheppard and certainly find him intriguing as a fit with this Cade, but I would be surprised if he is even a full 6'2 much less 6'3. He's 6'3 in the same way Cade was 6'8 in college and then shrunk a couple inches right after the draft lol.

I guess we'll see at the draft combine though. I think every player that isn't overseas has to participate as of this year.

#5 pick. Wow. They really meant it when they said they aren’t rewarding tanking anymore.

You have to get a smart analytical front office because your not getting bailed out anymore.

Bye bye Sarr, by bye Risacher.

Reed Sheppard has to be the pick now. The Pistons don’t need any more potential, they need 2-way production on the court every minute of every game.

Sheppard or Knecht, PERIOD.

Those are your shooters. It absolutely, positively, has to be a shooter.

Any Buzelis fans?

vic wrote:#5 pick. Wow. They really meant it when they said they aren’t rewarding tanking anymore.

You have to get a smart analytical front office because your not getting bailed out anymore.

Bye bye Sarr, by bye Risacher.

Reed Sheppard has to be the pick now. The Pistons don’t need any more potential, they need 2-way production on the court every minute of every game.

I don't see a way Houston and San Antonio both pass on Reed Sheppard.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2024/5/12/24151230/nba-mock-draft-2024-atlanta-hawks-wizards-rockets-after-lottery

Has us taking Zaccharie Risacher, with the 5th pick

treefi wrote:

vic wrote:#5 pick. Wow. They really meant it when they said they aren’t rewarding tanking anymore.

You have to get a smart analytical front office because your not getting bailed out anymore.

Bye bye Sarr, by bye Risacher.

Reed Sheppard has to be the pick now. The Pistons don’t need any more potential, they need 2-way production on the court every minute of every game.

I don't see a way Houston and San Antonio both pass on Reed Sheppard.

For what it’s worth there are mocks that have Shepherd going as low as 9. Every mock I’ve seen has us passing on him at 5.

There’s really very little consensus. Only sure thing is Sarr goes early. And even he has issues.

This isn’t sour grapes either. I’ve been saying this for months.

This isn’t a draft that can be predicted in the way others could be.

If we do something silly in free agency, I’m entering the fan transfer portal. Enough is enough

Snakebites wrote:

treefi wrote:

vic wrote:#5 pick. Wow. They really meant it when they said they aren’t rewarding tanking anymore.

You have to get a smart analytical front office because your not getting bailed out anymore.

Bye bye Sarr, by bye Risacher.

Reed Sheppard has to be the pick now. The Pistons don’t need any more potential, they need 2-way production on the court every minute of every game.

I don't see a way Houston and San Antonio both pass on Reed Sheppard.

For what it’s worth there are mocks that have Shepherd going as low as 9. Every mock I’ve seen has us passing on him at 5.

There’s really very little consensus. Only sure thing is Sarr goes early. And even he has issues.

This isn’t sour grapes either. I’ve been saying this for months.

This isn’t a draft that can be predicted in the way others could be.

I agree, us getting the 5th pick isnt sour grapes. I didnt want the 1st pick bc I dont think Sarr is good. At least not now. He's a stretch big that cant shoot or rebound. Sheppard or Risacher will be there so Im happy with that.