Christian Wood didn’t want to leave Detroit

[thesack12]

Just to sorta take this in another direction, the following players received significantly larger contracts than Wood:

Davis Bertans 5/80
Marcus Morris 5/64
Jerami Grant 3/60 (I wasn't going to include him as he was our signing, but decided to given reports the Nuggets offered the same)
Malik Beasley 4/60
Danilo Gallinary 3/61

The following got comparable deals

KCP 3/40
Jordan Clarkson 4/52

To be clear, I'm not necessarily saying Wood is better than these players or vice versa. For the most part they're totally different players. This is more of a general value gage here. But is it POSSIBLE we as fans valued him more than the general market did? That maybe NBA GM's weren't giving as much weight to his run at the end of the year as we were?

Yeah, this is best we can do as a gauge, but I'm not sure its too accurate of one.

Bertans was a massive overpay, probably the worst contract signed this cycle
Marcus Morris is 31 years old
Gallinari is 32 years old
Both Pope and Clarkson are very much plateaued, you know what your getting type veterans.

All of Bertans/Morris/Pope/and Clarkson returned to their old teams, so they seemingly weren't looking for help outside.

Which only leaves Grant and Beasley as decent comparisons. Weaver obviously chose Grant over Wood, so not much need to further evaluate him. As for Beasley, unlike Wood, he has played a big role for his teams for multiple seasons.

With the exception of Beasley, there aren't any signings that are apt comparisons to Wood. Wood is still an infant when it comes to experience, and he just oozes upside as a prototypical big in today's NBA.

Maybe the lack of track record scared some teams off, but there was wasn't a ton of options out there for Wood to get an offer above MLE either.

[Billl]

I was hoping wood would stay, but let's be realistic. 99% of players are going to opt to go play with Harden over us at this point if the money was remotely close. I'm OK with weaver not overpaying wood for the same reason I'm upset about weaver overpaying Grant. We should be at year zero of a rebuild. We should be accumulating young talent the next couple years and it's likely to take a couple years after that for those guys to mature and gel. I think both wood and grant are nice players entering their primes, but I don't think they contribute to "assembling young talent" and I don't think they are good enough to be a cornerstone we would try to build around any sooner than the current plan.

So you think Harden is bluffing about wanting out of Houston and requesting a trade, and Houston is going to call that bluff and risk alienating him?

I agree with the rest in overall theme, but I disagree that 3 years/$41 mil is an overpay for Wood. At that price he is a trade asset at worst.

Yes, I think houston will keep harden. And my point was that if the money is even close to equal, he was going to bolt to a better team. We were going to need to outbid teams by a large margin.

[thesack12]

I was hoping wood would stay, but let's be realistic. 99% of players are going to opt to go play with Harden over us at this point if the money was remotely close. I'm OK with weaver not overpaying wood for the same reason I'm upset about weaver overpaying Grant. We should be at year zero of a rebuild. We should be accumulating young talent the next couple years and it's likely to take a couple years after that for those guys to mature and gel. I think both wood and grant are nice players entering their primes, but I don't think they contribute to "assembling young talent" and I don't think they are good enough to be a cornerstone we would try to build around any sooner than the current plan.

So you think Harden is bluffing about wanting out of Houston and requesting a trade, and Houston is going to call that bluff and risk alienating him?

I agree with the rest in overall theme, but I disagree that 3 years/$41 mil is an overpay for Wood. At that price he is a trade asset at worst.

Yes, I think houston will keep harden. And my point was that if the money is even close to equal, he was going to bolt to a better team. We were going to need to outbid teams by a large margin.

Stars requesting trades (Kawhi, George, Porzingis, Kyrie, Butler all immediately come to mind) are usually pretty successful in getting their desires met. But Lakers managed to successfully talk Kobe down off the ledge, so its not unprecedented to mend fences.

If Houston does blow it up moving Harden and Russ, they won't be a better team than Detroit. But that south Texas climate will always be better.

[Snakebites]

Just to sorta take this in another direction, the following players received significantly larger contracts than Wood:

Davis Bertans 5/80
Marcus Morris 5/64
Jerami Grant 3/60 (I wasn't going to include him as he was our signing, but decided to given reports the Nuggets offered the same)
Malik Beasley 4/60
Danilo Gallinari 3/61

The following got comparable deals

KCP 3/40
Jordan Clarkson 4/52

To be clear, I'm not necessarily saying Wood is better than these players or vice versa. For the most part they're totally different players. This is more of a general value gage here. But is it POSSIBLE we as fans valued him more than the general market did? That maybe NBA GM's weren't giving as much weight to his run at the end of the year as we were?

Yeah, this is best we can do as a gauge, but I'm not sure its too accurate of one.

Bertans was a massive overpay, probably the worst contract signed this cycle
Marcus Morris is 31 years old
Gallinari is 32 years old
Both Pope and Clarkson are very much plateaued, you know what your getting type veterans.

All of Bertans/Morris/Pope/and Clarkson returned to their old teams, so they seemingly weren't looking for help outside.

Which only leaves Grant and Beasley as decent comparisons. Weaver obviously chose Grant over Wood, so not much need to further evaluate him. As for Beasley, unlike Wood, he has played a big role for his teams for multiple seasons.

With the exception of Beasley, there aren't any signings that are apt comparisons to Wood. Wood is still an infant when it comes to experience, and he just oozes upside as a prototypical big in today's NBA.

Maybe the lack of track record scared some teams off, but there was wasn't a ton of options out there for Wood to get an offer above MLE either.

I don't know if any one is an accurate indicator, but I do think that looking at all of these in the aggregate is a decent way of gaging market value (not actual value- that's subjective).

I think most Pistons fans would have placed Christian Wood above virtually all of these players on the totem poll of value.

It's clear that NBA teams did not, at least in my opinion.

[thesack12]

Just to sorta take this in another direction, the following players received significantly larger contracts than Wood:

Davis Bertans 5/80
Marcus Morris 5/64
Jerami Grant 3/60 (I wasn't going to include him as he was our signing, but decided to given reports the Nuggets offered the same)
Malik Beasley 4/60
Danilo Gallinary 3/61

The following got comparable deals

KCP 3/40
Jordan Clarkson 4/52

To be clear, I'm not necessarily saying Wood is better than these players or vice versa. For the most part they're totally different players. This is more of a general value gage here. But is it POSSIBLE we as fans valued him more than the general market did? That maybe NBA GM's weren't giving as much weight to his run at the end of the year as we were?

Yeah, this is best we can do as a gauge, but I'm not sure its too accurate of one.

Bertans was a massive overpay, probably the worst contract signed this cycle
Marcus Morris is 31 years old
Gallinari is 32 years old
Both Pope and Clarkson are very much plateaued, you know what your getting type veterans.

All of Bertans/Morris/Pope/and Clarkson returned to their old teams, so they seemingly weren't looking for help outside.

Which only leaves Grant and Beasley as decent comparisons. Weaver obviously chose Grant over Wood, so not much need to further evaluate him. As for Beasley, unlike Wood, he has played a big role for his teams for multiple seasons.

With the exception of Beasley, there aren't any signings that are apt comparisons to Wood. Wood is still an infant when it comes to experience, and he just oozes upside as a prototypical big in today's NBA.

Maybe the lack of track record scared some teams off, but there was wasn't a ton of options out there for Wood to get an offer above MLE either.

I don't know if any one is an accurate indicator, but I do think that looking at all of these in the aggregate is a decent way of gaging market value (not actual value- that's subjective).

I think most Pistons fans would have placed Christian Wood above virtually all of these players on the totem poll of value.

It's clear that NBA teams did not, at least in my opinion.

If Wood was a free agent in an offseason with more available cash, I would tend to agree.

In any event, I think its pretty safe to see that of all these, the Wood signing has the ability to pay off the biggest. In terms of value. Wood has the skills/ability/upside to way outperform that contract.

[Snakebites]

Yeah, this is best we can do as a gauge, but I'm not sure its too accurate of one.

Bertans was a massive overpay, probably the worst contract signed this cycle
Marcus Morris is 31 years old
Gallinari is 32 years old
Both Pope and Clarkson are very much plateaued, you know what your getting type veterans.

All of Bertans/Morris/Pope/and Clarkson returned to their old teams, so they seemingly weren't looking for help outside.

Which only leaves Grant and Beasley as decent comparisons. Weaver obviously chose Grant over Wood, so not much need to further evaluate him. As for Beasley, unlike Wood, he has played a big role for his teams for multiple seasons.

With the exception of Beasley, there aren't any signings that are apt comparisons to Wood. Wood is still an infant when it comes to experience, and he just oozes upside as a prototypical big in today's NBA.

Maybe the lack of track record scared some teams off, but there was wasn't a ton of options out there for Wood to get an offer above MLE either.

I don't know if any one is an accurate indicator, but I do think that looking at all of these in the aggregate is a decent way of gaging market value (not actual value- that's subjective).

I think most Pistons fans would have placed Christian Wood above virtually all of these players on the totem poll of value.

It's clear that NBA teams did not, at least in my opinion.

If Wood was a free agent in an offseason with more available cash, I would tend to agree.

In any event, I think its pretty safe to see that of all these, the Wood signing has the ability to pay off the biggest. In terms of value. Wood has the skills/ability/upside to way outperform that contract.

So your position is that the league valued him incorrectly relative to the other players.

That’s fine. It’s certainly happened before.

I think teams were worried about him underperforming. They considered him riskier than the others given a relatively small sample size on a team with no other substantial players during that run.

[thesack12]

I don't know if any one is an accurate indicator, but I do think that looking at all of these in the aggregate is a decent way of gaging market value (not actual value- that's subjective).

I think most Pistons fans would have placed Christian Wood above virtually all of these players on the totem poll of value.

It's clear that NBA teams did not, at least in my opinion.

If Wood was a free agent in an offseason with more available cash, I would tend to agree.

In any event, I think its pretty safe to see that of all these, the Wood signing has the ability to pay off the biggest. In terms of value. Wood has the skills/ability/upside to way outperform that contract.

So your position is that the league valued him incorrectly relative to the other players.

That’s fine. It’s certainly happened before.

I think teams were worried about him underperforming. They considered him riskier than the others given a relatively small sample size on a team with no other substantial players during that run.

Yeah, I mentioned a couple posts back that teams might have gotten scared off by his lack of a track record.

There also does seem to be some concerns about his character floating around as well, although I don't think he has ever ran into any actual problems because of character issues.

[BJK1]

He’s gone, so not much else to say about this from me, as it’s pretty much all been said here. But one last thought that disappoints me - what would a P&R with Hayes and Wood been like? I think Woods could have been an even more effective player with an actual capable P&R passer getting him the ball as a roll man. Scary thought. What could have been.

[7r5ur]

Yeah, if it is confirmed that Weaver wasn’t willing to match or even beat Houston’s deal by a little I’m gonna have to step away from this team for a while. If Weaver really thinks acquiring Plumlee instead is a better path for this team there are some seriously grim years of stagnation and poor decision making ahead.

Still kind of shocking that we got rid of most of our producing younger players (Luke, Wood, Bruce) and still have Rose and Blake. Like and Wood will be high quality starters in this league for many years to come. From them the only asset we got was Saddiq Bey, whom it is unlikely we’ll even play much.

[bstein14]

Sad thing is we could have easily had Wood + Grant. We would actually have a great 3 point shooting lineup with as well with a great young bench. We could have simnply moved Rose for a pick is we wanted a late first to go after Bey or Stewart but because he is a Tellum guy Rose gets to stay here and we ended up dumping a good young player with potential in Kennard. We also just gave away Brown for literally nothing and it still makes no sense to me.

PG: Brown 34.4% / Hayes
SG: Kennard 39.9% / SVI
SF: Grant 38.9% / Josh Jackson
PF: Blake 36.2% (previous year) / Skeou
C: Wood 38.6% / Okafor

That's a very solid starting 5 plus a young exciting bench. We didn't need all this other stuff that we did. We didn't need Plumlee. Weaver just ****

[pistonpat]

What's the final tally on what we gave up?

Last i checked it was:
- Future 1st (in Houston deal)
- 4 future 2nds (in the Clippers deal)
- Bruce Brown, Kennard, Snell
- Taking on between 8-15M of dead money
- Using up every $ of cap we had
- Locking our 1st round pick from being trade for the next four seasons

All so we could
- Sign Jerami Grant
- Sign Plumlee
- Make a huge reach to draft Stewart

Please let me know what i missed so i can add it to the running tally

Weaver had a super easy job
1. Trade Snell, Kennard, Rose, Brown - all small deals, all easy to be traded for 1st rounders/younger players
2. Avoid using any of the cap space up, sign all young guys on short 1-2 year deals, use the rest of absorb deals for 1st rounders
3. Trade Blake

Literally all he had to do and making those trades would have been easy with all these teams loading up in this summer's arms race against the Lakers

Seriously screw Gores. Im done with this team. Too many fun teams to watch with GMs/owners who actually care about making their team great.

Every chance we have at a reset we've ruined. Every. Fkin. Time.

Amazing how we spent all these years waiting to get out of cap hell and this was the end results how they used it. I can't wait to hear Weaver explain this, if the Detroit media even asks him the right questions. This is disappointing to say the least.

[pistonpat]

Sad thing is we could have easily had Wood + Grant. We would actually have a great 3 point shooting lineup with as well with a great young bench. We could have simnply moved Rose for a pick is we wanted a late first to go after Bey or Stewart but because he is a Tellum guy Rose gets to stay here and we ended up dumping a good young player with potential in Kennard. We also just gave away Brown for literally nothing and it still makes no sense to me.

PG: Brown 34.4% / Hayes
SG: Kennard 39.9% / SVI
SF: Grant 38.9% / Josh Jackson
PF: Blake 36.2% (previous year) / Skeou
C: Wood 38.6% / Okafor

That's a very solid starting 5 plus a young exciting bench. We didn't need all this other stuff that we did. We didn't need Plumlee. Weaver just ****

It was too easy...and we just wasted another opportunity.

[LaSheed]

Im guessing Weaver didn't like his work ethic?

Just based off who we signed in Plumlee/Grant. Known as very hard workers.

But then again Jackson had some immaturity issues as well so I guess I dont know for sure.

[Snakebites]

Im guessing Weaver didn't like his work ethic?

Just based off who we signed in Plumlee/Grant. Known as very hard workers.

But then again Jackson had some immaturity issues as well so I guess I dont know for sure.

Jackson also came at a virtually risk free price.

[DCintheD]

I’m hoping Saddiq Bey is the reason he wasn’t re-signed. Everything else makes zero sense.

[davidvolumes]

I find it very interesting that Trader Troy let Christian wood walk and kept Sekou. I would love to know what Weaver's opinion of Sekou is in the NBA

[Snakebites]

I find it very interesting that Trader Troy let Christian wood walk and kept Sekou. I would love to know what Weaver's opinion of Sekou is in the NBA

It may just be that he didn’t want to sell low. It is noteworthy that he’s like the only previous regime pick left.

[Piston Pete]

Sad thing is we could have easily had Wood + Grant. We would actually have a great 3 point shooting lineup with as well with a great young bench. We could have simnply moved Rose for a pick is we wanted a late first to go after Bey or Stewart but because he is a Tellum guy Rose gets to stay here and we ended up dumping a good young player with potential in Kennard. We also just gave away Brown for literally nothing and it still makes no sense to me.

PG: Brown 34.4% / Hayes
SG: Kennard 39.9% / SVI
SF: Grant 38.9% / Josh Jackson
PF: Blake 36.2% (previous year) / Skeou
C: Wood 38.6% / Okafor

That's a very solid starting 5 plus a young exciting bench. We didn't need all this other stuff that we did. We didn't need Plumlee. Weaver just ****

This...pretty much.

Then the next and basically only thing he would have had to do is find a taker for Blake around the deadline (assuming he was still healthy).

Commit to the youth and accumulate picks.

Weaver just done messed up, BIG TIME

[SamFlow]

Sad thing is we could have easily had Wood + Grant. We would actually have a great 3 point shooting lineup with as well with a great young bench. We could have simnply moved Rose for a pick is we wanted a late first to go after Bey or Stewart but because he is a Tellum guy Rose gets to stay here and we ended up dumping a good young player with potential in Kennard. We also just gave away Brown for literally nothing and it still makes no sense to me.

PG: Brown 34.4% / Hayes
SG: Kennard 39.9% / SVI
SF: Grant 38.9% / Josh Jackson
PF: Blake 36.2% (previous year) / Skeou
C: Wood 38.6% / Okafor

That's a very solid starting 5 plus a young exciting bench. We didn't need all this other stuff that we did. We didn't need Plumlee. Weaver just ****

This...pretty much.

Then the next and basically only thing he would have had to do is find a taker for Blake around the deadline (assuming he was still healthy).

Commit to the youth and accumulate picks.

Weaver just done messed up, BIG TIME

I'm ok with trading brown.
I'm ok with trading Kenard.

Many outsiders are saying Detroit is the losers of the offseason.

If we would have kept Wood, I would have said we are winners of the offseason.
There are still other moves to make, i'll assume. But as an outsider of management, We would have been so much better with Wood.

I even understand getting big body centers. a couple low priced ones. Love the okafor signing. Would have much rather had wood over plumlee. I think the team would have been much better.
...

I doubt we'll know for years why for real. Maybe there was a little attitude problem that came along with the stats. I don't know.

Wood
blake
grant
josh
Kilian.... I'd be really excited to see that play out.

[DBC10]

Sad thing is we could have easily had Wood + Grant. We would actually have a great 3 point shooting lineup with as well with a great young bench. We could have simnply moved Rose for a pick is we wanted a late first to go after Bey or Stewart but because he is a Tellum guy Rose gets to stay here and we ended up dumping a good young player with potential in Kennard. We also just gave away Brown for literally nothing and it still makes no sense to me.

PG: Brown 34.4% / Hayes
SG: Kennard 39.9% / SVI
SF: Grant 38.9% / Josh Jackson
PF: Blake 36.2% (previous year) / Skeou
C: Wood 38.6% / Okafor

That's a very solid starting 5 plus a young exciting bench. We didn't need all this other stuff that we did. We didn't need Plumlee. Weaver just ****

The Brown trade still doesn't make much sense to me at all. I know I was bit of a proponent for him but also I think we really undersold ourselves here. He deserved another year to see how he does with the young core before shipping him off for a nothingburger. We had zero to lose to see how he does since we essentially got zero in return for the actual trade?

Which further reiterates my stance so far: that had Weaver not done anything after the draft and just signed some vet minimums and attempting to keep Wood, we would arguably be in a better spot. In other words, Weaver got too cute