No Cade, no one cares apparently. Wolves/Pistons 3:30

[MotorCade2]

Grant took 11 shots and is still being called a blackhole who needs to pass more... Please.

This game? Yeah. He wasn't hitting jack diddly and kept driving into collapsing defenses. There's no honor or value in trying to force yourself on the opponent after it's clear they're kicking your ass.

Yeah he got shut down twice in the paint and that is why he only took 11 shots. He literally did what you are suggesting, stopped shooting. He hardly tried to score after that.

[Manocad]

Nah, its more then just the games though. It is age and being around the NBA too. He should be learning how to improve his game and isn't showing any improvement. He is the same cowardice 7ppg guard he has always been. He was supposed to be a go-to scoring guard coming out of the draft. He has literally been the exact opposite. His offense is scary bad.

So you're defending Grant's 10 points on 3-11 shooting and crapping on Killian's 10 points on 5-7 shooting as "scary bad" offense coming from a "coward"? Seriously?

So whose burner account are you?

[Manocad]

Interesting. We have a new one busting Hayes chops, and defending Grant's iso ball. Spicy.

And after THIS game? The epitome of "DOOOOD--pick your spots better, bro."

[vege]

Grant should be ashamed of how selfish he plays. If you have an off night scoring then rebound. Do something.

He have 5 assists...

He plays as if he's the number one option. Five assists is not good enough on 3 for 11 shooting. On a team desperate for size, rebound. Killian play 23 minutes Grant 31 minutes. Killian had three rebounds Grant had 2 rebounds. As a #1 or#2 option I say no to keeping Grant. The player He was in Denver I wouldn't hesitate to keep him.

Why are you so mad bro? Did Grant insult you or what?

[MotorCade2]

Nah, its more then just the games though. It is age and being around the NBA too. He should be learning how to improve his game and isn't showing any improvement. He is the same cowardice 7ppg guard he has always been. He was supposed to be a go-to scoring guard coming out of the draft. He has literally been the exact opposite. His offense is scary bad.

So you're defending Grant's 10 points on 3-11 shooting and crapping on Killian's 10 points on 5-7 shooting as "scary bad" offense coming from a "coward"? Seriously?

So whose burner account are you?

No I am just pointing out the nonsense with the Grant comments. I already said he played terrible today but to criticize him as selfish today is silly when he only takes 11 shots and has 5 assists. For Killian, I also said he played great today but obviously I am not silly enough to take 5 minutes of good play and regain hope in him.

[zeebneeb]

Interesting. We have a new one busting Hayes chops, and defending Grant's iso ball. Spicy.

And after this game? The epitome of "DOOOOD--pick your spots better, bro."

When it comes to sports, there is a mountain of evidence that playing the long game is the best bet. This is not an opinion, this is fact.

Going after Hayes after 67 games, while defending Grant's play(and iso ball)after this game is such a bizarre take, I won't even begin to try. It's just wierd.

Some players shoot out of the gate, and make an immediate impact.(Jordan)some take a few months to start coming on(Cade apparently)while other take years to truly evolve into what everyone expected(Billups). This is true in any sport.

[thesack12]

Grant should be ashamed of how selfish he plays. If you have an off night scoring then rebound. Do something.

He have 5 assists...

yeah I don't get the Grant hate. He didn't play great but on average he literally does everything on the court and is the ideal modern 2 way NBA PF. He is definitely a willing passer. I personally would prefer resigning him if we can't get a really good draft pick or something for him.

Last time I checked, rebounding was part of doing "everything on the court." On average, Jerami Grant is the worst rebounder of the 5 Pistons regular starters. He's also worse than Trey Lyles, who plays 13 less minutes per game than Grant.

Grant is a terrible rebounder for a PF.

Also "on average" Grant has the 7th most Assists per game on the team, despite taking the most shots per game and having the highest usage on the team.

Grant also has quite poor shooting percentages, despite taking so many shots (41 FG%, 34 3PT%.)

[MotorCade2]

Interesting. We have a new one busting Hayes chops, and defending Grant's iso ball. Spicy.

Hayes deserves to have his chops busted. I liked the pick when we drafted him too but lets not deny reality. He is straight trash. If you want to continue to have hope in him then that is fine. To each their own. Grant is one of the most coveted players on the draft market for a reason. Emotional Pistons fans just cant except when one of their draft picks sucks or when they want a new shiny toy for Grant instead of holding onto a sure thing who wants to be here.

[Manocad]

Nah, its more then just the games though. It is age and being around the NBA too. He should be learning how to improve his game and isn't showing any improvement. He is the same cowardice 7ppg guard he has always been. He was supposed to be a go-to scoring guard coming out of the draft. He has literally been the exact opposite. His offense is scary bad.

So you're defending Grant's 10 points on 3-11 shooting and crapping on Killian's 10 points on 5-7 shooting as "scary bad" offense coming from a "coward"? Seriously?

So whose burner account are you?

No I am just pointing out the nonsense with the Grant comments. I already said he played terrible today but to criticize him as selfish today is silly when he only takes 11 shots and has 5 assists. For Killian, I also said he played great today but obviously I am not silly enough to take 5 minutes of good play and regain hope in him.

And a lot of us aren't silly enough to think that Grant won't continue to push his "I'm the #1 option"/iso ball agenda which is why defenses collapse on him and render him an inefficient scorer. The difference is you picked THIS GAME to criticize Hayes as bad when he had a really good game, while those of us criticizing Grant are doing so in a game he deserved to be criticized for, and for doing the same things he's always done.

[MotorCade2]

Last time I checked, rebounding was part of doing "everything on the court." On average, Jerami Grant is the worst rebounder of the 5 Pistons regular starters. He's also worse than Trey Lyles, who plays 13 less minutes per game than Grant.

Grant is a terrible rebounder for a PF.

Also "on average" Grant has the 7th most Assists per game on the team, despite taking the most shots per game and having the highest usage on the team.

Grant also has quite poor shooting percentages, despite taking so many shots (41 FG%, 34 3PT%.)

Yeah he could rebound better. I don't care about how many assists he is having honestly. He is a willing passer and that is what matters but his main job is scoring. Everyone has their role. Virtually everyone on our team has putrid percentages. Grant's are actually better then most of our best players. The dude isn't an MVP candidate for crying out loud but he is one of the most versatile two-way players in the NBA. He is borderline allstar that defends. That isn't something to crap on. If we get another star player to pair with Cade in this draft and we use our capspace to add another major piece then Grant is the PERFECT 3rd or 4th guy you want on a winning team.

[MotorCade2]

And a lot of us aren't silly enough to think that Grant won't continue to push his "I'm the #1 option"/iso ball agenda which is why defenses collapse on him and render him an inefficient scorer. The difference is you picked THIS GAME to criticize Hayes as bad when he had a really good game, while those of us criticizing Grant are doing so in a game he deserved to be criticized for, and for doing the same things he's always done.

Dude, stopping ignoring what I am saying just because you are wrong. I already said Hayes had a great game. I am not criticizing him based on this game. I was just talking about Hayes in general and I have made that very clear already. He played great today. He has been pure hot garbage almost every other game.

[DTP]

Well, I think the idea is to have him play next to Cade. Regardless I prefer keeping him on the bench if anything but wouldn't mind trading him and targeting Ivey or Sharpe in the draft.

If he plays the way he's playing in these last five minutes ALL the time, he'd be great next to Cade.

I agree but I don't have any confidence in him anymore. He has had a very long time to put it together and he already has a lot of natural talent and still can't figure it out. I like the Hayes pick but I am not keeping Hayes in my future plans at this point. I wouldn't mind giving him a chance off the bench to see if he can figure it out but if not then oh well.

A very long time? Dude hasn't even played a full season yet.

[Manocad]

Interesting. We have a new one busting Hayes chops, and defending Grant's iso ball. Spicy.

Hayes deserves to have his chops busted. I liked the pick when we drafted him too but lets not deny reality. He is straight trash. If you want to continue to have hope in him then that is fine. To each their own. Grant is one of the most coveted players on the draft market for a reason. Emotional Pistons fans just cant except when one of their draft picks sucks or when they want a new shiny toy for Grant instead of holding onto a sure thing who wants to be here.

Not this game.

Pick your spots better. Don't try to move the goalposts with "Well, yeah, he was good THIS GAME, but..." when obviously the impetus for bringing up the criticism of him was THIS GAME. It would be like popping into a game thread and talking about how Cade needs to take more control on offense, then when people say "Uh, dude--he's not playing," you say "Well, yeah, not THIS GAME, but..."

[MotorCade2]

A very long time? Dude hasn't even played a full season yet.

He has been in the league for 2 years and has hardly shown any improvement. Listen, I understand you all are very emotional about Hayes and don't want to accept facts. If you want to continue to have hope in him then fine. I seriously hope you are right and would be very happy. However, I DON'T have any confidence in him based on everything I have seen. I am not trying to force you to give up blind up. I am just saying I prefer to find a better guard to go with Cade in the backcourt at this point. Sorry if that upsets you. I am getting Stanley Johnson vibes from Hayes at this point. All the potential and no improvement.

[MotorCade2]

Interesting. We have a new one busting Hayes chops, and defending Grant's iso ball. Spicy.

Hayes deserves to have his chops busted. I liked the pick when we drafted him too but lets not deny reality. He is straight trash. If you want to continue to have hope in him then that is fine. To each their own. Grant is one of the most coveted players on the draft market for a reason. Emotional Pistons fans just cant except when one of their draft picks sucks or when they want a new shiny toy for Grant instead of holding onto a sure thing who wants to be here.

Not this game.

Pick your spots better. Don't try to move the goalposts with "Well, yeah, he was good THIS GAME, but..." when obviously the impetus for bringing up the criticism of him was THIS GAME. It would be like popping into a game thread and talking about how Cade needs to take more control on offense, then when people say "Uh, dude--he's not playing," you say "Well, yeah, not THIS GAME, but..."

My goodness, you are a broken record man. I started talking about Hayes BEFORE he even started playing well. I have said 3 or 4 times now I am not criticizing how he played today. Let it go man and learn to comprehend simple posts. I shouldn't need to explain this 4 times to you.

[DTP]

A very long time? Dude hasn't even played a full season yet.

He has been in the league for 2 years and has hardly shown any improvement. Listen, I understand you all are very emotional about Hayes and don't want to accept facts. If you want to continue to have hope in him then fine. I seriously hope you are right and would be very happy. However, I DON'T have any confidence in him based on everything I have seen. I am not trying to force you to give up blind up. I am just saying I prefer to find a better guard to go with Cade in the backcourt at this point. Sorry if that upsets you. I am getting Stanley Johnson vibes from Hayes at this point. All the potential and no improvement.

Agreed man....the kid hasn't figured it out in 67 games (despite being probably the best perimeter defender and best passer on the team) so he's definitely a dud. Should probably waive him at this point.

[MotorCade2]

A very long time? Dude hasn't even played a full season yet.

He has been in the league for 2 years and has hardly shown any improvement. Listen, I understand you all are very emotional about Hayes and don't want to accept facts. If you want to continue to have hope in him then fine. I seriously hope you are right and would be very happy. However, I DON'T have any confidence in him based on everything I have seen. I am not trying to force you to give up blind up. I am just saying I prefer to find a better guard to go with Cade in the backcourt at this point. Sorry if that upsets you. I am getting Stanley Johnson vibes from Hayes at this point. All the potential and no improvement.

Agreed man....the kid hasn't figured it out in 67 games (despite being probably the best perimeter defender and best passer on the team) so he's definitely a dud. Should probably waive him at this point.

Based on what I have seen I believe he is a dud. I hope I am wrong. Again, you can continue to have hope in him. Sorry if that opinion offends you.

[MotownMadness]

So hard to stay focused without Cade. I had this game on and never even looked up from my phone lol

[Homelander87]

Just….keep…..losing

[Manocad]

And a lot of us aren't silly enough to think that Grant won't continue to push his "I'm the #1 option"/iso ball agenda which is why defenses collapse on him and render him an inefficient scorer. The difference is you picked THIS GAME to criticize Hayes as bad when he had a really good game, while those of us criticizing Grant are doing so in a game he deserved to be criticized for, and for doing the same things he's always done.

Dude, stopping ignoring what I am saying just because you are wrong. I already said Hayes had a great game. I am not criticizing him based on this game. I was just talking about Hayes in general and I have made that very clear already. He played great today. He has been pure hot garbage almost every other game.

Stop ignoring what I, and many others, have been saying just because you're wrong. Grant wanting to be here doesn't mean that he should be allowed to play the way he wants to play even if it's detrimental to the team, and that we as fans should overlook it. I'll use your same logic--it's not just this game causing us to criticize Grant. It's this one on top of many others, even before Cade came along.

And don't forget that Weaver announced right off the bat when he signed Grant that it's possible he could be flipped as a trade asset. At no time did Weaver ever explicitly state or even imply that Grant was a long term part of the Pistons future so we all just needed to suck it up. So we're not sucking it up. Some of think the best thing moving forward since Cade is clearly the building block of this team is to move on from Grant.