Free Agents

[mattao313]

FVV Killed it in game 1 of the playoffs today. He's going to play himself into a big contract and I've got a feeling its going to be the Pistons that give him $100+ million contract.

I think he stays in Toronto.

[jakebernat]

only way I’d back a FVV move is if we acquired him via sign-and-trade, and we also lucked into Edwards in the draft...

[Crymson]

Torrey Craig would be a pretty good signing. Plays hard and can get after it on defense with Bruce Brown. He's the kind of player that could help establish some sort of culture.

I don't know why people are so obsessed with culture. This isn't the 80s or the 90s or the early 2000s. The old hard-workin', grind-it-out, Dee-troit formula is definitely dead where success is concerned. Talent, not culture, wins games. Want to be a good team? Get those superstar scorers and put the right pieces around them.

People also forget that those championship teams had culture. Isaiah was one of the best point guards in NBA history. Dumars was an all-star. Rodman, Laimbeer, and Mahorn were good players. The Going-to-Work Pistons had no stars but a strong-across-the-board starting five. Even so, their chances at another championship died the moment the NBA nerfed defense in 2005. After that, superstar offensive talent became a mandatory commodity in winning championships.

[chrbal]

Torrey Craig would be a pretty good signing. Plays hard and can get after it on defense with Bruce Brown. He's the kind of player that could help establish some sort of culture.

On the cheap, sure. But he’s 29 or 30 and has a very limited offensive game.

[Manocad]

Talent, not culture, wins games. Want to be a good team? Get those superstar scorers and put the right pieces around them.

People also forget that those championship teams had culture. Isaiah was one of the best point guards in NBA history. Dumars was an all-star. Rodman, Laimbeer, and Mahorn were good players. The Going-to-Work Pistons had no stars but a strong-across-the-board starting five. Even so, their chances at another championship died the moment the NBA nerfed defense in 2005. After that, superstar offensive talent became a mandatory commodity in winning championships.

I don't disagree that without a superstar scorer you're not winning a championship in today's NBA. However I disagree with the idea that you get the superstars then put the pieces around them. Chasing talent then trying to figure out what works didn't work for the Pistons before. Don't like the word "culture"? How about the word "team." In this context they're pretty much interchangeable--a group of guys all buying into playing a certain way because that's what works best for that particular group of players. The best example in recent times of just grabbing superstar talent and quickly winning a championship is Lebron and Bosh going to the Heat, and not only was that adding a star and megastar to a star on an already established 47-win team, but two years to win the championship.

Yes, talent wins games. But a team/culture wins championships. And damnit, learn how to spell Isiah.

[Pharaoh]

Talent, not culture, wins games. Want to be a good team? Get those superstar scorers and put the right pieces around them.

People also forget that those championship teams had culture. Isaiah was one of the best point guards in NBA history. Dumars was an all-star. Rodman, Laimbeer, and Mahorn were good players. The Going-to-Work Pistons had no stars but a strong-across-the-board starting five. Even so, their chances at another championship died the moment the NBA nerfed defense in 2005. After that, superstar offensive talent became a mandatory commodity in winning championships.

I don't disagree that without a superstar scorer you're not winning a championship in today's NBA. However I disagree with the idea that you get the superstars then put the pieces around them. Chasing talent then trying to figure out what works didn't work for the Pistons before. Don't like the word "culture"? How about the word "team." In this context they're pretty much interchangeable--a group of guys all buying into playing a certain way because that's what works best for that particular group of players. The best example in recent times of just grabbing superstar talent and quickly winning a championship is Lebron and Bosh going to the Heat, and not only was that adding a star and megastar to a star on an already established 47-win team, but two years to win the championship.

Yes, talent wins games. But a team/culture wins championships. And damnit, learn how to spell Isiah.

Agree that finding capable pieces first is the way to go.

If we don't believe a guy can't fit on a "good" team then why have him.

Take Luke Kennard: to me he's at best a 3rd option, most likely a 4th.

How much are we going to pay him - at the beginning of a rebuild - miscast him as a #2 option, run him into the ground...

It's why I want to trade him for a top 15 pick in this Draft!

Reset that rookie contract, take a shot at a dude who likely is a 4th option on a good team anyway but at least he won't be overpaid or run into the ground or miscast

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app

[Crymson]

I don't disagree that without a superstar scorer you're not winning a championship in today's NBA. However I disagree with the idea that you get the superstars then put the pieces around them. Chasing talent then trying to figure out what works didn't work for the Pistons before. Don't like the word "culture"? How about the word "team." In this context they're pretty much interchangeable--a group of guys all buying into playing a certain way because that's what works best for that particular group of players. The best example in recent times of just grabbing superstar talent and quickly winning a championship is Lebron and Bosh going to the Heat, and not only was that adding a star and megastar to a star on an already established 47-win team, but two years to win the championship.

Yes, talent wins games. But a team/culture wins championships. And damnit, learn how to spell Isiah.

I'm referring to the notion that the Pistons can get back to success by focusing on players who exemplify the ethos of "Detroit basketball," as if winning on grit, grind, toughness, and defense is possible or was ever possible. Truth is that it was not ever possible; talent was required even back then, and that style of play is enormously less potent now than it was then. The Pistons should not be focusing on signing a particular sort of player for the sake of chasing a bygone culture, and they absolutely must be seeking a way toward that attaining that vital superstar-level talent; many of the people who point toward "culture" seem to believe that it's an end in itself, or even a route back to the successes of previous eras. It is neither. A proper team culture is certainly important, but it's nothing without the necessary personnel.

The poster to whom I responded suggested that the Pistons sign Torrey Craig, a hardworking, defense-first player, to play alongside Bruce Brown, another hardworking, defense-first player, toward the end of building "culture." This was presumably a reference to the olden times, but building a defense-first culture and populating it with defense-first players who cannot shoot well is really going to lead nowhere. One such player is more than enough at times (for all I like Brown, he's still a liability because of his offense); two is certainly more than enough. People may pine back to the days of hard-nosed, shutdown defense, but those days are definitively dead; the NBA deliberately saw to that, long ago. Watching one's team disrupt the other to the point of insanity was fun for fans of the Pistons and the Spurs, but was very boring for everyone else.

I'm aware that it's Isiah. I default to the typical spelling by accident, not because of the other guy.

[NYPiston]

Torrey Craig would be a pretty good signing. Plays hard and can get after it on defense with Bruce Brown. He's the kind of player that could help establish some sort of culture.

I don't know why people are so obsessed with culture. This isn't the 80s or the 90s or the early 2000s. The old hard-workin', grind-it-out, Dee-troit formula is definitely dead where success is concerned. Talent, not culture, wins games. Want to be a good team? Get those superstar scorers and put the right pieces around them.

People also forget that those championship teams had culture. Isaiah was one of the best point guards in NBA history. Dumars was an all-star. Rodman, Laimbeer, and Mahorn were good players. The Going-to-Work Pistons had no stars but a strong-across-the-board starting five. Even so, their chances at another championship died the moment the NBA nerfed defense in 2005. After that, superstar offensive talent became a mandatory commodity in winning championships.

Superstar talent has always been a mandatory commodity to winning championships. Do you think the 80s Lakers and Celtics, 90s Bulls won because of "culture"? They had the best players, that's why they won. The two Pistons dynasties could be examples of winning due to team play "culture" moreso than with talent but they did have a top 5 all time PG running things.

Anyway, this current Pistons team is severely culture and talent deficient so they should take whatever they can get to upgrade the roster as long as it's not a stupid big free agent signing.
Under the radar signings, smart trades, drafting and developing should be the foundation built, not big free agent signings. Detroit has never been about building with glamour free agents, likely never will be.

[Kilo]

Detroit doesn't have any capspace if the plan is to re-sign Chris Wood. Also I'd be willing to bet the plan is to keep Galloway as well.

[pistonsbball]

I don't disagree that without a superstar scorer you're not winning a championship in today's NBA. However I disagree with the idea that you get the superstars then put the pieces around them. Chasing talent then trying to figure out what works didn't work for the Pistons before. Don't like the word "culture"? How about the word "team." In this context they're pretty much interchangeable--a group of guys all buying into playing a certain way because that's what works best for that particular group of players. The best example in recent times of just grabbing superstar talent and quickly winning a championship is Lebron and Bosh going to the Heat, and not only was that adding a star and megastar to a star on an already established 47-win team, but two years to win the championship.

Yes, talent wins games. But a team/culture wins championships. And damnit, learn how to spell Isiah.

I'm referring to the notion that the Pistons can get back to success by focusing on players who exemplify the ethos of "Detroit basketball," as if winning on grit, grind, toughness, and defense is possible or was ever possible. Truth is that it was not ever possible; talent was required even back then, and that style of play is enormously less potent now than it was then. The Pistons should not be focusing on signing a particular sort of player for the sake of chasing a bygone culture, and they absolutely must be seeking a way toward that attaining that vital superstar-level talent; many of the people who point toward "culture" seem to believe that it's an end in itself, or even a route back to the successes of previous eras. It is neither. A proper team culture is certainly important, but it's nothing without the necessary personnel.

The poster to whom I responded suggested that the Pistons sign Torrey Craig, a hardworking, defense-first player, to play alongside Bruce Brown, another hardworking, defense-first player, toward the end of building "culture." This was presumably a reference to the olden times, but building a defense-first culture and populating it with defense-first players who cannot shoot well is really going to lead nowhere. One such player is more than enough at times (for all I like Brown, he's still a liability because of his offense); two is certainly more than enough. People may pine back to the days of hard-nosed, shutdown defense, but those days are definitively dead; the NBA deliberately saw to that, long ago. Watching one's team disrupt the other to the point of insanity was fun for fans of the Pistons and the Spurs, but was very boring for everyone else.

I'm aware that it's Isiah. I default to the typical spelling by accident, not because of the other guy.

When I say culture I'm not talking about the team's play style or offense v defense, I more or less mean having a standard of playing hard every night. You can't just have a bunch of 1-3yr pros and expect them to figure it out themselves, you've got to have some vets who can go out there and set that standard. Having a high level of buy-in from the roster is usually the starting point to building a good team.

This franchise is in a holding pattern until we draft and develop some stars, it's highly unlikely we attract any top talent via trade or FA. In the meantime you need to get to work in fostering a good environment for prospects to develop. This hopefully leads to these young players not only becoming good players, but becoming winning ball players.

[Canadafan]

Detroit doesn't have any capspace if the plan is to re-sign Chris Wood. Also I'd be willing to bet the plan is to keep Galloway as well.

Hows that work? Dont we have big cap space, hopefully to use in trades, and then can go over the cap to keep Wood?

[Crymson]

When I say culture I'm not talking about the team's play style or offense v defense, I more or less mean having a standard of playing hard every night. You can't just have a bunch of 1-3yr pros and expect them to figure it out themselves, you've got to have some vets who can go out there and set that standard. Having a high level of buy-in from the roster is usually the starting point to building a good team.

This franchise is in a holding pattern until we draft and develop some stars, it's highly unlikely we attract any top talent via trade or FA. In the meantime you need to get to work in fostering a good environment for prospects to develop. This hopefully leads to these young players not only becoming good players, but becoming winning ball players.

Playing hard doesn't matter if you don't play right. Torrey Craig is an offensively-challenged, defense-first player. We already have one of those in Bruce Brown. Why bring in another to gum up the works? I agree that some veteran leadership is necessary, but I'd argue that adding guys who do not play the way that's necessary to win games is not the proper course. Beyond that, every unnecessary veteran on the roster takes away a roster spot and minutes from a youngster who might ultimately have more value to the organization.

I question the validity of "buy-in" at this stage, given that the Pistons are still far off; into what are the young players going to buy? The rebuild? There is no culture right now; it's a rebuild. Players will come and go. Having the proper young talent, not a high level of "buy-in," is the starting point to building a good team.

[Billl]

It's not an either or. You need talented players who play hard on both ends. You aren't going to win anything without checking those 2 boxes. Anyone who doesn't check both boxes shouldn't be considered part of a core for a rebuild.

[Kilo]

Detroit doesn't have any capspace if the plan is to re-sign Chris Wood. Also I'd be willing to bet the plan is to keep Galloway as well.

Hows that work? Dont we have big cap space, hopefully to use in trades, and then can go over the cap to keep Wood?

No, as Wood is only an EBR player meaning Detroit can only match up to 175% of last years salary and since Chris only made $2M give or take it means we could only match up to a $3.75M offer and he's not signing for that of course. So all our FA money will have to go to his offer sheet first.

[Canadafan]

It's not an either or. You need talented players who play hard on both ends. You aren't going to win anything without checking those 2 boxes. Anyone who doesn't check both boxes shouldn't be considered part of a core for a rebuild.

Raptors are prime example of that

[Crymson]

Detroit doesn't have any capspace if the plan is to re-sign Chris Wood. Also I'd be willing to bet the plan is to keep Galloway as well.

Hows that work? Dont we have big cap space, hopefully to use in trades, and then can go over the cap to keep Wood?

No, as Wood is only an EBR player meaning Detroit can only match up to 175% of last years salary and since Chris only made $2M give or take it means we could only match up to a $3.75M offer and he's not signing for that of course. So all our FA money will have to go to his offer sheet first.

Early Bird is 175% of previous season's salary or 105% of the league's average salary in the previous season, whichever is higher. The league's estimated average salary for 2019-2020 is around $9.5m; Wood can be signed with Early Bird to a four-year contract totaling around $40 million.

[Richard4444]

Hows that work? Dont we have big cap space, hopefully to use in trades, and then can go over the cap to keep Wood?

No, as Wood is only an EBR player meaning Detroit can only match up to 175% of last years salary and since Chris only made $2M give or take it means we could only match up to a $3.75M offer and he's not signing for that of course. So all our FA money will have to go to his offer sheet first.

Early Bird is 175% of previous season's salary or 105% of the league's average salary in the previous season, whichever is higher. The league's estimated average salary for 2019-2020 is around $9.5m; Wood can be signed with Early Bird to a four-year contract totaling around $40 million.

Knicks, Hawks and Hornets should offer Wood a higher amount. Furthermore, the league's average salary is not far from MLE (It was 9,3M this season). Capped teams could bid for Woods too.

[Crymson]

No, as Wood is only an EBR player meaning Detroit can only match up to 175% of last years salary and since Chris only made $2M give or take it means we could only match up to a $3.75M offer and he's not signing for that of course. So all our FA money will have to go to his offer sheet first.

Early Bird is 175% of previous season's salary or 105% of the league's average salary in the previous season, whichever is higher. The league's estimated average salary for 2019-2020 is around $9.5m; Wood can be signed with Early Bird to a four-year contract totaling around $40 million.

Knicks, Hawks and Hornets should offer Wood a higher amount. Furthermore, the league's average salary is not far from MLE (It was 9,3M this season). Capped teams could bid for Woods too.

The Pistons have straight cap space with which to sign Wood. Early Bird only becomes a consideration if signing him will put the Pistons over the cap.

[bstein14]

I think we likely are over estimating what Wood will get on the open market this fall. I think the virus really cut short his chance to go out there any play as a number one option. Plus he is going to be an afterthought as other FA's will emerge during these playoffs as well. I think he is at best a 4 year $60 million player.

His worst case 4 years $40 million
His most likely case 4 years $50 million
His best case 4 years $60 million

Considering he has never made any money in this league, he would be foolish not to take a 4 year deal. He is also still young enough a 4 year deal could line him up for one more big payday if he does indeed work his way into becoming an all-star caliber player.

[Kilo]

I think we likely are over estimating what Wood will get on the open market this fall. I think the virus really cut short his chance to go out there any play as a number one option. Plus he is going to be an afterthought as other FA's will emerge during these playoffs as well. I think he is at best a 4 year $60 million player.

His worst case 4 years $40 million
His most likely case 4 years $50 million
His best case 4 years $60 million

Considering he has never made any money in this league, he would be foolish not to take a 4 year deal. He is also still young enough a 4 year deal could line him up for one more big payday if he does indeed work his way into becoming an all-star caliber player.

I disagree. He's never made money so a 2+PO with an AAV of $12M is life changing. Get $24M over two and then bet on yourself and hit free agency again to get the baller money offer if you are as good as you believe you are. His next contract could be $140M+ hitting the UFA market at 27yrs old.