'Nasty News - Traversing Time & Space' Vol: 42

[nasty daddy]

http://www.nba.com/pistons/chat_mailbox ... ilbag.html

Andrew (Temperance, Mich.): So we gave up Billups, McDyess, Wallace and Herrmann for Ben Gordon, Charlie V and some draft picks? Can you explain how that improves our roster? I’m a Pistons fan until the day I die, but this is not what I thought would happen after getting rid of our team leader and best closer. Give me some hope.

Langlois: As soon as Arnie Kander tells Joe Dumars he’s invented a tonic that will keep players 30 forever, then such tough decisions wouldn’t have to be made, Andrew. But the players you cited – Billups (33 when next season starts), McDyess (35) and Wallace (35) – either were already showing signs of slippage or soon would be. Better to sever ties to aging players one year too soon, as the axiom goes, than one year too late. Gordon’s 26 and Villanueva is 24 and they’ll still be in their prime when the five-year contracts they’ll sign this summer will expire. It gives the Pistons two more valuable pieces to add to what they have and gives them a real chance to position themselves for title runs in the near future. Besides, to say they “traded” Wallace is inaccurate. He’s a free agent. The Pistons had to renounce his rights to clear cap space, but that doesn’t preclude them from signing him.

[nasty daddy]

http://www.nba.com/pistons/chat_mailbox ... ilbag.html

Andy (Ann Arbor, Mich.): Which power forward would you prefer if you were the GM of the Pistons – Charlie Villanueva, Paul Millsap or David Lee?

Langlois: They each do some things better than the other two. Lee’s two years older at 26 and might have a little less room for growth than the others, but he’s also the most athletic. His numbers were impressive last year, but some of that – maybe a significant part of that – is the dearth of frontcourt talent the Knicks had and an offensive system that inflated everyone’s numbers. Millsap was terrific as the stand-in for Carlos Boozer, but there is some question remaining about his ability to sustain that level of productivity as a full-time starter. Villanueva has shuttled between starting and coming off the bench, but the one thing he’s always been able to do is put up points. He’s not a great defender, but neither is Lee. Millsap? Haven’t seen enough of him to gauge his ability to defend away from the lane and he’s really closer to 6-foot-6 than 6-foot-8.

[nasty daddy]

http://www.nba.com/pistons/chat_mailbox ... ilbag.html

Mac (Birmingham, Ala.): Any way the Pistons can sign Villanueva, Millsap and Gordon? Is McDyess a goner? After Utah stole Okur from the Pistons, it would be sweet justice to get Millsap.

Langlois: Not unless they find a way to dump salaries off, Mac. Even if Kwame Brown had opted out, I don’t know that they would have had enough room for those three, though it might have been close. And the great unknown is how high the offer to Millsap would have to be to scare Utah off? I don’t really think a deal that starts at $8 million a year – and as much as I think of Millsap, that’s a deal that could come back to haunt a team – would make the Jazz blink. As for McDyess, too soon to tell. We’ll find out once we see what the teams committed to spending their mid-level exceptions are thinking. If they’re lining up to offer the full MLE to McDyess, then I think the Pistons won’t have enough left over to be a bidder.

[nasty daddy]

http://www.nba.com/pistons/chat_mailbox ... ilbag.html

Brent (Oxford, Mich.): Not sure how the rules work on free agency. Could the Pistons sign Villanueva and then package him in a trade with Prince for Chris Bosh? If so, it seems like that might be what it takes to convince Toronto to trade.

Langlois: OK, you asked for it. Buckle up. It’s gonna be a bumpy ride. The short answer: no. You can’t sign a free agent and then turn around and trade him. The earliest they could trade a free agent they sign this summer is Dec. 15. But trading a free agent signed this summer before a year is up is tricky because he’s considered a “base-year compensation” player. That means that for the purposes of working a trade, his salary-cap figure is either whatever his old salary was or 50 percent of his new salary – whichever is greater. Villanueva made about $3.5 million with Milwaukee last season and the first year of his new contract figures to be about double, so it’ll be close to a wash on which number would be used. What it means, essentially, is that the Pistons would have to throw in another $12 million in salary plus Villanueva to equal Bosh’s contract. And that means, yeah, either Prince or Hamilton plus Villanueva for Bosh – who might give you one-half a season and walk to Cleveland to be LeBron James’ sidekick.

[nasty daddy]

http://www.nba.com/pistons/chat_mailbox ... ilbag.html

T.J. (Kalamazoo, Mich.): Since Boston didn’t give Leon Powe a qualifying offer, what are the chances of the Pistons signing him on the cheap due to his rehab? He’d be a great addition to the frontcourt.

Langlois: Powe’s going to wind up somewhere and probably beat the odds again. I’m sure Boston would love to have him back, but as a team with major cap problems prudence dictated their decision to hold back on a QO, hoping that his cloudy medical situation would scare away other suitors so they can sign him to a minimum deal for next season. I love Powe – first time I heard about him, he was still in high school and an assistant coach for Maryland, competing in the Final Four that year, was raving about the kid and hoped to land him in recruiting – but he’s now had three ACL tears. That has to give you pause if you’re a GM thinking about giving him the contract he otherwise would deserve, which would be something at least around $3 million a year.

[nasty daddy]

http://www.nba.com/pistons/chat_mailbox ... ilbag.html

Lisa (Gaylord, Mich.): Would signing Grant Hill as a backup for Tay be something the Pistons might look into?

Langlois: If Hill said he wanted to come here and would take whatever Joe D has left in free agency after landing his big fish for the future, I’m sure it would be something that would interest them. But it’s hard to see Hill settling for a minor role. He played 30 minutes a game and played all 82 last season. With Gordon apparently now in the fold, meaning Hamilton will be getting some minutes at small forward, there’s simply no set role left for Hill – or at least not one that would keep him from a better offer elsewhere.

[nasty daddy]

http://www.nba.com/pistons/chat_mailbox ... ilbag.html

George (Detroit): Did we already buy out Oberto or could we use his contract to facilitate trades?

Langlois: He was bought out. The Pistons had to do it before July 1 or his contract would have become fully guaranteed.

[nasty daddy]

http://www.nba.com/pistons/chat_mailbox ... ilbag.html

Dan (Rockford, Mich.): Can you tell me whatever happened to the other guard many people thought we should have drafted rather than Stuckey? The scoop on him was that he was a pure shooter and we shouldn’t pass him up.

Langlois: You must be referring to Nick Young, one of four players the Pistons had zeroed in on in the weeks leading up to the 2007 draft. Two of them, Thaddeus Young and Al Thornton, were off the board when the Pistons picked at 15. They took Stuckey. Young went next to Washington. He averaged 10.9 points in 22 minutes a game for Washington last season, but the Wizards went ahead and traded the No. 5 pick in the draft for two guards to Minnesota, Randy Foye and Mike Miller, who are going to make it tough for Young to get major minutes next season, especially with a healthy Gilbert Arenas due to return.

[nasty daddy]

http://www.nba.com/pistons/news/truebluepistons.html

Reality Check: Responses to the week that was
To that slice of fans that bought the hysterical projections that the Chauncey Billups trade was going to somehow allow the Pistons to lure LeBron James and a sidekick – Chris Bosh, perhaps, or maybe Dwyane Wade – as their free-agent haul, news that Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva rushed to Detroit on the first available flight once talks could begin left them a little flat.

It’s also spawned wildly divergent analyses, speculation and reaction, much of it centering on Joe Dumars’ track record in his nine years as Pistons president after a week that included the draft, a coaching change and the most significant agreements yet in free agency. Here’s a smattering of what I’ve read and heard – and my responses, for the sake of clarification or rebuttal.

[nasty daddy]

http://www.nba.com/pistons/news/truebluepistons.html

Joe Dumars changes coaches too often
Response: It amazes me that the prism through which people view coaching changes hasn’t changed in the last 30 years despite revolutionary changes in the culture of sports over that time. Some coaching hires are flat-out mistakes best remedied as soon as possible. Others just see the coach-player relationship fray to the point that the connective tissue is best severed cleanly before it snaps and causes collateral damage.

Hiring a coach isn’t like exchanging marriage vows. You know going in that it’s an arrangement that will last for as long as the relationship dynamic remains healthy. But it’s a dynamic that’s far more volatile now than it was a generation ago. The reasons are varied, but a big one is the money players make today. It tilts the balance of power their way. It shortens the life expectancy of coaches. Eventually, it gets ’em all. Even Phil Jackson had to step out in LA for a while.

Look around the league. The coaching carousel spins pretty much everywhere. If you can find one that lasts five years these days, you’ve hit a grand slam.

[nasty daddy]

http://www.nba.com/pistons/news/truebluepistons.html

Joe D is a good GM, but he drafts poorly
Response: Oh, puh-leeze. The first thing to understand is that the NBA draft is a different animal than the NFL, NHL or baseball’s. I blogged about it in May, based on a comment I saw from New Jersey Nets president Rod Thorn: “Here’s how I look at it. In the top 10, there will be three guys who are really good. And two or three guys who are never better than rotation players. Between 10 and 20, there will be two guys who turn out to be very good NBA players. And between 21 and 30, there will be one very good player.”

looked it up and catalogued several years’ worth of drafts. Thorn is pretty close. First-round draft choices are just as likely to be washouts as really good players and about twice as likely to just be another guy. The deeper you go in the draft, the likelier it is that you’re drafting someone who’ll never leave a mark. People bring up Mateen Cleaves as a draft mistake. Go back and look at that draft. Cleaves went 14th. Five players taken ahead of him are out of the league completely. Only two are starters. Not one is an All-Star. The players who went before and after him? Courtney Alexander and Jason Collier. The only way to avoid making a mistake in that draft was to trade out of it. Darko’s the elephant in the room, of course. But nobody would have taken Chris Bosh or Dwyane Wade over Darko back then. Nobody. And a significant majority would have taken Darko over Carmelo – even Denver, which had Carmelo fall into its lap.

Not many teams can say they drafted consistently in the 20s for the past decade and have three players the quality of Tayshaun Prince (and go back and look at how lousy that draft was), Jason Maxiell and Arron Afflalo to show for it. The Darko mistake was turned into Rodney Stuckey. Cleaves was turned into Jon Barry and a No. 1. Rodney White became a No. 1 that was used in the Rasheed Wallace trade. Far fewer people affect an NBA game than an NFL, NHL or baseball game. So far fewer impact players are found in each draft. They have two rounds in the NBA draft – as opposed to seven in the NFL and a bazillion in the NHL and baseball – because even second-rounders are long shots to carve out a meaningful career. Bottom line: NBA GMs should be judged like baseball hitters. If they’re batting .300, they’re beating the average.

[nasty daddy]

http://www.nba.com/pistons/news/truebluepistons.html

Joe Dumars should have saved his cap space for 2010
Response: Dwyane Wade is going to stay in Miami – unless the lure of returning to his hometown Bulls overwhelms him. LeBron James is going to stay in Cleveland – unless the Knicks clear enough cap space to woo him and another max-type free agent. Chris Bosh is either going to become wing man for Wade or James or head home to Texas.

What else is really out there and really realistic? Amare Stoudemire? Carlos Boozer? Both coming off injury-plagued season but both still young and really talented. Still: They want the kind of money that the Pistons just split into two parts and gave to Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva, which represents 37 points a game.

You can argue the merits of guys like Boozer or Stoudemire and what it would mean to the future of a franchise to pay them the same kind of money as James and Wade are going to get, but understand this: Half the league, 15 teams or so, have positioned themselves to have cap space next summer. Probably a dozen of them are going to wind up wishing they had an option as remotely attractive as spending their cap space on Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva.

[nasty daddy]

http://www.nba.com/pistons/news/truebluepistons.html

Joe Dumars overspent for Gordon and Villanueva
Response: Time will tell. But he’s got one huge thing going for him with regard to both contracts: Gordon and Villanueva are both young, 26 and 24. At no point in the five-year terms of their deals will they be on the downside of their careers. At no point in the terms of their deals do they figure to become hard to trade (assuming no severe injury concerns). That’s a huge consideration. That’s what I would have feared with a Hedo Turkoglu signing. Turkoglu, at 30, might have played his best basketball. That’s a scary realization when you find out in training camp, with five years of an annual eight-figure contract still to pay off. Imagine how Chicago Bulls brass felt in the fall of 2006 when it was clear that the Ben Wallace they’d just committed $60 million and four years to was not the player who’d terrorized them over his six seasons with the Pistons?

The Bulls wound up having to take on somebody else’s damaged goods in order to get that contract off their books. If Gordon is going to make $11 million a year, as reports indicate, sure, that’s a nice chunk of change. But I know this: The list of people who make $11 million or more is longer than the list of players who average 20 points a game. Gordon’s on both lists. And if you figure his contract on a dollars-per-point basis, he comes out as one of the best bargains on the list.

Villanueva could prove to be a steal. At 24, with his size and scoring touch from all three levels, there would appear to be plenty of room for growth. But if Charlie V gives the Pistons what he gave Milwaukee last season – 16 points and 7 boards, and all of that in just 27 minutes a game – that’s great production for the estimated $7.5 million per season that’s been reported.There. I now yield the floor. I’ll take it back tomorrow sometime. For those heading out of town for the Fourth and leaving their computers behind, be safe and have fun. If there’s any coaching news to talk about, you know where to find me.

[nasty daddy]

http://blog.mlive.com/fullcourtpress/20 ... for_i.html

Gordon in a sign-and-trade for Iverson?
Ken Berger of CBS Sports has been pretty busy the last couple days. He's broke some pretty big signings, the latest of which are Ron Artest to the Lakers and now Trevor Ariza to the Rockets. Now he is reporting that the Bulls and Pistons may work out a sign and trade between Ben Gordon and Allen Iverson.

Ben Gordon to the Pistons is a done deal. The method by which he will get there is still under discussion. CBSSports.com has learned that the Bulls and Pistons may yet revisit Detroit's agreement with Ben Gordon and instead investigate a sign-and-trade that would send Allen Iverson to Chicago. Discussions have not yet reached the highest levels of both organizations, but the revised look at how Gordon goes from Chicago to Detroit would benefit Gordon and the Bulls. Gordon would get an extra year, and thus more money, by signing with the Bulls and getting traded. The Bulls, who currently are getting nothing for losing him, would get Iverson -- a fading future Hall of Famer who would get to finish his career in a major market as long as he's willing to accept a secondary role. It's a farfetched scenario, and not everyone involved would be on board -- particularly the Pistons. The major sticking point would be how to sweeten the deal for Detroit, which would only consider such an option if it would provide significant cap savings. The Pistons took themselves out of the 2010 free-agent sweepstakes by agreeing to terms with Gordon and Charlie Villanueva on the first day of the free-agent negotiating period. Those agreements are not binding until July 8, when the league-mandated moratorium is lifted and the league and players association agree on the salary cap and luxury tax for the 2009-10 season. A person familiar with the situation said the Pistons would flat-out refuse to entertain a sign-and-trade for Gordon unless it provided significant savings. The Bulls, too, may not be eager to do business with Gordon, whose agent did not give the team a chance to match Detroit's offer.

Going through the scenarios, I'm not sure there is one that would benefit the Pistons enough for them to consider a sign and trade with the Bulls, or at least one that the Bulls would also consider. Chicago would have to give up something they may not want to part with in order to entice the Pistons to agree to any kind of deal. A first round pick or a defensive big man would get the attention of the Pistons, but seem to be a bit much for the Bulls to give up. On the other hand, if the Bulls would take on another salary or two(Kwame Brown, Walter Sharpe) the Pistons could gain about $5 million more in cap space. That would allow the Pistons to sign a third free agent to go along with Gordon and Villanueva. Far fetched might be a good word for Berger to use but he seems to be in touch with the pulse of the league lately, so maybe Piston fans should keep an eye on this. Stay tuned...

[nasty daddy]

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/ ... iston.html

No coach, no problem for Pistons' Joe Dumars when it comes to reeling in free-agent targets
The Detroit Pistons were able to land their top two targets (Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva) on the first day of free agency. That's pretty good. To do so without a head coach in place? Now, that's impressive, but not all that surprising to some player agents who have dealt with the Pistons in recent years. And the reason? Joe Dumars, the Pistons' president of basketball operations. "Joe has done a great job there in Detroit," said Tony Dutt, who represents a number of free agents including Brandon Bass. "It's not a situation in Detroit where them not having a head coach in place would be a problem." Another agent, Andy Miller, echoed a similar sentiment. "It all depends on the GM. Joe has created a culture there that, regardless of who the coach is, you know as a free agent how it's going to be in Detroit," Miller said. "And you know whoever the coach is, if he is not on the same page as Joe, he's not going to be there very long."

Dumars is on the verge of hiring his sixth head coach since he was hired in 2000."The one thing you know about Joe; he's committed to winning," said Dutt, who also is a consultant to Avery Johnson, the odds-on favorite to be named the Pistons' next head coach. "That's an important thing to free agents." So is money, which may become an issue for Detroit as it tries to add at least one more player to its roster via free agency. While Antonio McDyess appears to be their top choice, the Pistons will have $3-4 million to spend on McDyess once the official salary cap figures are released next week. Teams such as Boston, Cleveland, Houston and San Antonio also are interested and likely will offer McDyess more money."Antonio is in no hurry to make a decision," said Miller, his agent. "Of course he wants to see how the coaching search turns out in Detroit.

But Antonio, he knows what's there in Detroit. At this point, he's just going to take his time and look at all his options and see what's best for him and his family."If McDyess doesn't return, look for Detroit to focus more on Bass, who played the past two seasons for the Dallas Mavericks. In addition to Detroit, Orlando and New Orleans have shown interest in the former LSU star. Bass, 24, is expected to receive an offer that will eat up most or all of a team's mid-level exception.If Detroit can't land him, it will look at other free agent options as well as the big men on its summer league team, which begins play next week.

[nasty daddy]

http://apps.detnews.com/apps/blogs/pist ... logid=1921

Tying up loose ends
I have seen some crazy reports across the world wide Web the past 48 hours or so. I have seen Ben Gordon''s contract offer from the Pistons reported as high as $60 million. Unless there are some incentive clauses I don''t know about, the total value of the deal should fall just short of $55 million. He will start at $9 million next season. Charlie Villanueva''s deal will start at $6 million and is for $35 million over five years, not $40 million.Also, I saw a report that the Bulls never made an offer to Gordon. That is true, technically. Here''s what happened: The Pistons made their offer Wednesday and before agreeing to it, Gordon''s agent, Raymond Brothers, went back to the Bulls. Presumably, he asked if they wanted to match the offer and got an immediate answer of no. The Bulls couldn''t clear that much money. So, yes, there was no offer from Chicago, but it was given a chance to get back into the bidding. Not a big deal, but facts is facts, as they say.

About Doug Collins: Man, there has been a ton of misinformation out there. There is absolutely no way Collins ever, ever, ever contacted Joe Dumars about the coaching job before Michael Curry was fired. I promise you, on my kids'' trust funds (good luck finding those), Collins never would do that. He wouldn''t do that to a coach he didn''t know let alone a guy who he considers his son. Remember, it was Collins who brought Curry into the league and gave him his first guaranteed contract. Collins has been a mentor and friend to Curry''s since 1995, if not before that. So, for him to campaign for Curry''s job while Curry still had it -- nope. Never.

Last thing: I am sitting here wondering how ESPN is claiming it broke the news on Collins withdrawing his name from consideration for the Pistons coaching job. I know you guys out there don''t really care who breaks stories, but my lord. Detnews.com posted my story before midnight. The ESPN story went up, best I can tell, around 3 a.m. I had quotes from Collins, so obviously, I talked to him. So, if we had it up three hours earlier, how is the news "according to ESPN?" It''s a mystery.

[nasty daddy]

http://apps.detnews.com/apps/blogs/pist ... logid=1922

Charlie V''s tweet
In case you care about this stuff, here are Charlie Villanueva''s latest twitter postings:

"Deeeeeeetrooooooiiiiittttttt basketballllllllllllll"
"Only 3 hour away from my family in Burlington Ontario, and Toronto, Love you CJ"
"Well I''m a Piston, long day yesterday, but got it done, God is good"

There you go, tweeter heads. Who says I am old school?

[nasty daddy]

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2009 ... for-Lakers

Ron Artest: I'm off to play for Lakers
Ron Artest is joining the Lakers. David Bauman, Artest's agent, told the Associated Press on Thursday night Artest, a Rockets forward, has verbally agreed to play for the NBA champions next season. Bauman said the final details are still being worked out.

Artest agreed to terms of about $18 million over three years, the Los Angeles Times said. He earned $7.4 million in his only season with Houston, averaging 17.1 points, 5.2 rebounds and 3.3 assists.

Meanwhile, forward Trevor Ariza agreed to a five-year deal with the Rockets for about $33 million, roughly the same amount the Lakers had offered in their effort to retain him, the Times said.

[nasty daddy]

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2009 ... for-Lakers

Celtics court 'Sheed
The Celtics are putting a full-court press on free-agent Pistons forward Rasheed Wallace . Ray Allen , Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce joined president of basketball operations Danny Ainge and managing partner Wyc Grousbeck for a three-hour meeting with Wallace in Detroit on Thursday, the Celtics offering a contract, the Boston Globe reported.

But Wallace is apparently in no hurry to respond, preferring to weigh approaches from Charlotte, Cleveland, Orlando, and San Antonio, according to an NBA source.

[nasty daddy]

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2009 ... for-Lakers

Shaquille O'Neal has one purpose in Cleveland: Bring an NBA title to LeBron James and the Cavaliers.

"My motto is very simple," said O'Neal, a 15-time All-Star center. "Win a ring for the King."

Acquired in a trade last week with the Suns, O'Neal was introduced by the Cavaliers.