Kennards value?

[thesack12]

One thing I find funny is Pope was a career 33% from 3 while he was in Detroit, yet he was widely viewed as a good 3&D player.

Hell Pope's overall FG% peaked at 42% in his 3rd year here, with 2 years < 40% and another right at 40%.

While Bruce's 34% from deep isn't all that impressive, if you consider he raised it more than 8.5% from his rookie season it looks fairly promising. He also raised his overall FG% by 4.5% this year up to 44.5%.

Brown is a better ball handler, passer, on ball defender, and rebounder than Pope ever was. Brown is not a high end prospect by any means, but he doesn't get nearly enough credit.

[thesack12]

Regarding Kennard's value, no matter how you view his value at the moment, its going to decrease dramatically once he signs his new contract.

I honestly don't get the logic behind paying that guy. Shooters are great an all, but they aren't moving the needle if you don't have the centerpieces to accompany them. On a good team, at best Kennard is your 4th best player. So why are you paying that guy when you don't currently have player 1 2 or 3?

Once you lock Kennard into a long term deal, your best hope then becomes you moving him for a 1st somewhere down the line. In which case, if you are being offered the pick now why wait? If you do wait and sign him, you allow too many variables into the equation. His health, does some GM offer him some crazy contract, the looming cap drop, does he regress, etc. Then even if it does all work out, you would have to take back a sizable contract when you do move Kennard for a pick down the line.

So again, why wait? If a pick is being offered now, take it.

[mattao313]

One thing I find funny is Pope was a career 33% from 3 while he was in Detroit, yet he was widely viewed as a good 3&D player.

Hell Pope's overall FG% peaked at 42% in his 3rd year here, with 2 years < 40% and another right at 40%.

While Bruce's 34% from deep isn't all that impressive, if you consider he raised it more than 8.5% from his rookie season it looks fairly promising. He also raised his overall FG% by 4.5% this year up to 44.5%.

Brown is a better ball handler, passer, on ball defender, and rebounder than Pope ever was. Brown is not a high end prospect by any means, but he doesn't get nearly enough credit.

Its not comparable imo KCP had a shooters mentality and was a high volume guy taking like 6 threes a game. Brown barely shoots them and the game plan against him is to leave him open.

[thesack12]

One thing I find funny is Pope was a career 33% from 3 while he was in Detroit, yet he was widely viewed as a good 3&D player.

Hell Pope's overall FG% peaked at 42% in his 3rd year here, with 2 years < 40% and another right at 40%.

While Bruce's 34% from deep isn't all that impressive, if you consider he raised it more than 8.5% from his rookie season it looks fairly promising. He also raised his overall FG% by 4.5% this year up to 44.5%.

Brown is a better ball handler, passer, on ball defender, and rebounder than Pope ever was. Brown is not a high end prospect by any means, but he doesn't get nearly enough credit.

Its not comparable imo KCP had a shooters mentality and was a high volume guy taking like 6 threes a game. Brown barely shoots them and the game plan against him is to leave him open.

My post was more referring to why its baffling to me that Brown gets hardly any love while Pope was considered a very good prospect by a lot of people. But since 3 point shooting is more relevant topic here...

Yeah, they definitely have different styles.

Still, when Brown is only .6% below Pope's high water mark from 3 I honestly don't see how 1 guy can be considered a complete liability from deep while the other guy was considered a good 3&D guy.

And yes, I'm aware that all stats/percentages aren't aggregated equally. That said, Brown's 3 point prowess is firmly on the upswing. He has clearly proven he can improve that part of his game. So its not out of the question to see him up his percentages to 36-37% on 2-3 shots per game next season. If he can get to that level, we'll need to remove the he can't shoot label off of him.

[Pharaoh]

One thing I find funny is Pope was a career 33% from 3 while he was in Detroit, yet he was widely viewed as a good 3&D player.

Hell Pope's overall FG% peaked at 42% in his 3rd year here, with 2 years < 40% and another right at 40%.

While Bruce's 34% from deep isn't all that impressive, if you consider he raised it more than 8.5% from his rookie season it looks fairly promising. He also raised his overall FG% by 4.5% this year up to 44.5%.

Brown is a better ball handler, passer, on ball defender, and rebounder than Pope ever was. Brown is not a high end prospect by any means, but he doesn't get nearly enough credit.

Its not comparable imo KCP had a shooters mentality and was a high volume guy taking like 6 threes a game. Brown barely shoots them and the game plan against him is to leave him open.

My post was more referring to why its baffling to me that Brown gets hardly any love while Pope was considered a very good prospect by a lot of people. But since 3 point shooting is more relevant topic here...

Yeah, they definitely have different styles.

Still, when Brown is only .6% below Pope's high water mark from 3 I honestly don't see how 1 guy can be considered a complete liability from deep while the other guy was considered a good 3&D guy.

And yes, I'm aware that all stats/percentages aren't aggregated equally. That said, Brown's 3 point prowess is firmly on the upswing. He has clearly proven he can improve that part of his game. So its not out of the question to see him up his percentages to 36-37% on 2-3 shots per game next season. If he can get to that level, we'll need to remove the he can't shoot label off of him.

The argument will be made that Brown doesn't launch them at the rate KCP did in those season.

One could then counter with the idea that if you remove the above the break percentage Brown is damn near lights out!

I'm sure we'll see what he's made of next season. After all he's only played 2 seasons.

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app

[Crymson]

Luke's value to the Pistons depends on Svi's development as well. Should Svi show enough progress, Luke could be moved for a pick or two by the deadline.

Svi and Luke are not redundant. Svi cannot handle the ball and is absolutely hopeless from within the arc. The same cannot be said of Kennard.

That said, Svi's limitations mean that he will come much cheaper than Luke.

[dVs33]

Regarding brown, he was a second round pick that has shown improvement from the outside. There's no reason to think he can't continue improving. Plus he does a lot of other things well to justify playing time. That's a lot better than most of our recent picks. I'll take that.

Regarding Svi v Luke, luke has a much higher ceiling imo. Svi hasn't shown much outside of his shooting whereas Luke has shown a lot more play making/ballhandling abilities. If Luke can stay healthy theyll make a good outside combo.

[Crymson]

Regarding brown, he was a second round pick that has shown improvement from the outside. There's no reason to think he can't continue improving. Plus he does a lot of other things well to justify playing time. That's a lot better than most of our recent picks. I'll take that.

I like Bruce, and he's certainly got the work ethic necessary to make progress. That said, he's already 24; we'll probably know sooner rather than later if he's going to make that jump. Some guys never put it together no matter how hard they work. That said, I think he'll be with the Pistons in the long term either way.

I don't agree that he does enough to justify playing time, at least in a vacuum. For the Pistons, sure. Had he been drafted by a good team, I doubt he'd have seen any significant minutes at this stage of his career; he's hasn't been good enough to crack the rotation of an effective roster.

Regarding Svi v Luke, luke has a much higher ceiling imo. Svi hasn't shown much outside of his shooting whereas Luke has shown a lot more play making/ballhandling abilities. If Luke can stay healthy theyll make a good outside combo.

I doubt they'll be on the roster together in the long term, and any lineup that fields them both is asking to get shredded on defense. That would be one of the worst defensive wing duos in the league, and what they'd provide on the other end would not be enough to compensate.

[bstein14]

Hawks are shopping #6 looking for immediate help. I am firmly in the keep Kennard camp, but I'd trade him straight up for #6. Kennard would actually be a solid guy to pair with Young.

[chrbal]

Hawks are shopping #6 looking for immediate help. I am firmly in the keep Kennard camp, but I'd trade him straight up for #6. Kennard would actually be a solid guy to pair with Young.

I can’t see Atlanta ever doing that. The Pistons would have to be insane not to do that

[Billl]

Hawks are shopping #6 looking for immediate help. I am firmly in the keep Kennard camp, but I'd trade him straight up for #6. Kennard would actually be a solid guy to pair with Young.

That would be an absolute steal.... and there is no way atlanta does that.

[MotownMadness]

Yeah they wouldn't do that but it would be awesome to get ahold of 6 and 7 like that.

[440BB]

I'd trade him for #6 in a heartbeat, kickstart the rebuild. It won't happen.

[Pharaoh]

We'd have to give them more than Luke to get #6.

Depending on what they ask for we should look at it.

DRose & Luke for 6? I'm guessing Teague is a free agent and unless he takes a 1 year deal they wouldn't be bringing him back so Rose makes some sense for them.

Assuming Luke is worth a pick in the 10-20 range in this Draft (due to his health and contract situation) is DRose enough to make up the difference?

Capela - Dedmon
Collins
Hunter - Reddish
Luke - Huerter
Trae - DRose

Maybe they sign a vet big and see what the kids can do next season while maintaining their cap flexibility in the hope they land a big free agent fish come 2021.

Sent from my SM-A520F using RealGM mobile app

[LaSheed]

Jesus I wish.

[vic]

One thing I find funny is Pope was a career 33% from 3 while he was in Detroit, yet he was widely viewed as a good 3&D player.

Hell Pope's overall FG% peaked at 42% in his 3rd year here, with 2 years < 40% and another right at 40%.

While Bruce's 34% from deep isn't all that impressive, if you consider he raised it more than 8.5% from his rookie season it looks fairly promising. He also raised his overall FG% by 4.5% this year up to 44.5%.

Brown is a better ball handler, passer, on ball defender, and rebounder than Pope ever was. Brown is not a high end prospect by any means, but he doesn't get nearly enough credit.

100% agreed.

Bruce Brown is a Piston thru and thru and I really hope the GM and Coach know what they have. Hes a guy that you'll need either at pg for injury insurance or off the bench for a future championship team.

[vic]

I dont mind trading Luke for a 1st rounder but I'm not trading Luke without getting something in the lottery.

To be honest I really like Luke. His value really depends on the creativity of the coaching staff and gm.

If they are willing to use Luke as a big initiator like James Harden or Luka Doncic and really coach him into that then yes he's a keeper.

But if they want him to play catch & shoot and watch Blake post people up and wait for Blake to pass him the ball then they might as well trade him for a pick because he's not worth it if hes just a slow shooting guard that can't play defense.

If hes used as a big primary floorspacing playmaker then hes worth keeping.

[King Bugs]

If they are willing to use Luke as a big initiator like James Harden or Luka Doncic and really coach him into that then yes he's a keeper.

Luke is not good enough to play as a Luka/Harden point-shooting guard. Teams will just throw some combination of their fastest/longest/tallest wing defenders and make him struggle. He's too slow and unathletic. Yeah... he has a handle, but he can't reliably break defenses down with his lack of speed. He needs to play off of better talent so teams can't key in on him like that.

Then on the other side of the ball we'll have to deal with teams "matchup-hunting" him all game putting him in pick and rolls & forcing switches so they can victimize him in one-on-one situations. I still remain unconvinced that Luke can give us enough on O to not be an overall net negative and that's enough for me to want him off the team.

I know some fans are still enamored by Luke's perceived skillset, but his ceiling will always be capped by his below average physical profile and athleticism (also his knees...). Luke is not a starter on a team with playoff aspirations.

[Manocad]

If they are willing to use Luke as a big initiator like James Harden or Luka Doncic and really coach him into that then yes he's a keeper.

Luke is not good enough to play as a Luka/Harden point-shooting guard. Teams will just throw some combination of their fastest/longest/tallest wing defenders and make him struggle. He's too slow and unathletic. Yeah... he has a handle, but he can't reliably break defenses down with his lack of speed. He needs to play off of better talent so teams can't key in on him like that.

Then on the other side of the ball we'll have to deal with teams "matchup-hunting" him all game putting him in pick and rolls & forcing switches so they can victimize him in one-on-one situations. I still remain unconvinced that Luke can give us enough on O to not be an overall net negative and that's enough for me to want him off the team.

I know some fans are still enamored by Luke's perceived skillset, but his ceiling will always be capped by his below average physical profile and athleticism (also his knees...). Luke is not a starter on a team with playoff aspirations.

That's the stat I think gets overlooked too often on both sides of the ball. As you said, people get enamored with what a player CAN do and forget the other side of it--at what cost?

[vic]

Yes I know Luke is a negative on D, but as a big guard that’s his best possible position to defend. He’s not stopping any wings. At least he’s strong enough to battle with smaller point guards.

Luka and Harden are both known to be negatives on D as well, but their floor spacing and playmaking makes them playable. That’s the only realistic role I can see for Luke on a good team is as playmaker.