12/12/25 - Hawks @ Pistons - 7PM ET

[bstein14]

Hawks were willing to make it a sign-and-trade and give up a 2nd rounder and cash to get the deal done. Pistons reportedly wanted to just give him MLE $ which was slightly less.

Hawks GM worked together with Langdon in New Orleans... both saw him there in his first few years in the league, and clearly saw the type of work he was putting in to improve himself... they traded him for CJ McCollum which at the time was seen as a good "win now" move as they were trying to establish a winning team around Zion.

If I recall correctly, the Pistons operated as an over the cap team so all they would've been able to pay was the MLE. The reason the Hawks were able to pay more was because they used a trade exception, not the MLE, to sign and trade (for) him.

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That is correct, they had the option to operate as an under the cap team but I think they had more options as an over the cap team, including not renouncing the "non bird rights" they hold on Beasley.... which still allows them to sign him for $7.2 million this season.

[bstein14]

We are 20-5 which is great, but also impressive is that in our 5 losses only one team all year has beat us by 5 or more points... the other 4 losses have all been by 4 points or fewer.

[Rip32]

We owe Boston an ass whooping

[DetroitSho]

Hawks were willing to make it a sign-and-trade and give up a 2nd rounder and cash to get the deal done. Pistons reportedly wanted to just give him MLE $ which was slightly less.

Hawks GM worked together with Langdon in New Orleans... both saw him there in his first few years in the league, and clearly saw the type of work he was putting in to improve himself... they traded him for CJ McCollum which at the time was seen as a good "win now" move as they were trying to establish a winning team around Zion.

If I recall correctly, the Pistons operated as an over the cap team so all they would've been able to pay was the MLE. The reason the Hawks were able to pay more was because they used a trade exception, not the MLE, to sign and trade (for) him.

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That is correct, they had the option to operate as an under the cap team but I think they had more options as an over the cap team, including not renouncing the "non bird rights" they hold on Beasley.... which still allows them to sign him for $7.2 million this season.

Yeah I made a post about the Beasley contract possibilities in the Beasley thread.

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[whitehops]

man i could shed a tear with the way these guys were flying around defensively...

Read on Twitter

[VicVinegar]

Man, Ivey doesn't look like the same player. Its almost as if he forget how to dribble. I want to give him time but he looks bad. I just can imagine us not moving him.

I didn't think he was a good player before the surgeries, but now he's a total liability on both ends.. He hardly ever claps for his teammates, sometimes not even getting up. Constantly scowling or an indifferent face at best. There's a lot of things that don't show up in the stat sheet, but he does none of that.

If we were the worst team in the NBA that would be one thing, but we're #1 -- he's not more important than the entire organization.

I'm not worried about the basketball ability yet, coming off an injury, it does take a decent while to get back into shape.

But I agree 100% on the being a poor teammate part, and it's been extremely noticeable and I think the most disappointing thing. It is a night and day difference in attitudes between Ivey and guys like Reed, Jenkins, and Green - other guys who also aren't getting a ton of minutes but still clearly have kept positive attitudes. I questioned it during the 13 game win streak when he wasn't even playing, and was wondering if he was even at the games. Pistons broadcast just knew never to show him because he was always pouting, even after big team moments. He's been through a rough year, so I'll cut him some slack, but now that he's been playing for three weeks and still acting like this, yeah I'm pretty annoyed by it.

I'm not even worried if he never reaches his ceiling. If he were a good teammate, I wouldn't mind him if he were a guy that could add 20-25 minutes off the bench and be productive. But if he's not going to be starter quality AND going to be a "me over the team" guy, then yeah, I'm good with moving on.

Fast forward to the 2:54 mark and Duncan has a wide open three in front of the pistons bench. The ENTIRE bench EXCEPT Ivey stands up. He just sits and sulks.

Watch on YouTube

;t=183s

[VicVinegar]

NBA record 12 players with at least seven points. The worst shooter on the team was Javonte Green at 3/7. He and Tobias (4/9) were the only Pistons to shoot under .500. That's kind of nutty. The depth really stood out this game.

[MortSahlfan]

I remember wanting NAW as our free agent target in the summer. Can y'all imagine having him in the place of Levert?

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I was thinking about that tonight

Same.

Dec 15th is coming up shortly. I don't see any AD type of trade, but I do see a minor trade probably happening before the deadline.

[MortSahlfan]

Man, Ivey doesn't look like the same player. Its almost as if he forget how to dribble. I want to give him time but he looks bad. I just can imagine us not moving him.

I didn't think he was a good player before the surgeries, but now he's a total liability on both ends.. He hardly ever claps for his teammates, sometimes not even getting up. Constantly scowling or an indifferent face at best. There's a lot of things that don't show up in the stat sheet, but he does none of that.

If we were the worst team in the NBA that would be one thing, but we're #1 -- he's not more important than the entire organization.

I'm not worried about the basketball ability yet, coming off an injury, it does take a decent while to get back into shape.

But I agree 100% on the being a poor teammate part, and it's been extremely noticeable and I think the most disappointing thing. It is a night and day difference in attitudes between Ivey and guys like Reed, Jenkins, and Green - other guys who also aren't getting a ton of minutes but still clearly have kept positive attitudes. I questioned it during the 13 game win streak when he wasn't even playing, and was wondering if he was even at the games. Pistons broadcast just knew never to show him because he was always pouting, even after big team moments. He's been through a rough year, so I'll cut him some slack, but now that he's been playing for three weeks and still acting like this, yeah I'm pretty annoyed by it.

I'm not even worried if he never reaches his ceiling. If he were a good teammate, I wouldn't mind him if he were a guy that could add 20-25 minutes off the bench and be productive. But if he's not going to be starter quality AND going to be a "me over the team" guy, then yeah, I'm good with moving on.

Fast forward to the 2:54 mark and Duncan has a wide open three in front of the pistons bench. The ENTIRE bench EXCEPT Ivey stands up. He just sits and sulks.

Watch on YouTube

;t=183s

Exactly.... I can't tell you how many times I see that. We're the #1 team in the East. We had the worst season ever two years ago. Negative vibes isn't conducive to winning a title. Isiah Thomas said it best - "It has nothing to do with basketball".. It's wanting what's best for the team, and I never saw that.. I saw a guy cry his way out of Sacramento drafting him. And when he did PR damage, the best he could say was, "Well, being drafted by Sacramento wouldn't be the WORST thing ever".

The Pistons play better without him. On both ends. Eye test or w/l record... For me, it's about what's best for the team, not one guy. My loyalty is to the Pistons.

[Neptune]

Good team win! Good way to start the weekend

[Kilo]

Ivey is the Allan Houston to Cade's Grant Hill.

[bstein14]

7 of our 8 remaining games in 2025 are on the road, including a 5 game west coast road trip that takes us through the end of December.

I think this 8 game stretch will be really telling where we are. I know we're playing against a lot of lottery teams, but we start it against the Celtics in Boston and finish it against the Lakers in LA.

We've only lost 1 game in December so far (That Bucks game might have been the low point loss of the season with Giannis having gone down).... and I don't think its unrealistic for us to go out and win 7 of our next 8 games. Boston might be the biggest challenge for us until we play the Lakers to finish out that road trip.

[Cowology]

NBA record 12 players with at least seven points. The worst shooter on the team was Javonte Green at 3/7. He and Tobias (4/9) were the only Pistons to shoot under .500. That's kind of nutty. The depth really stood out this game.

Didn't know about the record, but it definitely stood out when I was looking at the box score. *Everybody* contributed positively.

[NYPiston]

This might be a bit of a controversial statement but the Pistons are better when Cade takes less shots and the bench guys get more minutes. Don't get me wrong, Cade is a star and is the centerpiece of all this but the Pistons REAL strength is their depth and they're better when they utilize the depth.

[NYPiston]

Hard no to AD.

That's pretty obvious, I can't think of anybody who thinks this is a good idea. I can't imagine that Langdon is going big fish hunting anyway.

[tmorgan]

This might be a bit of a controversial statement but the Pistons are better when Cade takes less shots and the bench guys get more minutes. Don't get me wrong, Cade is a star and is the centerpiece of all this but the Pistons REAL strength is their depth and they're better when they utilize the depth.

Yes and no.

The bench tends to get in earlier and play longer when the starters are effective.

But I do agree that we look better when Cade shoots less. Thing is, he shoots more in tight games (which we’ve had a ton of), primarily because others aren’t hitting or seem tentative. Many nights it seems like the only regular rotation players whose balls have dropped are Cade and Crazy Ron.

[Cowology]

This might be a bit of a controversial statement but the Pistons are better when Cade takes less shots and the bench guys get more minutes. Don't get me wrong, Cade is a star and is the centerpiece of all this but the Pistons REAL strength is their depth and they're better when they utilize the depth.

I think you need to look at the context. When the bench plays *this* well, it *allows* Cade to do less. There are plenty of times the bench is given opportunity without Cade and they struggle to score.

This was a great effort and everybody played well. I think we'd all like to see that continue. Cade playing less and carrying less of the load is something most people want to see, but we're a loooong way from showing we can do this consistently.

[DetroitSho]

This might be a bit of a controversial statement but the Pistons are better when Cade takes less shots and the bench guys get more minutes. Don't get me wrong, Cade is a star and is the centerpiece of all this but the Pistons REAL strength is their depth and they're better when they utilize the depth.

I think you need to look at the context. When the bench plays *this* well, it *allows* Cade to do less. There are plenty of times the bench is given opportunity without Cade and they struggle to score.

This was a great effort and everybody played well. I think we'd all like to see that continue. Cade playing less and carrying less of the load is something most people want to see, but we're a loooong way from showing we can do this consistently.

Yeah it's a classic case of chicken and the egg. With the bench playing better he doesn't have to shoot as much. Cade didn't play the last quarter and a half yesterday because the bench continued to extend the lead.

Cade does most of his damage in the 4th quarter so had that game been even within 10-12 points you would've saw him come back in and probably get up another 5-7 shots up to slam the door shut.

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[NYPiston]

]I think you need to look at the context. When the bench plays *this* well, it *allows* Cade to do less. There are plenty of times the bench is given opportunity without Cade and they struggle to score.

This was a great effort and everybody played well. I think we'd all like to see that continue. Cade playing less and carrying less of the load is something most people want to see, but we're a loooong way from showing we can do this consistently.

I'll clarify. I don't like when JB shortens the bench and hard plays the starters, it kind of mitigates the Pistons strength which is their depth and creating mismatches against teams that aren't as deep. I think when he leans heavily on the starters it not only takes minutes away from capable bench players but it also wears down the starters so we see struggles in late game situations and lots of turnovers due partly to fatigue. I get it, it's a hard coaching job in a way when you have 11-12 very capable players but JB needs to strike a balance here and he largely has but I've also seen him stray from it at times.

It's a minor gripe. The team is 20-5 and looking strong but I'm just looking at it from a long term perspective and going down the playoff stretch keeping guys fresh and engaged.